Police Called on Resident

Police Called on Resident

Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes

Would be very interested in some feedback. I've been managing apartments and houses for nine years and this is a first.

We hired someone to trim the hedges at one of our properties. While trimming, one of the residents came home and became furious that someone was on his porch. He went balistic throwing the hedges, verbally challenging the guy, and threatening to beat him senseless. I happended to hear what was going on and stopped the guy who in return started in on me. If it was not for the landscaper, it would have resulted in a fight. The police were called, but no report was made. The lawn guy didn't want to press charges and the resident had calmed down and started with the applogizes before the police arrived.

The next business day we called the resident and made him an offer to move by the end of the month and his lease would be broken and security deposit returned. He agreed on Monday, waffled on Tuesday, and Wednesday indicates he wants to see what a judge says. In other words, he wants me to evict him.

In the one week he has been there, the resident below him has moved, he made a scene in a restaurant down the street, and now this.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

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Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
16y

How'd somebody like this get through your screening? Behavior like this just doesn't start when they move in. The behavoir you describe has to come with a history of disturbing the peace, restraining orders, resisting an officer, frequent moving from one place to another. No red flags?

Quiet enjoyment, as already noted, is a start. Do something.

A question I'd ask, is if the hired hand on the porch evoked such a harsh response, is what the heck is this guy hiding inside? Something tells me that scheduling an inspection really isn't high on your list of things you'd like to do. I would, right away, who knows what damage has already occured. Someone who flips out over nothing makes me wonder how many doors are still on their hinges. I showed up for an inspection with a cop once, who got to see the yelling, screaming and threats first hand and the way my bad choice in a tenant lived. All I asked for was a copy of a well written and descriptive police report.

He's challenged your hired hand, and challenged you forcefully and physically, and magically turned docile and apologetic after the police were called. Think this isn't a game he's played before? He then called your hand on the verbal offer, and....
He's cost you a tenant, costing you and the owner money, and you've done......for a month.

Get a grip. He's got your goat. You've lost control, and you need to get it back. You've got to stand up to the bully, and get him out before someone does get hurt, he chases your next tenant away or causes more damage. Just do it in a lawful way. Put everything in writting. Serve a 5-day, a notice, or whatever is customary where you are that is the first step to eviction. He gets your message loud and clear without an opportunity to get back in your face. If standing up for your right to inspect isn't your style, filing for eviction is the same faceless way. Let the next time you see him be in court, and let him try his shtich there.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. Been there and paid dearly. I have zero tolerance for this and sometimes you have to stand your ground. It's not macho, it's how you have to deal with some people in order to take care of the property and create a place where others can live in peace. After all, you let him in, and it won't fix itself.

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  • Real Estate Investor · MD · Member since 2010 · 124 posts · 84 votes
    16y

    robj, are you saying the first floor moved as a result of him, if so i believe this violates the quiet enjoyment clause in his lease. also how could he cause someone to move in a week? i believe that at this point he needs to be notified in writing that he is in violation of his lease and list the things he has done, make sure to include attempted assault on property manager and let him know that you will be terminating his lease or if you think he will pay his rent, then let him stay and make sure the letter says that the next violation he will be evicted. but you must notify him in writing that he is in violation and send it certified in case you have to go to court; from my experience, irate tenants have always seemed to calm down when i send the violation of lease notices; if he passed your checks to become a resident, maybe he was having a bad day, wither way if you feel you will get your rent, i say give him a warning, but if he did cause someone to really move because of him, i would terminate that lease and kick him out

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    According the resident below, he would get up at 5:00 am and play with his 2 minature dogs. At around 7:00 am, would walk his dogs in front of the other resident's windows, making as much noise as possible. According to her, she felt threatened. Apparently, she would bang on the ceiling when he got to loud. This went on for 7 days before she notified me she was moving.

    It's been a month now and this seems to be a pattern with this guy. If I let him stay because he will pay his rent and another incident occurs, I think I could be held liable.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Do you have a long term or month-to-month lease? If month to month, give notice to terminate, then evict him if he doesn't leave. If its long term, bite the bullet and start an eviction based on the behavior. That's a much tougher route. Having a police report would have helped.

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    I was hoping you would post Jon. Thank you as well Tracey.

    I do have a long term lease and have never had to evict due to behavor. My understanding of the law is a 60 day notice is required, but I can attempt to evict. It will take about 21 days to get to court and the judge will probably give him several weeks to move.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
    16y

    How'd somebody like this get through your screening? Behavior like this just doesn't start when they move in. The behavoir you describe has to come with a history of disturbing the peace, restraining orders, resisting an officer, frequent moving from one place to another. No red flags?

    Quiet enjoyment, as already noted, is a start. Do something.

    A question I'd ask, is if the hired hand on the porch evoked such a harsh response, is what the heck is this guy hiding inside? Something tells me that scheduling an inspection really isn't high on your list of things you'd like to do. I would, right away, who knows what damage has already occured. Someone who flips out over nothing makes me wonder how many doors are still on their hinges. I showed up for an inspection with a cop once, who got to see the yelling, screaming and threats first hand and the way my bad choice in a tenant lived. All I asked for was a copy of a well written and descriptive police report.

    He's challenged your hired hand, and challenged you forcefully and physically, and magically turned docile and apologetic after the police were called. Think this isn't a game he's played before? He then called your hand on the verbal offer, and....
    He's cost you a tenant, costing you and the owner money, and you've done......for a month.

    Get a grip. He's got your goat. You've lost control, and you need to get it back. You've got to stand up to the bully, and get him out before someone does get hurt, he chases your next tenant away or causes more damage. Just do it in a lawful way. Put everything in writting. Serve a 5-day, a notice, or whatever is customary where you are that is the first step to eviction. He gets your message loud and clear without an opportunity to get back in your face. If standing up for your right to inspect isn't your style, filing for eviction is the same faceless way. Let the next time you see him be in court, and let him try his shtich there.

    Sorry if this sounds harsh. Been there and paid dearly. I have zero tolerance for this and sometimes you have to stand your ground. It's not macho, it's how you have to deal with some people in order to take care of the property and create a place where others can live in peace. After all, you let him in, and it won't fix itself.

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    As far as the screening process, we checked his credit, talked to his employer, his current landlord, his references, and stopped by his current residence.

    We have scheduled an inspection of the property for this Friday. This happended last Friday afternoon. We were on the phone Monday morning at 9:30 and continued the conversations on Tuesday, and Wednesday. We came to an agreement on Tuesday that he was moving and by Wednesday he began to change his mind. It's now Thursday morning. We gave him to the end of the month to move which was 13 days.

    Saying he's got my goat, I've lost control, and inspecting isn't on my list of priorities, is way off. But, thanks for the feedback.

    By the way, what would have been your time line?

  • Real Estate Investor · MD · Member since 2010 · 124 posts · 84 votes
    16y

    Rob, did you do a criminal background check on this guy? If not, I recommend you do one to see exactly what kind of person you are dealing with. my lease says arrests of any kind while living in the apartment is grounds for lease termination. maybe you'll get lucky and find out he has a warrant out or was arrested while living in your unit and you can use that to evict. If you don't do criminal checks, as you didnt mention it in the list of what you checked, I always do these for our tenants. It shows their character and as the other guy posted, you will see a pattern of behavior. Hope this helps. You need to go through your lease with a fine comb and see what violations you can go after to file to have him evicted for breach of lease. Also, how was a tenant allowed to move out after 7 days? You let them break their lease?

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    We didn't do a criminal background check. After doing a check of all of the above sources and the fact he works for The Fraternal Order of Police raising money, our office determined he would be a good resident.

    As far as the other resident, she moved with a 7 day notice. She left the apartment in excellent condition. We filed for eviction because she was late. Court date is next week. We used her deposit to repaint and clean. A letter with the breakdown of cost was sent to her. We are going to seek a judgement for the last month's rent. We rented the apartment to someone else 72 hrs later.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    You made 2 HUGE MISTAKES:

    1. signing a lease longer than 1 month!

    2. not doing a criminal background check!

    If you've been managing apartments and houses for 9 years - you should know better. How many units could you have managed for 9 years and not know that a criminal background check is required?

    At this point, I would give the guy a written notice of lease violation. It will be almost impossible to evict him for this one incident and I wouldn't waste your time and money taking this to court yet.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
    16y

    He does have your goat, Robj.
    You report this behavior as "It's been a month now and this seems to be a pattern with this guy." Where I live, it's a 12 hour notice before a LL can legally enter without the tenant's permission to inspect. He clearly doesn't respect you as any type of authority, you've been unable to alter his behavior except when the police are on their way, you have not one piece of evidence (i.e. police report, willing witness, notices served) to document this in court and are asking for input on an internet site. That's "got your goat," in my book. And I would have been in there the day after the porch incident with a 5 day notice. Dealing with the drama of an easily triggered violent temper and a lack of respect for others is not something to let slide. He would have received the message, loud and clear, in a business like, unemotional manner, that I'm not someone he can bully and his behavior has to change, pronto. He's got to respect me, my authority, my contractors and others around him. That notice would have been a 5 day remedy or quit, it would have detailed the lease violations, which beyond quite enjoyment, would have detailed his refusal to let your landscaper perform routine maintenance and his behavior that required the police to be called. I'd have that police report, too. Even if he turned around, it would all be in his tenant file.

    I would have let him know where the limits are. A tenant is not an owner, and his rights are limited, and often they don't know where those lines are drawn. In my state, the department of consumer protection, of all departments, publishes a pamplet, "The Wisconsin Way, a Guide for Landlords and Tenants." I keep a couple on hand to enlighten these tenants. They won't believe what you say, but if it's in writing from the state, they can't argue. There would be no confusion as to who can do what, and where his behavior was out of line. The time to do that, IMO, was on the porch.

    Working for the Fraternal Order of Police is no replacement for a criminal background check. I've had a few, believe it or not, and they are nothing more than telemarkers trying to get donations in return for a window sticker. They hire anyone who can pick up a phone and read a script. In my state, by statute, all court cases are on the internet and I can get every parking ticket, small claims, etc. in minutes, often while I'm on the phone with the applicant, and I do this before showing the apartment to them. When they call, and you ask for their full name, how they respond is very telling. I don't show without a full name first, just policy and a good screening tool. Good tenants understand, the problem ones don't.

    Current landlords, sadly, are often a contra-reference. As often as not, they are compelled by their own needs and will praise the tenant they really want to move. Call their previous landlords that no longer have any such incentive. Much more accurate.

    Your OP stated your other tenant left within a week, and she was afraid for her safety. The implication was she moved because of him, then you say she moved as she was late and you were evicting. Big difference.

    IMO, you've fallen victim to the Tenant Lottery due to shortcomings in your screening. Your properties must be in better areas than mine, given that you've not seen this before. I've come to the point where I do the internet court checks on their references and their listed landlords (I expect their landlords, if they really are landlords, to show evictions where they are the plaintiff), every name that appears anywhere on the application, and a similar check with the assessors office on any address they list, checking to see if it really does exist. It takes but minutes, and can be so reveiling. Once you discover your mistake, however, you have to act, it's just what you have to do when a problem tenant does get in, and from your posts, again, IMO, you've been slow off the blocks and missed opportunities to document and support a probable eviction.

    Good luck, but you're a landlord, not someone who can influence a change in someone else's mental makeup. You need to rid yourself of this tenant, and haven't been effective in just doing the things you could have done to first, prevent him from getting in, and second, to get him out.

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    You guys crack me up.

  • Member since 2008 · 67 posts · 9 votes
    16y

    Why do they crack you up?

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    The next time I post a question I will be sure to send in letters of recomdendations, testimonials, letters of thanks from the county, city, and anything else to show that I didn't just wipe my nose, buy a house and become a property manager. They basically said I wear panties too.

    Don't get me wrong I appreciate the advice. That's why I posted the question asking for feedback. You learn from others. That's why I'm here.

    What I should have done is spent 2 hours and 2 pages writing a detailed report from the time he called our office until the minute I posted. That way we could have spent time on the feedback instead of calling me a Mary and punching holes in my business.

    By the way, he has no criminal history.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
    16y

    In '98, that was me, only I never became a PM, just a LL of my own properties in the school of hard knocks.

    I think you got very specific and valuable feedback on where your business could be better.

    If you've read any name calling or hostility into any of the posts here, I think your wrong and missing the message.

  • Real Estate Investor · TN · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    Thank you for the feedback.

  • Real Estate Investor · MD · Member since 2010 · 124 posts · 84 votes
    16y

    Rob, let me tell you something I am going through right now that is my fault. I put in a couple in a property in the ghetto I was having a very hard time renting. These people are section 8. They pay their portion on time every month but they are a problem. My background check revealed they had previous landlord issues and guess what, I have issues with them. They are all or nothing whack jobs. Meaning, if something goes wrong in their unit, they go bananas! They harrass our office and maintenance office, call every minute for hours and leave threats on our voicemails. I had a talk with these people 3 months into their lease about their behavior. For a little while it seemed ok, but everytime they see me they start complaining about something, they expect our office to do everything, they even tried to get the section 8 inspector to fail the unit which he refused to do. I have decided I had enough of these lunatics. Their lease is up and they were notified they were not being renewed and they now refuse to leave and claim they are getting a lawyer. The point of people telling you these things is from real experience. I put problem tenants in my unit. I knew. The thing about problem people is they have a history of this. The guy you say is not a criminal, but I can guarantee you there is a history of his behavior. I would be willing to bet talking to some of his previous landlords would reveal some stuff as it did for me but I didnt listen, now I will have to go through an eviction process with a bunch of lunactics. Point is, I wish I had followed my tenant guidelines for screening.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Camden, NJ · Member since 2010 · 126 posts · 55 votes
    16y

    tracey, was there any indication during the showing that they were going to be a problem, like complaining, nit-picking, body language?....one time i had a family after a showing, every time i asked a question they would all look at each other, and gave me short answers, they filled out an app, and i tossed it into the circular file cabinet

  • Real Estate Investor · MD · Member since 2010 · 124 posts · 84 votes
    16y

    Mike, during the showing they were fine. But I have strict policy that I do not accept people who have previous landlord issues. The reason I accepted them was because they lived in each place for many years so I thought I would have a long term tenant. They are just so nasty to deal with and complain all the time, I am worried that they are a liability. They threatened to sue me so many times now over the littlest things. Their previous landlord wouldn't say anything bad about them per se but I could tell from his tone he didnt like or recommend them. They moved out of their previous house prior to the end of the lease and didnt tell section 8 so previous landlord was still getting paid.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Camden, NJ · Member since 2010 · 126 posts · 55 votes
    16y

    unfortunately for you these people have nothing else to do but sit around and complain about this and that...why would they want your unit to fail inspection? they don't get anything for that! keep us updated please

  • Real Estate Investor · MD · Member since 2010 · 124 posts · 84 votes
    16y

    Mike, they moved out at the end of their lease but are now trying to strong arm us into giving their security deposit back. I don't take well to being strong armed and will personally be walking through their unit and will charge them for anything they messed up. When are tenants going to learn that being nasty does not yield positive results? At least they are out, thank goodness!

  • Certified Public Accountant · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2008 · 279 posts · 151 votes
    15y

    I'm going through a similar episode with a tenant of house I bought last month. The tenant has been there for several years. I immediately got the tenant to sign a month-to-month lease. Within 2 weeks, I realized I had an extremely high maintenance, aggressive, lawsuit threatening, angry, unstable tenant that was going to be a problem.

    I informed them immediately that they had a month-to-month lease and that it would it be terminated effective October 31. From what I've heard they don't plan to leave. I don't look forward to an eviction, but I've got to get this tenant out. This will be my first eviction. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Spoke to a seller two weeks ago who spent 5 YEARS getting rid of a tenant. And during those 5 years he didn't get one thin dime. It was couple and they KNEW the system better than anyone. They filed restraining orders, appeal after appeal, made criminal allegations, etc. They did the same thing against the public util. co. here and didn't pay for utilities during those 5 years. After hearing about these people, I do ALL KINDS of background checks.

  • Real Estate Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2010 · 63 posts · 40 votes
    15y

    If you truly want the tenant to move out....start the eviction process for "breach of lease". Always put everything in writing.

    Document everything that has occured up to the present time with dates.

    Not sure what your state law is, but if he doesn't move out the date the constable gives him, you will have to file a "writ" and he would then only have 24 hours.

    When I have a problem tenant (just had one) I sent him a certified letter requesting he schedule an appointment to review his lease as he had violated his lease. Boy, did he have a change of attitude.

    I've had to file quite a few evictions, but primarily for rent arrears to tenants that could no longer pay their rent. I've only had one appeal that was difficult but turned in my favor. I find that most tenants that file an appeal are doing so only to bide more time.

    I never depend on verbal conversations, most tenants won't hold true to that. Certified letters work wonders and you also have that to take to court. I also document any conversations I have with problem tenants.

    Always follow your lease to the letter. You will need that to back you up in court.

    Good Luck!

  • Certified Public Accountant · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2008 · 279 posts · 151 votes
    15y

    Surprise.. My tenant hasn't paid their October rent. I called them to tell them they needed to pay October rent and she said her lease said she didn't have to pay October rent and that she would be moving out. She then hung up. I called back and left a message explaining she needed to pay or legal action would be taken to remedy the situation. I followed it up with a certified letter stating the same thing. I also filed a Detainer Action this morning to start the eviction process since they have not paid October rent.

    I don't think I've ever met anyone that lies and talks so aggressively as this person. I believe they have been used to getting what they want by just talking fast and not letting people get a word in when they try to correct the lies.

    I've been very good about documenting and sending all correspondence certified mail to document our discussions. Hopefully this person will just move out this month and I'll be done with them.

  • Certified Public Accountant · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2008 · 279 posts · 151 votes
    15y

    Here is an update on my troubled tenant.

    My attorney met with my tenant at court on October 27th. Surprisingly, the tenant brought a lawyer and claimed the lease I had provided to the tenant was not the same one the tenant originally signed. I'm not sure what they were saying had changed. It was a standard month-to-month lease with a 30 day move-out notice.

    In an effort to reach a peaceful compromise, my attorney agreed to give the tenant until November 17th to move-out, but they had to pay October and November rent. They agreed and the trial date was set for November 17th. If the tenant isn't out by then, I can file the writ on the 18th and have them out in a day or so. Still haven't seen any rent from them.

    On 11/3 my tenant called my attorney and agreed to pay all of November immediately if they could just stay through 11/30. They would need to set up a payment plan to pay October back rent. When my attorney asked me what I wanted to do, you can guess my answer. NO!!!!! This is a typical delay game this tenant has played all along. From the initial notice provided on September 5th to final move-out day (November 17), they have had 71 days to move out! It's time to go.

    I found out an interesting tidbit about this tenant when I called the Session Court where the eviction is taking place. This tenant has been evicted over 6 times before. The clerk was having trouble finding my warrant against them, because so many other landlords in town had sued them in the past. Some tenants never change.

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