Rental Discount for being Law Enforcement/Military
Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes
Rental Discount for being Law Enforcement/Military
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Why would you choose to offer discounts/charity for any reason other than to get a unit occupied. Charity is not warranted so if you want to show gratitude simply make a donation, and get a tax write off, to the charity of your choice. Military or police foundation should you choose.
Not a good idea to turn your business into a charity.
22 Replies
- Silver Spring, MD · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 3 votes8y
Originally posted by @James M Smith:
So was reading this little known book, "The Book on Managing Rental Properties" by this no name hack Brandon Turner... ;) And noticed in Chapter 4 it mentioned that military history is part of Washington's Fair Housing laws.... This got me to thinking, which is dangerous. If I were to invest in Washington does this mean I cannot offer discounts for someone who was a military vet in recognition of their service? I believe the answer is yes because it descriminates against those without military service, which is the flipside of the coin, but wanted to confirm.
TIA,
James
Those types of statutes (Washington State included) are in place to prevent discrimination AGAINST veterans or active duty military by landlords.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
Originally posted by @Simon Daniels:
Hey @Simon Daniels, While I agree of the intent I disagree on how the law could be interpreted. By stating that you cannot discriminate based on someone's military history they include having a lack thereof... By offering a discount to a Military Vet you are treating 1/2 the equation differently then the other which by definition of the law is discriminatory. Keep in mind legal doesn't always mean right.
Just like saying you cannot discriminate based on Gender is designed to protect a woman’s right to lease/buy a home, we are not The Republic of Gilead after all, but this means you cannot only sell it to women or provide better terms to women or that would be discriminatory against men, right?
Please know, I recognize this is an academic discussion (for now) and am just interested in hearing and debating other landlords’ opinions on the matter. I offer the discount mentioned above but am in a State that doesn’t have a protection for Military Service. However, upon reading that Washington had such a rule on the books I went ahead and did another review of my states fair housing laws to confirm.
Thanks for your input and I would love to know what you think about my retort/ideas above and if they made sense to you (i.e. did I explain the idea clearly).
- Gig Harbor, WA · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes8y@James M Smith. While I have absolutely zero knowledge, I would think it's the same with stores. I know the home improvement store near me offers a veterans discount.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Chris Grogan, Retail isn't subject to Fair housing laws and in my neck of the woods it is the same because my local fair housing laws do not have a special provision for Military service/history. Thanks for your input
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
I am ex-military and I would not offer any kind of written discount for anyone. Rent amounts are arbitrary - you can charge market rate, way below or way above, and you can negotiate. If you want to do this, find a good tenant first, and if they happen to be military or law enforcement and you want to go that route, just take the amount off the agreed-upon rent. Housing is private sector but governed by lots of anti-discrimination laws. I will tell you that in the utility sector we cannot offer discounts to anyone for any reason - poor, old, minority, veteran, whatever. Everyone has to be charged the same rates.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
JD Martin, I do not advertise any discounts period but it is good advice to be reminded of (so thank you for calling that out). I do not even mention the discount until I have an application in hand and confirm they are in one of my "discount" occupations and of course I am not going to discuss that with someone who I am going to deny even if they are LE/Vet. Just thought it was interesting that potentially, it seems to me, that in Washington offering that discount would be a violation of their local fair housing laws which to Chris' point above would be contrary to their initial intention. Thanks again for your input and it is interesting to hear your input on Utilities, learned something new today!
- Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
By that definition, wouldn't it be against the law to offer different rates for different lease lengths? It is common that a longer lease gets a better rate. Is it discrimination against month-to-month tenants because they aren't signing a 1 year lease? No. The simple answer is no. In sections of the law, if it is not specifically stated, then it is not discrimination.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
Hi Anthony Wick, Except there isn't a fair housing law protecting short term vs long term tenants whereas in Washington State there is a Fair housing law specificly for Military service. I understand that the intention of the law was to prevent someone from refusing to sell/rent a home to a Vet. My question is that per Fair Housing Laws in Washington State is offering a discount based on military service grounds for discrimination because the law is on the books. Not offering the same rate (i.e. full price) because they dont have military service is offering a difference in rate based on military service (even though it was not the original intent of the law).
Mtg Lending is also based on Fair Housing so let pose an example that is somewhat different. If I am a lender who focuses on helping Women finance their dream homes. To make things easier for them I offer any Woman a 1% discount on their mortgage rate. Knowing that FHL protections were put in place, in part, to ensure that Women (and other groups) were not discrimated against based on gender. However, in this instance a Man could sue under FHL due to descrimination, couldn't they? I see this as the same thing for Washington States' FHL including Military Service. Maybe I am someone who just reads too much into things but it was an itch I had to scratch and was wondering if someone had experience personally or knew of a case studdy or actual civil case. Thanks for your input!
Why would you choose to offer discounts/charity for any reason other than to get a unit occupied. Charity is not warranted so if you want to show gratitude simply make a donation, and get a tax write off, to the charity of your choice. Military or police foundation should you choose.
Not a good idea to turn your business into a charity.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@James M Smith In general... military discounts would have a disparate impact against women because the military has historically discriminated against women and less than 20% of military personnel are women. If a state had a law that covered disparate impacts and homosexuals that would also apply.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Account Closed For me $25 per month off a nearly $2k monthly rent is of little consequence. And since I often have more than one home in a neighborhood I view it more as investing in the possible reduction in crime due to a squad car being parked in the neighborhood. However, I did see another post somewhere else where someone was considering offering "free rent" to police officers on the condition that they drove their squad cars home in the appt complex. To me that is extream but $25 a month on a slighly above market rent isn't too much of a burden and I am not too concerned with it impacting my bottom line or the possibility of turning my porperty into a charity. Thanks for your input though!
- @James M Smith Seems foolish . You shouldn’t cloud or mIx up business with your personal desires . If you want to donate to wounded warriors or something then just do that !! but to make special rules and prices for certain people groups In yoUr business could get you into hot water inadvertently. It’s unprofessional. There’s IRS writeoffs for charity work separate from your business for a reason
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Dennis M. Foolish and Unprofessional sounds a little harsh, especially considering the number of large businesses that offer similar discounts, but I appreciate your sentiment. Thanks for voicing your opinion!
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes8y
I do not discount rent but I do waive my application fee for active/prior military. It's only $20 a person but let's them know I appreciate their service.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews I've weighed in on similar discussions in the past, and will echo a lot of the comments above stating that it isn't really a good business practice to offer a military discount, unless there's a business decision behind it. I can't speak for the legality of offering one in accordance with the fair housing act in WA state, but can offer my point of view on the efficacy of the military discount in general.
I'm not really sure what the point is of offering a discount after they've already submitted an application? You've got them in the door on the merit of the product you are selling...why leave $300/yr on the table?
I've seen some malicious actors that heavily advertise a military "discount" for their apartments, when in reality the list price is above market rate, and the discount drops the price to the market rate. Not saying that's what you're doing, but my stance is that any tenant you really want to have is going to select your unit because it meets their needs...not necessarily because you offer a "discount."
However, I recognize the psychological effect of creative advertising, and understand its benefits from a business standpoint. It just churns my stomach when snide businessmen attempt to capitalize on some misdirected sense of patriotism or charity.
Military members are fairly compensated, and receive a more than fair housing allowance that follows local costs of living. They don't really need a "discount" for their residence. What they need are landlords that treat them fairly...the same as everyone else.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Nathan Gesner This honestly sounds like the best of both worlds and a great idea! I think this will be what I implement going forward but instead of waving it I will provide it as a discount on 1st months rent considering mine is $40 per person (paid to the online Credit/Background provider). This was the type of creative solutions that make BP such a great community. Also, given you are in the PM business any thoughts on the original question of whether or not its against Washington's FHL to offer a discount to a person based on Military service, or any other state with such a stipulation in their local FHL? Thanks again!
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Jack P. Excellent points! First, my original question was more of a theoretical discussion point than asking for advice about offering one as I dont look to others to make my decisions for me (as I am sure you dont which is why we are both in RE when most think we are crazy). I have appreciated the different points of view and actually think I will got with Nathan's suggestion from above.
Second, My typical rents are all slightly above other homes in the areas because we always provide a slightly better than market finishes but I do not advertise any discounts at all and likely never will so it is not a marketing gimmic.
Third, for me it is a personal way to say thank you to LE/Military personel who many times don't receive gratitude for their professions and in some cases receive hostility mearly for wearing a uniform. My family has a proud Military Service history and I have close friends who are LE. This is a small token for me to offer directly to a person, potentially since they have to pass all the same requirements as any tenant.
Finally, after pondering on the other comments about "just dontate to a tax deductiable charity instead" I have realized there is no difference in the bottom line. If I donate 25 per month (300 per year) it comes off the top and if I instead give that same amount as a discount in rent it means it has the same potential tax benefit, right? What am I missing that makes donation better than a discount other than not being able to see the personal impact of the "charity"? Different strokes for different folks...
Thanks again for your input Jack!
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes8y
@James M Smith Fair Housing only protects certain classes of people (elderly, families with children, etc.). Military and non-military are not protected classes so you should have no problem providing a benefit to every applicant. As long as it is applied equally, you should be fine.
You do have to watch out for "disparate impact" which basically says that there are ways to apply the rules equally to everyone but then still discriminate against a certain protected class. For example, you could state that all applicants must speak English because language is not a protected class. However, the people that don't speak English are going to be foreigners or minorities, so you are unintentionally discriminating against them. Military service is available to all so it should be a problem.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - @James M Smith As an example imagine a scenario where you have two tenants living in a side by side duplex same identical 1000 sq ft unIts in one building . One tenant is in the national guard another tenant is a firefighter. They are makIng small talk In the backyard when the miltary fella slips out he pays 700 a month and the firefighter asks why he risks his life everyday and pays 750$ for the same housing . Firefighter calls his lawyer and says he’s discriminated against or he gets angry about it and starts looking for a new apartment that respects his line of work . This is just one example of how offering special privilege to some and not others can hurt your business .
- Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 5 votes8y
It's great to honor our veterans. I think discounts to law enforcement officers is also a great thing. The officers in my area are aloud to bring there patrol cars home. The presence of the car and officer creates a more stable investment in my opinion.
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 9 votes8y
@Dennis M. Ok, got your point, however, I am asking about the legality per WA law. I understand your opinion is its a bad idea and I respect that you are entitled to that opinion. Do you mind venturing to respond to the origional question?
@Craig Dell Thanks for your opinion. Your though is in line with mine and since I stack up homes in the same neighborhood I view it as cheap insurance. The secondary benefit is that I keep a pretty decent rep with my local COPs for drive bys on bad actors in the neighborhood etc. Care to venture an answer on your take of FHL related to the origional question and whether or not it could be considered a violation to offer the discount to military?
- Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 5 votes8y
I Don't believe it is a federal violation to offer a discount to Military. I believe it is acceptable most places we go. In my state, contract rules. Meaning if it is in my contract it stands. Of course, i do live in a commonwealth state. Again this is my opinion. An investor should contact a real estate attorney to confirm the laws of your state.
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