Tenant Rights California: No Hot Water
Rental Property Investor · Temecula, CA · Member since 2016 · 151 posts · 63 votes
Tenant Rights California: No Hot Water
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@Jonathan Safa - I'm not an attorney, but from your post I don't believe the plumbing and gas facilities don't work - they work, the account just hasn't started yet and that's not your landlord's fault.
115 Replies
- Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes8y
This one is going to go in whichever favor the judge is feeling on the day of the trial. If you choose to go that route. It honestly is a real dicey answer. I personally always have problem with utility companies themselves. They are basically monopolies in different areas and have no sense of urgency when issues like this arrive. If there was a way for private companies to deal with issues like this it could be done within 24 hours emergency rate.
@Jonathan Safa, unfortunately I tend to lean on the side that its the tenants responsibility. My reasons are as follows:
-The landlord is not the gas supplier.
-The landlord may not have even been the person who shut the gas off.
-Everything in the house functions as it should, which falls under the landlord's job.
-In almost every jurisdiction, the landlord and tenant, are both not allowed to tamper with the meters or turn their own gas on.
...with that being said, the landlord should not have advised you to play with the meter. He's not thinking that through clearly. That's a crime, to me its like saying go be a crack dealer to pay me rent in hard times. The landlord should have advised you that their is no gas on at the moment so you can delay move in or get those arrangements squared away by the time you move in. To my understanding, that is not required, but to me that falls under common courtesy.
Real world situation - I rented out my condo to someone, we delayed move in until the 15th. I told him at lease signing, he can use the property until the 15th for moving stuff in and getting it set up so he is ready to go by the 15th (I'm an easy going guy). I also advised him that the gas and electric were under my name and I called them and notified them that effective the 15th to terminate my relationship with them and send final bill. I advised the tenant he has to call and notify them that he will take over the gas and eclectic by the 15th so they can covert it over (in NY, this is a simple phone call). Long story short, he didn't call. They shut the gas off and it took two weeks to get back on. My tenant realized this was his fault and I gave him more than two weeks warning. I did not refund any part of his rent.
I know your situation is different and you had no warning, but I don't know why you didn't ask about this before the lease was signed. This is something that should have been brought up when you looked at the place and saw no gas and/or electric. Should he have notified you, I'd say yes. Is he required to notify you, I don't believe so. I'm not a lawyer and the only thing I know about OK is it's very flat but I don't believe you have any legal recourse here or right to with hold rent. In fact, I'm pretty sure a tenant never has any right to withhold rent even if the property is uninhabitable. At least they don't in NY, and if they don't in NYC, a tenant friendly city, I doubt they do any where else.
- Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 4 posts · 1 vote8y
Did you not notice this issue during your move in inspection?
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8y
@Jonathan Safa If the tenant doesnt put them in his name the landlord is stuck , if he turns it off its a self help eviction .
Originally posted by @Shaun C.:
Originally posted by @Joel Florek:
Originally posted by @Shaun C.:
If you signed the lease the same day as move in, I think this is on the landlord. It should be easy for him to come to the conclusion and accept that it is his fault, and offer you some sort of relief. I wouldn't be expecting 100% of your daily rental rate, but at least 50% would be fair.
There should be no pro rated amount for missing some utilities. If a unit is considered uninhabitable due to the landlords fault the tenant shouldn't owe anything. Can I charge someone 20% of rent if there is no heat, water, electric but they have a roof walls and windows? This subject is black and white in my opinion. If the furnace goes out on a Saturday night on a holiday I have to provide my tenants heat so I will have to fork up the double time rates from my HVAC guy. If they cant get there right away or fix it right away I better pay for space heaters so they can keep the home warm. I cant just say hold on and tough it out until Monday afternoon.
Who said anything about no heat, water, and electric? The dude is in Southern California where it's currently 57*. That means he's out hot water and has to wear a t shirt, which is why I said it's more of an inconvenience than being deprived of a necessity.
Hot water is clearly defined as a element to determine if something is habitable
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
This happened to me a long time ago, In Chicago in February.
I scheduled my gas to be turned on on the 27th before I moved in on the first. The gas company came, but the landlord did not provide access to the interior unit so they did not turn it on. They came out the 6th and turned it on.
So for a week I had no heat or hot water and it was less than 20 degrees. It was my fault, not my landlords. and my options were to pay for my own hotel or deal with it.
Never in a million years did I think of withholding rent because of something that was my responsibility.
Second City Real Estate4.821 Reviews You said you signed the lease on the day of move in, which is typical for any leases I've done then you got the key the same day.
However, my tenants have known and been told to call before lease signing day to get things moving along with the utility companies. Was this a spur of the moment choice, or did you know in advance you were getting the place?
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
This happened to me a long time ago, In Chicago in February.
I scheduled my gas to be turned on on the 27th before I moved in on the first. The gas company came, but the landlord did not provide access to the interior unit so they did not turn it on. They came out the 6th and turned it on.
So for a week I had no heat or hot water and it was less than 20 degrees. It was my fault, not my landlords. and my options were to pay for my own hotel or deal with it.
Never in a million years did I think of withholding rent because of something that was my responsibility.
As a landlord why would rent out a unit that isn't habitable? It's common practice to leave utilities on but in the landlords name or PM company during vacancy, then have them switched to the lessee name once the lease starts. Part of providing a habitable unit is hot water and heat, if the gas is disconnected prior to the new service starting and can't start the day of the new lease then the landlord has failed to provide a habitable unit? How could anyone BUT the landlord be responsible for the disconnect prior to the lease?
I didn't say put utilities in your name before the lease is signed. There is a benefit to calling and making sure everything is ready to go if someone doesn't have an established relationship with the local utility companies and finding out what is needed ahead of time.
- Landlord's Responsibilities
California Civil Code section 1941 states that when a landlord rents property to a tenant as a place to live, the property must be in a "habitable" condition. ("Habitable" means fit to live in; "uninhabitable" means not fit to live in.) Section 1941 also states that the landlord must repair problems that make the property uninhabitable – except for problems caused by the tenant or the tenant's guests, children or pets. In order for the property to be habitable, it must have all of the following:
- a) Effective waterproofing and weather protection of roof and exterior walls, including unbroken windows and doors.
- b) Plumbing facilities in good working order, including hot and cold running water, connected to a sewage disposal system.
- c) Gas facilities in good working order.
- d) Heating facilities in good working order.
- e) An electrical system, including lighting, wiring and equipment, in good working order.
- f) Clean and sanitary buildings, grounds and appurtenances (for example, a garden or a detached garage) which are free from debris, filth, rubbish, garbage, rodents and vermin.
- g) Adequate trash receptacles in good repair.
- h) Floors, stairways and railings in good repair.
- In addition, the rented property must have all of the following:
- i) A working toilet, wash basin, and bathtub or shower. The toilet and bathtub/shower must be in a room that is ventilated, and that allows for privacy.
- j) A kitchen with a sink, which cannot be made of an absorbent material (for example, wood).
- k) Natural lighting in every room through windows or skylights. Unless there is a ventilation fan, the windows must be able to open at least halfway.
- l) Safe fire or emergency exits leading to a street or hallway. Stairs, hallways and exits must be kept litter free. Storage areas, garages, and basements must be kept free of combustible materials.
- m) Operable deadbolt locks on the main entry doors of rental units, and operable locking or security devices on windows.
- n) Working smoke detectors in all units of multi-unit buildings, such as duplexes and apartment complexes. Apartment complexes also must have smoke detectors in common stairwells.
These are minimum requirements. Other conditions may make the rented property not habitable. For example, the rented property may not be habitable if it does not substantially comply with building and housing code standards that materially affect tenants' health and safety.
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
This happened to me a long time ago, In Chicago in February.
I scheduled my gas to be turned on on the 27th before I moved in on the first. The gas company came, but the landlord did not provide access to the interior unit so they did not turn it on. They came out the 6th and turned it on.
So for a week I had no heat or hot water and it was less than 20 degrees. It was my fault, not my landlords. and my options were to pay for my own hotel or deal with it.
Never in a million years did I think of withholding rent because of something that was my responsibility.
As a landlord why would rent out a unit that isn't habitable? It's common practice to leave utilities on but in the landlords name or PM company during vacancy, then have them switched to the lessee name once the lease starts. Part of providing a habitable unit is hot water and heat, if the gas is disconnected prior to the new service starting and can't start the day of the new lease then the landlord has failed to provide a habitable unit? How could anyone BUT the landlord be responsible for the disconnect prior to the lease?
I own and manage over 90 units in cold weather areas. If a tenant vacates from April 1 - October 30th when they turn off service it is turned off, and not put in my name. If a tenant vacates from Nov 1 - March 31 the utility company has to come out and verify the unit is vacant to turn off the service (so if a tenant cancels service and does not move it will be billed to me in winter months)
As a landlord, I am renting out a unit that is habitable, if it does not have service on. It is the tenants responsibility to turn on and maintain utilities. If my lease included utilities then it would be my responsibility.
In this case, the OP signed a lease the day of the first, so there was no lead time involved to get the service turned on. It would be totally his right to not move in and not pay rent until the service could be turned on, ie pay for a hotel. But he can't move in and expect to live for free because it is not "habitable" due to his error/responsibility.
Second City Real Estate4.821 Reviews Originally posted by @Lily R.:
I didn't say put utilities in your name before the lease is signed. There is a benefit to calling and making sure everything is ready to go if someone doesn't have an established relationship with the local utility companies and finding out what is needed ahead of time.
That's not the issue here, the issue is the unit had a disconnect prior to the lease. If you're going to lease something and let people sign a lease same day they move in, it's on the landlord to make sure the services are still on. Aside from not renting this place, there's literally nothing this guy could of done because it's on the landlord. The landlord can not rent a place that isn't deemed habitable (which it's very clear means has working gas service/heat/hot water). The gas company not being able to come out for 2wks isn't anyone's but the landlords issue because is renting something that is NOT habitable.
- Earth · Member since 2017 · 297 posts · 187 votes8yI never turn on gas nor water on a vacant unit. I only turn on electricity to show the vacant unit to a prospective tenant. It is the tenant responsibility to turn on all utilities at their move-in. If a tenant don’t need to pay for the rent for the period that the gas is not on, then I would not let the tenants move in early since I don’t get paid on rent. Just have the tenants spend more money on their hotel if they don’t pay for the rent. If a tenant don’t need to pay for the rent for the period that the gas is not on, I need the proof from the tenants that all utilities are on before I hand them the keys.
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
Let's say it's 6 months later and the tenant has not paid his electric/gas bill and his past due balance is so much the utility company turns off his service. Is it the landlord's responsibility to turn it on and pay for it? NO
Is the plumbing in good working order? Yes
Gas in good working order? Yes
Heating in good working order? Yes
Second City Real Estate4.821 Reviews Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
This happened to me a long time ago, In Chicago in February.
I scheduled my gas to be turned on on the 27th before I moved in on the first. The gas company came, but the landlord did not provide access to the interior unit so they did not turn it on. They came out the 6th and turned it on.
So for a week I had no heat or hot water and it was less than 20 degrees. It was my fault, not my landlords. and my options were to pay for my own hotel or deal with it.
Never in a million years did I think of withholding rent because of something that was my responsibility.
As a landlord why would rent out a unit that isn't habitable? It's common practice to leave utilities on but in the landlords name or PM company during vacancy, then have them switched to the lessee name once the lease starts. Part of providing a habitable unit is hot water and heat, if the gas is disconnected prior to the new service starting and can't start the day of the new lease then the landlord has failed to provide a habitable unit? How could anyone BUT the landlord be responsible for the disconnect prior to the lease?
I own and manage over 90 units in cold weather areas. If a tenant vacates from April 1 - October 30th when they turn off service it is turned off, and not put in my name. If a tenant vacates from Nov 1 - March 31 the utility company has to come out and verify the unit is vacant to turn off the service (so if a tenant cancels service and does not move it will be billed to me in winter months)
As a landlord, I am renting out a unit that is habitable, if it does not have service on. It is the tenants responsibility to turn on and maintain utilities. If my lease included utilities then it would be my responsibility.
In this case, the OP signed a lease the day of the first, so there was no lead time involved to get the service turned on. It would be totally his right to not move in and not pay rent until the service could be turned on, ie pay for a hotel. But he can't move in and expect to live for free because it is not "habitable" due to his error/responsibility.
That lead time falls on the landlord, not the tenant. The definition of working order is: a condition of a machine in which it functions according to its nature and purpose. I think we can both agree that the hot water heater purpose is to provide hot water, if it does not (for whatever reason) then it's not in working order.
But I will agree, the remedy for this isn't that he gets to live for free, if anything it's that he's allowed to either deal with it or break his lease w/ no fee/penalty (due to the unit being uninhabitable per CA code).
Before renting a rental unit to a tenant, a landlord must make the unit fit to live in, or habitable. Additionally, while the unit is being rented, the landlord must repair problems that make the rental unit unfit to live in, or uninhabitable.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/problems.shtml
The big obstacle is the 16 days to get it turned on........ even if the tenant had tried to do it, 2/3/5/7 days before he moved in, he would still be TSOL..... and I don't know ANY tenant that is going to try to change over the utilities 16 days before he even signs the lease and moves in. No body....including the landlord..... had any idea it was going to take 16 days for it to happen. So I don't really see anyone at fault here.... the issue is not under the control of either party
Based on the civil code posted earlier its going to come down to how a judge is going to interpret "habitable"..... the landlord has provided everything within his/her power to have everything working and ready to go....the inability for the utility to come out and turn it on for 16 days is not within his/her control and it was impossible to predict that there was going to be such a huge delay (the time frame seems to be WAY out of the norm).....and living in LA without hot water and access to a working stove is going to suck, but in practical terms, the place is very habitable.
As the landlord I would probably discount the rent some to show some courtesy and sympathy so we get started off in a good relationship....but not feel that legally I HAVE to....and no way am I making those days "rent free". I did everything within my power to provide a habitable unit....take it up with the utility company.....
As the tenant... I would hope you would show some courtesy as the landlord but not expect or demand it..... the landlord didn't do anything wrong or malicious to screw me....the issue is with the utility company....out of his/her control. Its not like the landlord is failing to fix something for 16 days....its impossible for him/her to correct the issue.
The true issue is with the utility company....not the landlord.....
As the tenant I would be on the phone with the utility company 1-2x/day...every day...until its on. And HELL NO on messing with the meter yourself....
As a landlord, I usually don't turn OFF the main utilities when I have a vacant unit.....I just turn everything within the unit off...heater off, water main off, gas at the stove etc. I want most of the stuff to work when it gets shown etc. The cost to pay utilities for a vacant unit where nothing is getting used is usually tiny...vs the hassle of having to get stuff turned back on....
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
We are landlords, the job description does not include holding hands or wiping butts.
What you are not understanding IS THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX. This is not a repair, it works perfectly fine. The lease says tenant is responsible for utilities.
If I go buy a car, and take it off the lot without insurance (which is my responsibility) and I get hit on the way home, does the dealership give me a refund? NO.
Second City Real Estate4.821 Reviews - Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8y
How would the landlord know it would take the utility company 2 to 3 weeks to turn the gas on ?
If that is the norm in that area then the landlord bears some responsibility . But honestly I havent heard it take that long to turn on any utility , gas or electric .
@Ned J. this takes the guesswork out of it, it's clearly defined. Again, why it doesn't work (gas company) isn't the issue, it's the fact that it doesn't work. Again, the landlord (due to the fault of the gas company) did not provide a habitable unit.
Conditions that make a rental unit legally uninhabitable
There are many kinds of defects that could make a rental unit unlivable. The implied warranty of habitability requires landlords to maintain their rental units in a condition fit for the "occupation of human beings. "136 In addition, the rental unit must "substantially comply" with building and housing code standards that materially affect tenants' health and safety.137
A rental unit may be considered uninhabitable (unlivable) if it contains a lead hazard that endangers the occupants or the public, or is a substandard building because, for example, a structural hazard, inadequate sanitation, or a nuisance endangers the health, life, safety, property, or welfare of the occupants or the public.138
A dwelling also may be considered uninhabitable (unlivable) if it substantially lacks any of the following:139
- Effective waterproofing and weather protection of roof and exterior walls, including unbroken windows and doors.
- Plumbing facilities in good working order, including hot and cold running water, connected to a sewage disposal system.
- Gas facilities in good working order.
- Heating facilities in good working order.
If its uninhabitable then he is welcome to not move in until it is....he chose to move in and he's been there for how many days? Planning on staying there until the utilities come on? Did he move out and spend $$ on a hotel?
So next time there is major regional power outage and there is no power or gas to a unit for X number of days, do all your tenants get those days Free?
If the landlord had reasonable knowledge that is was going to take 16 days for the utilities to be turned on, then its on them...if its normally 24 hours turn around, then the landlord has no fault here...... out of his control......
Courtesy to discount the rent...sure....but not legally obligated in my mind.....
If a landlord turns off the utilities when vacant, they are probably only going to turn them on once the lease is signed, right? Ok...so he signs the lease the landlord calls the utility and is told it going to be 16 days before its on....now what? Does the landlord say "well go ahead and move in, stay for free and the rent will actually start in 16 days"....
- 8yJennifer T.Pro MemberInvestor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 944 votes
Originally posted by @Jonathan Safa:
Hello everyone, I have an update:
@Joel Florek thank you for the kind words, and for the great attitude you have towards being a landlord. I have talked to several supervisors, to no avail. They keep citing the "winter" and the crazy wildfires we've been having in southern California... although, in my opinion, this begins to fall into a Health and Safety concern and they should be willing to foot the bill.
I will definitely be searching more for a legal case to back me. This will be crucial, you are right.
I had a conversation with my landlord, he came by the property (without informing me first), and actually proposed that I tamper with the gas meter and turn it on myself. His words were, "it's better to ask for forgiveness, than for permission." He also then said be thankful we're not in LA, where they are dealing with wildfires. WHAT. Hahah oh man.
Tampering with the meter is a criminal offense, including trespassing... needless to say, I will not be heeding the advice of my landlord.
This is turning quite shady, especially with the advice to tamper with the meter.
I will keep you informed as I continue my search.
@Shaun C. now I know I'm not in Michigan, but habitability is not in question. It does get into the 40s in my city, but I shouldn't even have to defend that. I have no kitchen, no hot water, no heater. Your comment has no logical consistency. Your comment is probably better left on some other forum... may I suggest Youtube comments, or Reddit?
I'm not going to speak on the legalities in CA, but I do fall more into the landlord isn't responsible camp. With that said, if you are choosing to not actually live there, then I would be more sympathetic to that argument. But if you are living there and it is unpleasant for a couple weeks, I think the LL should choose to give you some consideration but not the extreme of paying no rent for those 16 days.
However, the main reason I felt the need to post is the bolded. As sympathetic as I am to your situation, I can't see it as a Health and Safety concern.
I lived without hot water for 3 months after Katrina because the gas lines flooded. A LOT of people did. The stories of tragedy were rampant in those days, but not one (that I heard) had to do with someone getting sick because they didn't have hot water. I would call it a medium inconvenience. No heat either for almost the entire winter...and it is at least 10 degrees cooler here in winter (I actually grew up in So. CA). And no stove, because it was gas also.
Yes, it is a PITA and a hassle. Yes, hindsight being 20/20, the LL should have left the gas account open so you wouldn't be suffering for a couple weeks waiting for the gas company. But I lived that life for 3 months and it isn't unmanageable either.
Here are some tips if you are living there: goose down comforter, heavy blankets, space heaters, crockpot, microwave, electric griddle, heat water with your coffee maker to wash dishes, stand away from the shower spray and bathe more sponge bath style. For any of those items you don't have, your LL should cough them up and then some.
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
We are landlords, the job description does not include holding hands or wiping butts.
What you are not understanding IS THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX. This is not a repair, it works perfectly fine. The lease says tenant is responsible for utilities.
If I go buy a car, and take it off the lot without insurance (which is my responsibility) and I get hit on the way home, does the dealership give me a refund? NO.
The dealer won't let you leave with out proof of insurance. If it's working fine does it produce hot water, yes or no?
The gas and heating FACILITIES are in good working order....those are under the control of the landlord....the supply to those FACILITIES are not.....everything on the property works just fine.
So it would come down to the interpretation of those civil codes by the judge....did the landlord provide everything WITHIN THEIR ABILITY to provide a habitable unit....or are they responsible for things out of their control....
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