How Do I Handle This: poorly insulated unit and rude tenants

How Do I Handle This: poorly insulated unit and rude tenants

Aiken, SC · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 6 votes

Hello Everyone,

This is going to be a little lengthy....

I'm a new landlord, and these are my first tenants. They live in an apartment above my garage. The lower half is not insulated, and the HVAC system is old but functional - though not really good. About a month back, the drip pan filled up and forced it to shut off. My tenants texted me that day telling me it was 97 degrees in the unit! I was out of town too, but I spent the next hour and a half calling people to see who could come out. I only found 1 guy able to do it the next morning.

So the guy came out the next day and cleaned the drip line and got a slow drip going. He told me that the unit was reaching the end of its life and couldn't figure out why it was dripping so slowly. He said a new unit would be like 4-5k and that's before construction costs since the attic opening is so tiny, it would have to be widened to actually get it up there. So I'm figuring more like 6-7k, all things considered. Maybe more? I don't know.... But for the time being, it was at least cooling. So I figured we were good - I'd keep checking to make sure it was dripping, and the tenants would let me know if it goes bad again. My girlfriend and I bought some blinds for the windows hoping that would help some - the unit had none, and I got some insulation to put on the garage ceiling. I was in the middle of putting up the insulation when one of the tenants came by to pick something up, and she was angry that the driveway had puddles in it from the rain and my truck was parked in the least-wet spot. I had only parked there to unload the insulation. So she yelled at me about that as she walked back to her car. This was 2 days after the ~$1600 butt-wipe/tampon sewage clog I decided not to take out of their security deposit, and after I got them a decent hotel room for 2 nights while the clog was being fixed. I already let them use $150 from their security deposit as a deposit to the power company because I hadn't told them they might need to do that (this is their first time renting). Not to mention I've so far turned a blind eye to the cat they snuck in (I explained at lease signing that's a $200 fee). Me and my girlfriend were actually checking up on it while they were in the hotel. We laugh about it, but it's got me feeling like a total beta in my own home. See I'm nice, right? But I feel I've been WAY too nice so far.

Another thing that's kind of important to note: while the AC guy was over, the one who didn't yell at me was home and she's apparently been going through stuff lately. At one point she was crying telling me she didn't care if she lived or died anymore and she had cut her wrists a few weeks ago (in MY unit, no less!) - I saw the marks but didn't think they were recent. They both had a friend that was killed less than a week before then so they were dealing with that. It's just been such a sticky situation, and I was trying to help them a bit by cutting them some slack. Probably would've been a bad time to bring up the pet fee.

Anyway, they got their power bill a few days after the guy fixed the AC and it was like $180 for the 700 sq.ft. apartment. I know that's a lot. They were keeping it in the low 70's, but I don't think it ever got that cool. And I felt bad because they asked me what the bill would be like when they signed the lease, and I said I just moved into the main house myself and it really varies, but I didn't expect it to go over the low $100's. They have brought that up several times now. I was wrong there, but I keep getting the impression they think I should reimburse them. I feel like as long as the unit is habitable, that's more their problem than mine. So here's two questions: am I wrong in assuming this? And if I am wrong, how low does their power bill need to get down to for it to not be my responsibility?

So a month later (3 days ago at the time of writing this), I got a text from one of them saying their new bill came in and it was $220. They've been keeping at at 76 the past month I think, but they said that it doesn't cool below 80 during the day - though when they texted me that I took it to mean that they had it set to 80 (I told them that's what I've been doing). After being sworn and yelled at while doing the insulation a month earlier, I didn't finish putting it up. I didn't give them the blinds either. I see no reason to do favors for them if they're going to talk to me like that. But I'm so new to this, I don't know. Did I cross a line there? I saw it as more of me doing them a favor anyway, not stepping on some unalienable rights of theirs as my tenants. Regardless, we gave them the blinds after the $220 bill, and I gave them the option of installing the blinds themselves or having me install them and they chose to do it themselves.

So I get a text this afternoon saying, "It's 87 degrees. This should have been fixed by now." This is from the one that mouthed off to me. This is the first time since it broke that I heard about it going over 80 degrees. Guess what though? They hadn't even installed the blinds yet. So she's saying she doesn't see why she should have to pay this bill since I refused to pay to have the AC fixed. Call me crazy, but I'm getting the vibe she's pointing fingers at me and trying to make it seem like I'm negligent. But what she doesn't understand is that as far as I was concerned, it was fixed and they should just put up some blinds and maybe set it a little higher. But 87 degrees when you have it set to 76 is ridiculous. I'm not arguing that - it's just this is the first time I heard that there was such a big issue since it broke the first time and it seems to be approaching uninhabitable conditions. 

I texted back saying I had somewhere to be soon but I'd be over to check it out in an hour at the latest. We texted back and forth while I was out just so I could get more details on the issue, and it got a little heated. She said she wasn't trying to be rude, and I said she was being very rude, just because of the stuff she started the conversation with. Soon, she told me not to worry about coming over, the blinds were up now and they'll see if that fixed it. And I'm totally confused at that point because I thought it was a broken AC issue. She said it wasn't cooling. If it's not cooling, I needed to actually call someone. I just wanted information so I could know what needed to be fixed. 

Anyway, she seemed satisfied enough to not have me mess with it, and I didn't want to deal with her, so I didn't go over. The other tenant was texting me too, and I said I'd finish installing the insulation and we'd see how that affected things along with the blinds. If that doesn't work, I'll look into a window unit for them. I said that to her about the window unit. So I thought we were good at that point. But then I got another text like 15 minutes later saying the angry one's granddad would be in touch with me soon. And I'm like "what does that even mean"? He apparently does HVAC installation for a living, and he wanted to explain to me why insulation under the floor wouldn't work. I said I'd research it and call the guys from before if I needed help with the unit itself, and that I didn't want to start involving family members. So what happens next? Ten minutes later, the angry one's mom calls me. Really? Her mom called me and talked about how I should consider getting them some kind of window unit or some other non-central alternative and it was clear that her daughter and I aren't friends and she isn't the best at communicating and she's been so hot in that apartment all day and more excuses.

I'll be the first to admit I butted heads with this girl more than I should have. I feel like I'm renting to a couple of children playing house, and I'm embarrassed that I stooped to that level. I'm embarrassed that I cut them so many breaks. So if anyone can spare any advice for me, please help me out here. I really don't know what to do moving forward. I need input from unbiased parties. My plan is to install the insulation, most likely get a window unit (though I doubt that'll help their bill), wait to hear about their next bill, and figure out what to do from there.

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Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y

@Account Closed

Let them out of their lease and get rid of them. Use the cat if necessary.

You live in South Carolina. It's July. The A/C has to do better than that.

Your above-the-garage apartment was not rent-ready. You misled them on how much utility costs would be. You're going back and forth on what you should do and what you shouldn't do. Their names are on the lease and you're talking to the parents? Seriously? Why don't you just open a daycare center up there and be done with it?

Then there's the blinds, which you can't decide to put in or not for some reason, like it matters. Once you get the brackets in you can change out the blinds easily. That's what you should be focused on instead of the hurt feelings.

This is a business. You're in for a loss. The children have not grown up and cannot take care of their own problems. You've made mistakes -- acknowledge all of them openly and honestly. Take the loss. Fix the apartment -- rip out the drywall on the exterior walls and insulate the hell out of that place with fiberglass or rock wool. I don't know how the ceiling is set up. Insulate it.

Get the space rent-ready and solid or give up thinking you can use the space for anything other than storage. As far as the A/C goes, you have multiple solutions available instead of just changing the whole A/C system. There are window units. There are mini splits. Research these alternatives.

You talk about putting insulation ON the garage ceiling. Huh? Rip off any drywall that's on that ceiling. Insulate the cavities, preferably with rockwood. Replace with 5/8 in. Type X drywall for a fire-rated ceiling. Finish the drywall and paint. You have an unheated garage that probably gets up to a million degrees and an apartment over it. Heat rises.

Stop complaining about cleaning out sewage clogs. Young women almost always flush tampons unless someone tells them not to -- you took your hit and now you know. Stop getting involved in your tenants' personal lives and teen-angst, stop asking about failed suicide attempts past or present -- they're not your friends, this is none of your business. Tenants are tenants and landlords are landlords for good reasons. Be a landlord if that's what you want.

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  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    Alright I can tell you this as a real actual current landlord with multiple rental properties. Learn the code. Learn to do this yourself. Framing, sheetrock, and electrical is not that difficult. If you really want to make this profitable you need to find a friend that’s a contractor that will tell you exactly what to do. If you don’t know ANY contractors, try taking some classes in construction management. In the long run this will save you tens of thousands. Cheers! Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Spencer Hollen:

    Alright I can tell you this as a real actual current landlord with multiple rental properties. Learn the code. Learn to do this yourself. Framing, sheetrock, and electrical is not that difficult. If you really want to make this profitable you need to find a friend that’s a contractor that will tell you exactly what to do. If you don’t know ANY contractors, try taking some classes in construction management. In the long run this will save you tens of thousands. Cheers! Good luck!

    I will second that .. calling up contractors to come out and paying handymen to do everything is a killer in this business . Learning how to do basic stuff is so crucial  to keeping your profits in the Black .ive been burnt before so I never call now unless there’s no way I can Do it myself . Honestly YouTube videos can train you if your are unsure of something 

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed

    Here's how I handle the "cat is just visiting" comment in my lease:

    ----

    PETS: No pets or animals may enter or be kept on the Premises without our written consent. This includes any animal that is not always restricted to its cage, terrarium or similar enclosure. 

    ----

    I also charge a pet fee for any pets.  That way, if they "sneak" in a pet, you have two options: (a) eviction for breach of lease, or (b) start charging them pet rent/fees by having them sign an addendum.

    With these particular tenants I'm not sure there is an opportunity to save their tenancy.  I might just let them go, make necessary repairs to the unit, and then start fresh.  I may be a cynic, but it sounds like you just gave them another $600 to walk off with when they slip out the night before the eviction hearing.  It's always your choice on how to proceed.  I hope to be wrong about them.

  • Real Estate Broker · FREDERICKSBURG, VA · Member since 2018 · 30 posts · 36 votes
    8y

    One suggestion. If you haven't gone to a lawyer yet, you might want to think about how much you will pay the lawyer to help you get the girls out and the time it will take. Instead, even though it may seem like a defeat in the moment, offer the girls money to make them go away. Have them sign a termination of the lease and a release of any and all claims (which you can download off the internet or write very basically) and say I'll give you $1,000 to cover your moving expenses ($500 when they sign the release, $500 when they vacate, turn over keys and the unit is EMPTY). Don't write anything else but you can verbally say that the unanticipated A/C problem cannot be solved with them inhabiting the unit and it's just best for everyone to move on. Also you think you've developed a cat allergy, haha. Anyway, good luck. It's not easy and we all struggle with the interpersonal stuff sometimes.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    Brian although you are learning it is still very obvious that some of the advice you are following indicates that you are still far too lenient in dealing with tenants. You have miles to go and some of the advice you are taking with this situation is only going to set you back even farther.

    Unfortunately you will need to learn this on your own the hard way. Not following experienced advice is part of that curve. Any form of leniency is only going to cost you. You are delaying th einevitable unfortunately.

    Good luck, you are going to need it if you continue where you are headed in trying to appease these child like tenants..

  • Vallejo, CA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Hey Brian: Feel for you on your situation. I see it all the time in my office and we have to coach landlords like yourself out of sticky situations that you are in. First thing is First and insuring that you are meeting your obligations under the lease as a landlord and minimal Habitability requirements of your state for your unit. The A/C deal as to temperature in the unit is probably a Habitability issue so if you need to do a quick fix and get some window units to cure the problem do that. If you can get insulation in the home without having to displace the tenants do that. You can work on long term solutions after dealing with your problems tenants. You do the quick fixes to comply with your state Habitability laws to make the unit safe under the law and your obligations as a landlord in your lease; not to please your tenants. The second deal you are going to have to deal with is your tenants and their compliance with the lease. This is where you need to consider is it worth dealing with your tenants on a long term basis. Sounds like to me you are living out a nightmare with tenant and mama and the whole family bugging you on this deal and you got sucked into the drama. You should sit down with a good landlord attorney that knows your area to see what’s your options are in getting out of the lease. My favorite deal is cash for keys. At least where I’m at in CA, it takes about 60 days or so to complete an eviction from end to end so it may make sense to have an attorney draft an addendum to for you all to cancel the lease early and walk away. Look I see the posts on here about how you should have done such and such and I get you were trying to be a straight up guy and care. See it all the time and folks take advantage. The bottom line is you can be compassionate about your land lording practice; but you have to be firm and stick up for yourself and your business and not let folks take you to the cleaners. Don’t be afraid of enforcing your lease. Throwing out this resource to you as I’m a recovering “nice guy” this may hit home for you. Check out “No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover” That book has changed how I deal with everything personally and in business. Simple moral of the book you can’t please everyone and you need to stick up for yourself. Just one last tip, when you talk to a lawyer, keep things to the point and make the situation easy to follow; many lawyers will be happy to bill you $300-$400 bucks an hour to hear how tenants mama called you up 5 times and how that made you feel as they are billing in six minutes intervals. Also find yourself a good handy man to put those blinds up for you unless you like that type of thing. Hope that helps Rob
  • Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed, you have a tenant that has told you she has attempted suicide in your own place?!? You have a problem. That's a cry for help! While talking to your lawyer, you need to bring this up. Being around law enforcement agents, this is not a joke or something to be just dismissed. I'm not saying your are legally liable for anything, but I'm sure you don't want to have to be doing some dead body cleanup in your personal residence. Imagine her roommate, the rude one, goes on vacation & she is left by herself and decides to off herself. Body sitting there in that 90 degree  heat for a week!!! I don't know how long dead bodies take to explode when they are left in the heat, but I hope you get the picture.

  • Aiken, SC · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    @Spencer Hollen thanks for the well-wishes. Sometime here soon I think I'm going to make a little one-room man cave or something to learn a lot of that stuff. Jim K. has been really helpful so far on advice on insulation, and we're going to discuss drywall soon once I finish my garage ceiling. I know 1 contractor, but he's not reliable at all, so I need to start looking. Maybe I'll join a home improvement forum soon and see if I can find anyone local who wouldn't mind me apprenticing for cheap. I ended up installing some window units myself. I was hesitant to because our windowsills are so small and I was afraid of the units falling 2 stories, but they're in there really good I think. That alone really showed me that a lot of this stuff I don't know isn't as bad as it seems once I take a little time to learn it. I'm confident I can install those now without even looking at the instructions. I'm lucky it took the handymen I called several days to return my calls, otherwise I would have had them do it. I really think this is a turning point for me.

    @Dennis M. YouTube has been really helpful. For the window units, I found a guy with virtually the same setup I had as far as the specific kind of window unit and windowsill size. Hearing him say stuff like "I've never seen these braces before, but I might use them" helped me to understand that I have a lot more wiggle room with home repairs than I thought. I've always been so detailed-oriented that I often get tripped up and agonize over little things that don't really matter, and that's prevented me from even starting a lot of projects in the past.

    @Wesley W. I do have a clause in my lease about pets, and we discussed it at lease signing, but they went ahead and did it anyway. My big concern was proving the cat was there now that I've decided to do something about it. The 2 times I went in there since initially finding the cat, they removed every trace of it - no food, litter box, toys, nothing. I have to give 24 hours notice, so they would always have time. And you know, the first time they said they were holding it for a friend, and even though I didn't believe it, it'd be hard to prove the cat was still there so long after the fact. I've never filed for an eviction but I feel like there's a chance a judge wouldn't side with me there. It just seemed so murky when that was all I had to go by. Luckily though, when I mentioned the cat to them last week, they admitted to having it without a fuss. I really couldn't believe it. The sassy one said it was her "dead friend's" - I'm pretty sure she thought she could guilt me into not doing anything about it, but I reaffirmed my stance by saying "It's your cat now, you can either get rid of it or pay the fee." And you know what? They paid it. I really didn't expect it to work out so well. But I think I scared them when I said the word "eviction". I hope it works out, too. I'm not being Mr. Nice Guy anymore though. We had a talk about how we have a business relationship, and from now on I will strictly follow the lease and I expect them to do the same. So far, they seem a lot more agreeable since I began installing the window units. As childish as they are, I think a lot of their frustration was coming from the feeling that I was neglecting their well-being. We'll see though.

    @Account Closed you have a good point. She was still breathing this morning at least, but it is something I've been wary of for the past month and a half. I've had several friends make similar claims over the past couple years - and a family member who actually went through with it about 3 years ago. Ever since then, I never assume they don't mean it, even though I know a lot of people really just want help or attention. But that's the thing that makes me stop and think - does she want help or does she want attention? A lot of times, treating something like a problem only seems to make the problem worse, but then again, ignoring it might make it worse too. It's a flip of a coin in my, admittedly limited, experience. It's like how they say sending people to prison only makes them better criminals. And people might think I'm foolish for saying that and I need to get her out of that apartment and get her help, but I know what they'd do if I got law enforcement involved. They'd take her to this rehab center that's known for getting people addicted to painkillers, which seems to be pretty widespread in our country. My friend's brother talked about suicide in the 9th grade (knowing him, I'm 99% sure that was just for attention), but his parents committed him to that center and when he got out, he was asking his mom to ask my mom (a nurse) if she had any spare syringes because he just thought they were cool all of a sudden. What's cool about a syringe, Mark? You just like how pokey they are? You sure it doesn't have anything to do with you wanting to get high? But he seems all right now. He's majoring in chemistry, which can have pretty decent pay. He's probably forgotten about the whole syringe thing at this point. But anyway, all I'm saying is if I try to get her help, she might get hooked on something at the very least and that's not really going to help her; at the worst it could be the final straw that makes her actually go through with it. Imagine you feel like you're at rock bottom and there's no hope for you, and then the police show up to take you away. People might say her actions aren't my responsibility, and I agree. But no matter if I intervene or not, if she offs herself, I'm going to be thinking about how I could have helped that not to happen. It'll be on her, but I'll still feel bad about it. I'd rather not add to her worries if I can help it though, but like I've been saying, that won't stop me from enforcing the lease. She's made it clear she has emotional baggage, but I don't think I could get her the help she needs without getting too involved. If I have to clean up a body, then I guess I've got to clean up a body. At least the flooring is only vinyl. But if the roommate does go on vacation like you said, you better believe I'm going to be checking in "to see how the window units are doing". Maybe that's a way I could have gotten them out though. I didn't think about that until just now. If she got committed, the other one wouldn't be able to pay rent and I could probably pay her off, or she might just leave of her own will. I don't know how I feel about that though.

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    This is why I only offer MTM leases.  If this were my tenant, I could just terminate their tenancy with a 30 day notice.  I agree it is very difficult to evict for breach of lease apart from non-payment.  There are pros and cons of term leases, and this was a business decision I made from the beginning that fits my management style.

  • Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed you are WAY TO OVER the top with your analysis of things. LOL. You really need a business only set of rules for your rental business. You are not a social worker & it's not your job to help them get ahead, just to provide a safe & clean place to live. If they can't abide by your rules, then out they are.

    For instance, I have a colleague that has 10+ rentals. If he doesn't have rent COB 1st of the month, he immediately is at the court house starting proceedings to evict. He doesn't listen to any of the sad stories, if he doesn't have rent he evicts. Once his tenants realized he was like this, he doesn't have any trouble collecting rent,...on time or with a late fee. He doesn't get into their personal lives nor tries to analyze their life. He has a set of rules that he follows & doesn't veer from it.

    I realize your are young, but you need some rental business guidelines for dealing with tenants, else they will be telling you what to do.

  • Aiken, SC · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    @James Green fair enough. I definitely over-analyze. Things seem to be going all right since I talked with them. We'll see how it all pans out from here. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    I am always asked by possible tenants " How much do the utilities usually cost ? "  I tell them , " I dont know , I dont live here , call the electric company and they will give you an average for the year from the last tenant " 

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