Lead, Asbestos, K&T, and bears oh my!

Lead, Asbestos, K&T, and bears oh my!

Pepperell, MA · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 0 votes

Hi BP!

I'm a new investor in the Massachusetts area and I'm curious as to if any of you have experienced a similar situation as the one I am going through right now. I have noticed in my search for an investment property that much of the inventory in the Massachusetts area consists of older properties. Personally, I love the intricate details and quaint ornaments that were an integral part in the construction in the 1900's, however, I'm not particularly fond of the fact that the technology utilized in these apartments don't quite cut it now-a-days. 

I am in the process of purchasing a 3-family home. Each unit is 1200SF and has 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, a kitchen, dining room, and a living room, with complete access to the basement. It's in a good area, the rent demand is good with promising comparables, and my purchase price less improvements is around 75% of ARV (which I'm happy with as I will be buying and holding). It is currently vacant except for the owner with the contingency that it will be vacant when I purchase it (I get to choose my own tenants). I have money budgeted for the repairs. The purchase price has been accepted and the inspection is scheduled for this week. I have the option to back out if I find anything that I'm not expecting. The P&S is to come next week and the closing isn't for another month and a half (the owner needed more time to move out).

My issues are the following: 

Lead Paint: I'm assuming that the house has lead paint as it has hardly been touched since it was built in 1900. The house has never been inspected for lead paint, and what I can understand from the law is that if it has not been inspected it is "free game" to gut any trim / windowsills etc that might contain lead paint myself and not hire a licensed lead abatement company. This seems like a loophole in the system and I would hate to get hit with a huge fine by working around the law, however, the costs for lead abatement is huge and I'd rather mitigate any future risks and operating costs by completely eliminating the lead rather than just encapsulating it and handing a waiver to my tenants. Thoughts?

Asbestos: I plan on replacing the (3) old oil-fired steam boiler systems with newer higher efficiency natural gas burners with conventional baseboard (steam conversion). It appears as the steam pipes are wrapped in asbestos insulation in the basement, and I'm wondering if wrapping the insulation is sufficient in terms of lawsuit risk as long as I restrict access to these areas to tenants.

Knob & Tube Wiring: I also plan on providing electrical resiliency and fire protection by replacing the existing Knob & Tube wiring. Here's where it gets tricky; I'm using a masshousing loan to finance the property and I'm also worried about the insurance falling through. From what I've read it sounds as if insurance companies will not cover properties with this type of wiring. Has anyone experienced a situation like this? I'm wondering if there is a possibility that the lender and insurance provider can still give me commitment with a contingency that I fix the electrical within 30 days after closing.

I'm sure most of these questions are positioned for a real estate attorney, but it would be helpful to hear if anyone has experienced some of the same hurtles that I have and could provide me with some insight. 

Thanks!

-Ryan

0Reply
48 views

Most Popular Reply

Wayland, MA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 18 votes
9y

Ryan I would recommend performing a MAss Save energy assessment on this building. There are rebates and 0% loans available for knob and tube and asbestos remediation as well as new heating systems. They can also pay up to 90% to insulate the building if it needs it. Unfortunately though they will not schedule the assessment until you own the house and the utilities are in your name or your new tenants name. 

See this reply in the discussion

11 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    All problems can be solved.

    1.  The old moldings certainly have lead based paint.  As long as they are painted over and encapsulated with modern paint, you should be fine.  There are special paints that are suggested for painting over old lead based paint.   Check your properties regularly to make sure the paint is not chipping anywhere.

    2.  The asbestos wrapping will need to be removed for sure.  On this post, I will have to suggest that you hire an asbestos remediation company to remove it.   Not the end of the world.  

    3.   Knob and Tube wiring.  Hire an electrician to modernize the wiring throughout the house.   I realize that some of the wiring cannot easily be replaced.  But the knob and tube is often exposed in the attic.  Replace panel boxes that are over 30 years old.   Change ungrounded outlets.  Pull new wires where possible.  Put GFI outlets in kitchen and bathroom areas, outside areas and in garages.

    Since you are buying this, you probably had an inspection.  Ask for a credit for some of these items.  

  • Auburndale, MA · Member since 2016 · 12 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Ryan, I bought a triplex in Worcester this spring w K &T. We were able to get the property insured but needed to replace the electrical by August. We accepted a bid from an electrician and because it is now 'in process', the insurance company is giving us until January 1 to complete the work. I think the forums will be great to increase your knowledge on all the topics but you should talk w a lawyer. The forums will ensure you are asking the right questions. Good luck Colby
  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Asbestos removal isn't that big of a cost... call around and get some quotes so that's all done when they take the furnaces out.. asbestos guys removed our furnace and the asbestos all in one day,, and the furnace guy came out prior and marked where he wanted the pipes cut so install would go smoothly.

    Personally if the furnaces are working, not leaking, I would leave them and replace as needed. the pipes are wrapped now and shouldn't be a issue. 

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Asbestos removal isn't that big of a cost... call around and get some quotes so that's all done when they take the furnaces out.. asbestos guys removed our furnace and the asbestos all in one day,, and the furnace guy came out prior and marked where he wanted the pipes cut so install would go smoothly.

    Personally if the furnaces are working, not leaking, I would leave them and replace as needed. the pipes are wrapped now and shouldn't be a issue. 

    Wiring,,, yes,, I'd plan on re-wiring,, we recently transferred ownership between family members, and the house was 1915 construction,, has some original knob & tube wiring and a fuse box with fuses,, the current insurance company we had wanted photo of the fuse box,, they said they would write the policy this year but would require update before next years policy is reissued. we've had insurance with this same agent for over 30 years..   

  • Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Walker

    Remember to provide tenants with a disclosure statement for CYA.  Its typically required.  Spend a little time on the epa website looking into these things.   I would include radon gas as well on the disclosure.    Some of the asbestos can be removed by the owner but there are limits.  There are probably more items with asbestos then you think in the building.  Other things are: white fabric ductwork tape, vct tiles (9x9), mastic for the tiles, vermiculite insulation to name a few.  If its not friable its typically ok but removal or encapsulating is better.  Same goes for lead paint.  If you are not eating the lead paint people are typically fine.

    https://www.epa.gov/asbestos

    https://www.epa.gov/lead

  • Wayland, MA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 18 votes
    9y

    Ryan I would recommend performing a MAss Save energy assessment on this building. There are rebates and 0% loans available for knob and tube and asbestos remediation as well as new heating systems. They can also pay up to 90% to insulate the building if it needs it. Unfortunately though they will not schedule the assessment until you own the house and the utilities are in your name or your new tenants name. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Westboro, MA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 471 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Walker

    Since you plan on self managing- read up on the landlord tenant laws!
    The knob and tube wiring hopefully can be replaced soon, your best bet is to get quotes for the work 

  • Real Estate Agent · Westboro, MA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 471 votes
    9y

    @Jimmy Seaborg
    MassSave is fantastic! 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Worcester, MA · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Give me a call as soon as you close and get your first National Grid bill and I can get you scheduled for a Mass Save Assessment ASAP! Sounds like a great deal, good job! 

  • Pepperell, MA · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Wow! Thank you for all of the replies. 

    @Brian Ploszay & @Deanna McCormick- Thanks for the helpful insight on things to look over and fix!

    @Account Closed - Mass Save seems like a great option. Thanks for the posts.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Are these upgrades and abatement issues being required by your insurance or mortgage company as condition of closing. If not why mess with a good thing.

    The property has functioned and will continue to function as a rental "as is" assuming you are not being forced to do any work.

    If it is not required you are placing your personal feelings/opinions ahead of smart business decisions.

    The business formula is buy, do only necessary repairs, upgrade only to increase rent, place tenant, earn money.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.