Landlord right to enter

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Landlord right to enter

Lori N.
Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
I have a townhouse I am renting. I gave my tenant almost a week’s notice to have someone come in and check the HVAC for maintainence for the upcoming winter season. This tenant is very hard to accommodate because of their work schedule and they always want to be home whenever anyone is doing work in the house so I have always tried to accommodate them. Sometimes this means going extended periods of time to get anything done. While I was at work today I realized that since the HVAC guy was going to be there this would be a good time for me to go by and winterize the pipes saving the tenant from having to make additional arrangements to their schedule for me to come by and do this on another day. Also I had to pay the HVAC guy. So while the HVAC guy was there I went in to the basement where he was working and in that same area checked the pipes. I then went around to the outside of the house and also checked the pipes. The entire time I was there the HVAC guy was there. I did not think this was a problem because the tenant had already given permission for the HVAC guy to be there. However, when I left, the tenant was upset because I had not notified him specifically that I was going to be there along with the HVAC person. He stated that this was a violation of his privacy and that I did not have permission to enter his home. I honestly did not think this was a problem because he did give permission for the HVAC guy to be there and because I am the landlord I would assume that any work I am having done to the house I would have the right to inspect and review. Otherwise the contractor could do a poor job or damage and I would have no way of knowing. I’ve looked online for laws regarding this but only see things about the landlord giving notice before entering-which I had. Any thoughts on this? Is the tenant just being a jerk? Or is there something to this?
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y

You gave him proper notice and the reason for entering. Obviously you shouldn't bring 10 people with you but if you approve an HVAC technician and then decide to go in yourself, that's completely reasonable.

I would just tell the tenant that you are under no obligation but will attempt to tell him specifically who is entering each time.

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  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Should mention the property is in Maryland.

    0Reply
  • Steve DellaPelle
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, NH · Member since 2016 · 460 posts · 276 votes
    7y

    I would refer to your lease on this situation. It sounds like you only gave notice for the HVAC guy to enter and, technically, the tenant would need advanced notice (in my lease it is 24 hours) if you were to enter the premises as well. I believe they are being a jerk but for future reference it would be good for the resident to know that you are going in. If the HVAC guy sees a violation it doesn't matter but if you do, it's a different story. Open communication is the best way to go, good luck! @Lori N.

    1Reply
  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Thanks Steve! Here's the actual writing in the lease:  

    “Landlord/Agent may enter the Premises after due written or oral notice (24 hours) to the Tenant and without Tenant objection in order to examine the same to make necessary repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements or to supply services during normal business ours…”

    0Reply
  • Richard Sherman
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    I agree with @Steve DellaPelle .  However, the tenant is being an a$$.  If it were me (and the property is local to me) I would apologize, say that I did not realize he needed notice that the HVAC guy and I were both going to be there and that in the future I will be giving general notice per the lease of 24 hours and he should assume the contractor and I would be there and we would be doing it whenever it worked and not around his schedule.  Yes, that is going overboard a bit, but it is about boundaries and respect, you were not doing anything wrong, he is being a stickler and an a$$.

    3Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    I agree with @Richard Sherman, and I would tighten your lease language moving forward to read, " Landlord and/or Landlord's Agent" and use that same verbiage in your notice to enter.

    FWIW - this sounds like a difficult tenant.  He would get a demerit on my scorecard for his response, and would raise my antennae.  If it's the only issue you have with him, this might just be "his thing" - either way it's something to note.

    2Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    You gave him proper notice and the reason for entering. Obviously you shouldn't bring 10 people with you but if you approve an HVAC technician and then decide to go in yourself, that's completely reasonable.

    I would just tell the tenant that you are under no obligation but will attempt to tell him specifically who is entering each time.

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  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Thanks Richard, Wesley, and Sherman!  This tenant has definitely raised red flags.  Since I have your attention, can I get your advice on another issue with this same tenant?  The tenant put up a satellite dish on the roof without my permission just DAYS after I had just put up a new roof on the property.  Of course this had to be bolted into the roof so when he leaves and takes the dish there will be holes in the roof that I would have to repair.  I have told him that he needs to take the dish down and will be responsible for any repair costs.  I have found a contractor who can do the repair and the contractor wants to come see the roof tomorrow.  The contractor does not have to enter the house, just inspect the roof.  I have sent the tenant emails three and four days before this inspection is to take place to notify him of this but the tenant is not responding.  So, although I have given more than 24 hours notice, I have no proof that he actually received the notice.  The lease just says that the landlord has to give 24 hours notice, but does this mean that the tenant has to acknowledge receipt of the notice?

    0Reply
  • Richard Sherman
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Lori N. You need to do notice as listed in your lease, which is probably going to be mail or posting notice.  I would put it in the mail to be sure or take a picture of you putting it on his front door.  No way the Dish company should have put that up without permission.  I would 100% take it down and make him pay to repair it.  Hopefully, they did it on an overhang.  NO vendor EVER gets to attach anything to any property I own EVER.  In fact, on new apartments, anyone who wants to set up service and put a pole based dish has to take down any unused dishes on that same property from their company first.

    2Reply
  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Richard thanks for the quick response!  That was a good point about the Dish company installing something without getting approval from the owner.  I hadn't even thought about that.  What I think might have happened is the tenant lied and said he was the homeowner and the Dish company went on and installed it.  I can't say I blame them for that - I guess it would be unreasonable to ask to see the deed to the house.  So now I'm wondering if there is some legal action I can take against the tenant if he falsely signed documentation misrepresenting himself as the homeowner?

    0Reply
  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    A good example of why I use month to month leases.  If a tenant misbehaves, I can quickly deal with it and the important thing is they know it.

    3Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Lori N. the more I learn about your tenant, the less I think about him.

    If the contractor just has to inspect the roof (and not renter) I'm not sure why you are under an obligation to inform the tenant (unless your lease provides for it).  I would get a quote from the contractor and bill your tenant for it.  HOPEFULLY your lease provides for you charging for and collecting repair costs that a third party made at your tenant's direction.  My lease says any of these additional charges are due as additional rent.

    I would bill them and if they did not pay with their next month's rent. I would send them a 3-day notice and proceed that way.  I'd be surprised if they didn't challenge you on these charges if your lease isn't air tight.  If it's not, fix it for next time and be prepared to eat some of this time/money/aggravation as tuition.

    When does their lease expire?  I only offer M2M leases for just this reason.

    2Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Terrell Garren  We were typing the same thing simultanously.

    1Reply
  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Terrell and Wesley, yes I would love to have month-to-month but in this area it's hard to find tenants.  This tenant has a 2 year lease.  And is only 6 months into this one.  Probably definitely won't do THAT long again.  

    0Reply
  • Marc Winter
    Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Well, the old saying is, "the only thing worse than a vacant unit is a unit with a bad tenant in it."  Definitely change some of the verbiage in your lease as per previous comments. Does you lease have a clause that goes something like 'no alterations or changes to the structure to be done by tenant or tenant's agent without written permission from landlord...?"  

    I would call the dish company, let them know they have no permission to install, and have them remove the unit from the roof.  Have a professional roofer go up and inspect/repair, and back-charge the tenant.  

    Your tenant is taking the "his home" idea a bit far imho.  It's your house, they are renting from you.  Both of the parties have responsibilities.  Accompanying a vendor when proper notice has been given, is to me, no where near an 'invasion of privacy.'

    4Reply
  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Thanks Marc, the lease actually says:

    "Tenant, without the prior written permission of the Landlord/Agent, will not remodel or make any structural changes, alterations, or additions to the Premises; will not wallpaper, paint or decorate; will not install, attach, remove or exchange appliances or equipment, such as air conditioning, heating, refrigerator or cooking units, will not drive nails or other devies into the walls or woodwork...

    The installation of television/radio dishes, antennae or cables, while not restricted by Landlord/Agent, as required by the FCC Telecommunications Act, as amended, shall not be installed, by Tenant, in any manner as to cause damage to the property. Tenant shall be responsible for repair of any resulting damage, including water penetration. Tenant shall further be responsible for complying fully with any condominium or HOA requirements for dish or cable installation. Dishes in excess of one meter in diameter are prohibited."

    I called the dish company and they said they don't remove the dishes because the person who got the dish is now the owner of it and it is their responsibility to remove it.  Of course, I don't want him to remove it because I don't want him to have just anyone go up there and remove it any kind of way and cause further damage.  So I am planning on having a contractor do it.

    I did ask the dish company if they can install equipment without the homeowners approval.  They said no, they need the homeowner's approval in writing, so I am assuming that the tenant misrepresented himself as the homeowner and signed whatever form they required.  This seems illegal to me, right?

    0Reply
  • Richard Sherman
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Lori N. I think we are all saying the same thing.  I do not think anyone is saying you need to get rid of him, just more firmly establish boundaries.  The Dish thing would really piss me off, but he might not have known and it might not be malicious (though this guy seems like he is possibly high maintenance.)  If he is paying the rent and overall is ok, then these are items that can be worked around.  Do not get super worked up about this unless he reacts badly.  

    Make sure you add an addendum to the lease that under no circumstances are any modifications that attach to the exterior walls, railings, decks or roof allowed.  I make it a separate piece of paper that we go over with them.  You will be fine, its just some behavioral stuff that needs to be sorted out.

    0Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Lori N.  based on your lease provisions it looks like you have cause to have the contractor remove the dish and back charge the tenant for it.  I would reach back out to the utility company and see if you can get that policy in writing before the trail gets too cold.  You may need to show it to a judge someday.

    Why do you claim it so hard to get tenants in your area?  Regarding the length of your lease - the only tenants that bawk at short term leases are BAD tenants.  Good ones know it affords them the flexibility of moving whenever their job or personal situation merits, and they won't have to breach a contract they signed to do it.  Landlords don't ask tenants to leave just for sport.  It costs us money.  You know, the famous line "vacancy and turnover are the profit killers."  There is no liability in a short term lease for GOOD tenants.  Bad tenants embed themselves into an apartment they are accepted into and try and obligate the landlord until Doomsday with a long term lease because they know they won't be able to find another place easily.

    0Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
    7y

    Do you have a security deposit in place? I would tell them that you are sorry they didn't know that you inspect any work that you have done when possible, in the future you will specifically state it in the notification so they are aware that you might be there when work is performed. I would also not give them more notice than necessary and not give 1 single poop about their desire to be home when work is being performed. I would tell them when it is going to happen, what is going to happen and that you might be there along with the contractor(s). If they can make it work for their schedule, great, if not, oh well. If they have a deposit, I would leave the dish and plan to have a roofer take it off, patch the underlayment and replace the shingles as they see fit and take it out of the deposit. If they don't have a deposit, do it now, charge them for it and if they refuse then evict them. From this point on, I would follow that lease to the letter and make sure they do too. You have been nice enough and if it isn't good enough, then there is no need to be accommodating anymore

    0Reply
  • Timmi Ryerson
    Property Manager · Ketchum, ID · Member since 2016 · 277 posts · 132 votes
    7y

    @lori N.

    I have been reading this thread.  You definitely have a very difficult tenant on your hands.  My take: Since the dish company is required to have written permission from the "owner", I suggest that you get a copy of that paperwork.  If you get the paperwork, and you find that the tenant did sign as the owner, It may actually be a criminal thing.  The clause you have in your lease is very clear.  So you now have reason for finding the tenant in breach of contract not only because they impersonated you, but because they installed the dish which was specifically prohibited.  That means that you can terminate the lease early.  I would explain that to this tenant in writing.  Do it calmly and in matter of fact language.  Explain that they are responsible for damages and that if those damages are not paid promptly you will terminate the lease.  You can use the security deposit to collect for the repairs.  This tenant will certainly do more to "disturb the peace" of your relationship so in case they do pay the damages, do warn that this kind of disruptive behavior will not be tolerated and will be grounds for immediate lease termination.  No one wants an eviction on their record.

    On the first matter you mentioned, I just want to say that in all of my years of having been a landlord (over 30), I have never had a tenant complain that I came with the vendor or repair person after they had been noticed of the entry.  Sometimes I attend and sometimes I don't.  But in this case, I agree with @Nathan G that you gave proper notice.  So I would not apologize for entering. I would explain that the tenant gave permission and that implicitly included permission for you.

    One last thought.  When I meet with a tenant to have the lease signing, I go over the entire lease with them and explain that it is a legally binding contract.  I also explain that they are responsible for abiding by this contract.  And further, that if they do we will get along well.  If they don't they will suffer the penalties that are written into the lease that they are signing .  I also explain that it is part of my job to enforce the provisions of the lease.  I have never had anyone back out of signing at that point.  They appreciated the direct approach.  In the event that I am sending the lease for esign, I have them initial all of the places that are potentially overlooked if they do not read the whole document.  So I can't help but wonder whether you went over the lease with this tenant.  It seems that the tenant may not have been aware that they were not to put up a dish.  That being said it was blatant of the tenant to do so without your permission.

    1Reply
  • Marc Winter
    Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Bryan Devitt, would you then, after paying the roofer from the tenant security deposit, have the tenant bring the security deposit back up to original balance?

    We do a bit differently; the work done by the roofer is charged to tenant under heading like "tenant-caused damage remediation/repair' and it goes on their bill as 'added rent'.  Owner has to pay for the repair, and will be credited when tenant pays.

    If tenant does not pay, we can, (because it is considered added rent), start eviction, if that is what the owner requests.  Late fees, bad check charges and the like can also fall under the added rent category.  

    NOTE:  Not giving legal advice, just sharing how we do it.  Never been challenged in court by Judge in last 20+ years on these points.  (Past performance is no guarantee of future results.  LOL)

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Definatly not a good idea to deduct repairs from deposit. The deposit should never be used for anything other than repairs after a tennat moves out. Using up the deposit during a tenancy leaves nothing for repairs after they move. Always do regular inspections, hire contractors to perform any tenant caused damage and bill direct to the tenant. You then have grounds to evict if they refuse to pay.

    This method insures minimal turn over time and cost. With a quarterly inspection and prompt repairs a unit is always faster to turn avoiding vacancies.

    1Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Marc Winter:

    @Bryan Devitt, would you then, after paying the roofer from the tenant security deposit, have the tenant bring the security deposit back up to original balance?

    We do a bit differently; the work done by the roofer is charged to tenant under heading like "tenant-caused damage remediation/repair' and it goes on their bill as 'added rent'.  Owner has to pay for the repair, and will be credited when tenant pays.

    If tenant does not pay, we can, (because it is considered added rent), start eviction, if that is what the owner requests.  Late fees, bad check charges and the like can also fall under the added rent category.  

    NOTE:  Not giving legal advice, just sharing how we do it.  Never been challenged in court by Judge in last 20+ years on these points.  (Past performance is no guarantee of future results.  LOL)

     I would only use the deposit if deciding to leave the dish there until they moved, then make the repairs with the deposit. This is of course assuming the tenant isn't doing any damage during their stay. If it starts to look like there will be damage at the end, I would not risk the deposit not covering the repairs and I would then deal with the dish issue and charge them for it. 

    1Reply
  • Lori N.
    OP
    Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    @Timmi Ryerson Thanks so much for this reply. You addressed all of my questions. I do have a property manager (he has been performing poorly. I could do a whole separate thread on him). He was supposed to have gone through the lease with the tenant. He says he did but based on other issues that have occurred with him I don’t really know how thorough he was. I have been finding out that there are a lot of things the PM said he did that he basically lied about. The whole thing is a perfect storm, really: bad tenant, bad PM. Nevertheless, the tenant did sign the lease which specifically says that he is not allowed to install anything onto the house, and even more specifically no dishes. I did get a copy of the form he would have had to sign from the dish company which says the person signing is the homeowner authorizing installation but have not been able to get a copy of the actual form with HIS signature on it. Not sure I can get that without a subpoena since the account is in his name. Anyway, I found out today that the tenant removed the dish on his own and says he “made necessary repairs” even though I told him in writing that he could NOT use his own contractor because I wanted to use someone I know to look at and fix the roof. It’s a mess. I’m also worried about the warranty I had on the brand new roof being voided because the tenant went on the roof and “fixed” it.
    0Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
    7y

    Have you roofer go over there, inspect and make any necessary repairs. Bill the tenant for it and remind them that they are not allowed to do anything to the property or hire anyone to do anything to the property without your written permission

    1Reply
  • Timmi Ryerson
    Property Manager · Ketchum, ID · Member since 2016 · 277 posts · 132 votes
    7y

    #Lori N.

    I know about roof warranties because I managed a family commercial building for years and had to get roof repairs and finally replacement.  Any changes made to the roof, especially penetrating incidences that are not caused naturally, will nullify the warranty.  The tenant is/was not authorized to make the repair at all.  But I think that your problem really is the property manager.  If you have evidence that the PM lied on several occasions, you may have grounds to cancel your contract.  I had only one PM whom I hired just after I paid off my apartment complexes.  I thought I was going to be able to rest and relax and enjoy the money that was coming in.. It was a disaster.  I had vacancies going for 4 or 5 months when I had gotten my units turned in maximum of 2 days.  I was amazed about how much money was being spent so I had my accountant come in and do a surprise audit.  We found that they were using our funds to buy  blinds, carpet and vinyl for other properties.  They had even put in sections of vinyl in kitchen areas of some of my properties that did not match the colors of vinyl in a common area. (so bad)  Even so, I was not able to get out of the contract and had to pay the balance of the contract fee to cancel it (judge ordered).  I did that because it would have cost me more to stay until the contract was over. 

    I would get out of the contract you have.  If you do not wish to manage for yourself, do a search for a new company.  You can also hire a person who has experience and then use software to help them become organized.  I recommend Smart Property Systems for software.  I use it and it makes my management tasks mostly automated.  Plus I have no problems like this with my tenants. It also solves the problem of noticing, as there is a built in message center.


    As with all learning experiences in property management, this too shall pass.  I would still notice the tenant and would probably meet with them and discuss this really bad situation.  Depending on the result, I may still evict.  Good luck to you!!!

    1Reply
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