Tenant's personal item was broken during repairs

Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 16 votes

While having flooring repairs done from under the house an antique Christmas garland with glass ornaments fell off the wall and broke. Is it my responsibility as landlord to replace this priceless item? If so what value do I put on something that cannot be replaced?

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Mary M.

Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

(Shrug) i value my tenants and good reputation. Therefore I would do what I could to mitigate loss.

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Dan Maciejewski
Realtor · PInellas County Largo, FL · Member since 2016 · 902 posts · 810 votes
7y
I would think that the renter's insurance would cover something like that. I wouldn't volunteer to replace it, and wouldn't if they asked If you don't require renter's insurance, I would consider starting -- and using this as a reason why. I have a few stories like this that make tenants definitely see the need for it!
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Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Yes you are responsible. Finding value will need to be a conversation. You probably could find an expert that could value for you
1 Reply
Matt P.
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
7y
@Mary Mitchell Interesting perspective. The landlord is responsible for the Tennant not properly securing something the Tennant hangs from the wall. Idk about that one. If the Tennant owned the house and work was being done and this happened who's fault would it be?
1 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
(Shrug) i value my tenants and good reputation. Therefore I would do what I could to mitigate loss.
5 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
Nope. I have in my lease tenant is responsible for any and all personal effects or damages . If you feel bad about it offer to buy her something similar at a fair price . She should have renters insurance .
3 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Dennis M. what kind of comment is that? How does that further the discussion or add value?
3 Reply
Ned J.Pro Member
Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
If you were the owner and occupant of the house, what would you expect? Do you feel that the company that was doing the repair would be responsible? Did they do something unreasonable or negligent to cause the damage? Doing floor repairs from under the house is gonna move and jiggle some stuff around but was it beyond reasonable? Probably not....
So my answer would likely be NOPE..... unless we are talking small $$ just to "settle" and move on, then NO.....
Insurance or go after the guys that did the repair if they feel like negligence was committed....they can deal with it. Just because you hire a company doesn't mean that you are 100% responsible for everything they do
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David S.
Investor · Prairieville, LA · Member since 2015 · 311 posts · 424 votes
7y
@Michaelina Stathakos Here is a little different take on this. Did the worker who repaired the floors have liability insurance? I have experienced workers who cause damage and it sucks. Also, is it a good tenant or is this some type of extortion request for payment from a troublemaker? If it is a good tenant, I may be inclined to give a small credit for the broken item if the repair person did not pay anything or have insurance for this. I know many don't want to pay anything but if was a legitimate issue caused by work under my supervision, I would feel partially responsible for the incident. However, it would not be a blank check either.
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Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
I guess the most important question is: were the tenants warned in advance (with enough time to respond) that the repairs would be shaking the walls/house?
If they were NOT warned in a manner that allowed them to move the item, then how in heavens name is it the tenants fault?
Now, i prefer to treat my tenants as customers and I understand in todays world negative feedback online can ruin a business post haste - so again I would try to work it out with the tenant - if it is a few hundred $? I would pay them.
How to find the value - do a google search - there is some expert out there that can help.
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Michaelina Stathakos
Chairete Michaelina, I'm happy to tell you that you have a golden out here.
On January 7, you show up at the house with a brand-new very large Christmas garland with glass ornaments hanging off it. Apologize for the old garland and admit you understand you can't replace it and what it meant to her family.

But tell this tenant that January 7 is "Orthodox Christmas," and your family reverently follows "the old traditions." While Greeks have celebrated Christmas on December 25 since the 1920s, when your tenant googles Orthodox Christmas and January 7, she'll have to crawl through all sorts of bewildering information on Russians and Old Calendarists on the subject and will undoubtedly give up and believe you.
Of course, the fact that you bought the garland and ornaments for 75% off in the post-Christmas sales when $50 buys an awful lot of Chinese-manufactured Christmas junk isn't relevant at all. You gave this women this garland on YOUR Christmas and it's a memorable, heartfelt gift that doesn't attempt to replace a priceless antique but sparks a new understanding and warm friendship between landlord and tenant.
5 Reply
Mike Chern
Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 25 votes
7y
I guess it comes down did you hire the contractor with the right insurance?
0 Reply
Michaelina Stathakos
OP
Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 16 votes
7y
Thank you all for your quick responses! Note to self: require renter's insurance...I agree it is not a landlord's fault items were not secured properly...I haven't brought up the item in question since she informed me of the mishap, I am going to let it ride and see if she brings it up again. She is slowly becoming a problem tenant, every month it has been one isure or the other, things that our previous tenants never mentioned to us, so I think she just likes to complain. I have told her we would release her from the contract, if she moves out it wouldn't be the worst. I do want to keep a good relationship but I don't have time for a tenant who thinks they are entitled. It is after all our house and if she doesn't like the unit there are many others in the area for her to choose from...thanks again!
3 Reply
Michaelina Stathakos
OP
Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 16 votes
7y
@Jim K. Hmmmmmm! ;)
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Just make sure you're always too sick to go to weddings. They love inviting any Greek who they think has any money at all to weddings. The movie exposed us badly on that.
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Brian Garlington
Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
@Michaelina Stathakos
Maybe I'm missing the obvious.......but last time I checked....not to many people have a "priceless family heirloom" hanging on a wall. Let alone a GLASS priceless family heirloom.
I'm not being negative, I smell a little shakedown here. Maybe they want a break on the rent or something, but .....
1 Reply
Michaelina Stathakos
OP
Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 16 votes
7y
Ha! RIGHT!
Priceless is because it is irreplaceable :/
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Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Michaelina Stathakos was the tenant informed in advance (aka at least 24 hrs) that the work would shake the walls?
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Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
I would tell the tenant that it’s a good thing it’s priceless because I’m not paying anything for it ! Did the tenant have a Picasso , faberge egg or Ming vase that got damaged also ?
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Michaelina Stathakos:

While having flooring repairs done from under the house an antique Christmas garland with glass ornaments fell off the wall and broke. Is it my responsibility as landlord to replace this priceless item? If so what value do I put on something that cannot be replaced?
What does your lease say? It's very common for leases to include hold harmless clauses for these types of situations.
1 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Cant blame the contractor for that .
0 Reply
Milian Bonillo
Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 54 posts · 44 votes
7y
If the scenario were changed and an earthquake caused the decoration to fall from the wall and break, it would likely be that the tenant is at fault for not adequately securing the decoration to the wall. If the repair company carried out the floor repair in a reasonable fashion, with no negligence or wrongdoing, it’s likely that the fault is neither on them, nor the landlord, but seems to be on the tenant for precariously hanging the item.
1 Reply
John Clark
Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
"The landlord is responsible for the Tennant not properly securing something the Tennant hangs from the wall. Idk about that one. If the Tennant owned the house and work was being done and this happened who's fault would it be?"
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If the tenant owned the house and the tenant authorized the repair, the offender and the victim would be one, so the merger doctrine would render the question moot. You cannot be a debtor to yourself.
Here, that's not the case. Workers were doing work to the owner's property for the owner's benefit. The property of a third party (tenant) was damaged. The owner is responsible. There's no "idk" to this one, @Matt P.
And, folks, tenant insurance is irrelevant. Think about it: If you crash your car into another person's car, do you think you'd be able to say "Gee, pal, you have insurance, you can't touch me" and drive off?
1 Reply
John Clark
Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
"I agree it is not a landlord's fault items were not secured properly...I haven't brought up the item in question since she informed me of the mishap, I am going to let it ride and see if she brings it up again."
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Sorry, @Michaelina Stathakos but it IS the landlord's fault for not having the tenant remove breakables from the walls before work was done, AND for negligently hiring workers who were so stupid as not have the tenant remove stuff from walls before they did work that they knew would shake the wall so much that stuff would fall down.
Sing and dance all you want. Require tenant insurance all you want (and the insurance company will go after the landlord in that case). The landlord is responsible in this scenario. Pay the lady.
The tenant being a problem is a different issue. Don't conflate them.
3 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Thoughts:
1. There's no such thing as priceless when it comes to objects. If this were to go to court, a court would assign a value to the item. There's actually no such thing as priceless when it comes to people or animals, either. Cold as it sounds, the court will assign a monetary value to anything in a suit in order to have some method of compensation.
2. If there is any liability, in a court it would likely be a 50/50 split between the company doing the work and the tenant, since I'm assuming the tenant has other things hanging in the house that didn't fall and break, which would suggest the object was not hung securely and that the wall shaking wasn't significant enough to make anything else get damaged.
3. If the company didn't have insurance (your risk if you hire someone without insurance), then you might end up eating it anyway from a legal point of view if you were in a court of law. If they were going to shake the walls so hard that things fell off the walls, it would have been reasonable to let the tenants know before work started.
3a. I doubt anyone is going to court over a Christmas garland.
4. I doubt the cost of this thing is anything more than marginal, surely $50 or less.
5. In the spirit of the holiday I would probably offer to compensate them for it after they told me what it was worth, but if it was anything more than $50 I would make them prove the value independently before I gave them anything else, and if it was significant and my contract with the company didn't waive them of damages, I would file against the company's insurance.
I'd say that's more or less it. You may not have any legal responsibility but you may feel some minor, reasonable moral sense of responsibility. I will add that there are a few shills around the forums that disguise themselves as investors or landlords but are here to act as tenant advocates, so if you have any real question of your legal responsibility you should consult your attorney. I would say that you should always try to do what's right but never do what's unreasonable, and a large dollar shakedown over a depreciated and likely (monetarily) worthless Christmas decoration is unreasonable.
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Michaelina Stathakos
OP
Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 16 votes
7y
So where does it end?...Tell them to take things off the walls, then take books off bookshelves, then place bubble wrap between plates, the lay the TV down before it falls over...sometimes people need to take responsibility for their own actions, requests, and personal items. After all she is the one that requested the work/repairs.
She conflated herself. That's is why I am going to see if she brings it up again...some people like to complain just to complain and she complains way more than any tenant I have ever had. Luckily for her I have a heart and if she needs a replacement she will get one....tis the season ;)
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