Dirty tenant clause in the Lease

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Dirty tenant clause in the Lease

Stan F.
Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes

I have a tenant that is going on 3rd year and their contract is due to be renewed. They do occasionally pay late but within grace period ( I have 5 days). 

I am planning to put them month to month and try to entice promped payments with discount as I raise the rent. 

My bigger question is how much to go into the detail regarding cleanliness/ organization? Is it legal in Pennsylvania if anyone know? 

 They have boxes in the hallways ( it is a townhouse), toys everywhere, dishes stacked, sometimes some trash outside that I pick up during my lawn care/ inspection times, some trash/hair in the bathroom  

I want to give them a chance since I know there is no such thing as perfect tenant and I know I can always rent this place after some fixing up.

The other option is not to renew contract but I don’t know for sure if next tenant will be cleaner/ better organized. 

I created this to add to the renewal notice: 

Addendum to “Tenant will keep the property clean and safe”. Renewal Lease will define “clean and safe” as:

- No boxes/bags in the hallways or walkways or against the walls.Clothing/bags/boxes can be organized in the closets with ability to walk in freely into the bedrooms.

- Floors/Carpets/bathroom floors cleaned (swept/mopped/vacuumed) reasonably (minimum once a month)  

- Separate pet waste from litter DAILY and change litter box at least TWICE EACH WEEK. Place soiledlitter inthe bagsand dispose of itIN THE MAIN GARBAGE CAN OUTSIDE.

- Clothing, toys or other belongingsshould be kept in organized way in the basement/ living room/ kitchenwithout potential on stepping on them.

- Toilet and bathtubs cleaned within reasonat least once a month (no trash/hair in the bathtub or on the floor. Toilet bowl shall be cleaned.)

- Trash must be taken out on the weekly basis. TRASH MUST BE INSIDE AN OUTDOOR TRASH CANS, NOT OUTSIDE ON THE LAWN/MULCH BEDS OR ON THE DECK AT ANYTIME.

- Shed shall be kept organized.

- Outdoor pet food/houses/covers are prohibited on the outsideof the property.

- Kitchen stove/ refrigerator/ microwave/sink must be maintained clean without grease/stains when possible.

- Toys, and other belongings on the Deck and lawn/patio/outdoor areas must be organized and not lay all around the property/yard. Non outdoor furniture should not be stored on the deck  

- Landlord reserves the right to inspect the property with at least 24 hours notice when deemed necessary (pursuing Section 11 of the Lease), but at a minimum every 3 months for routine inspection. I usually try to give at least 1 week notice to allow for you to clean the property.

All the comments are appreciated. Sorry for the long question. 

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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y

@Stan F.

Wow.

Are you gonna be over there TWICE EACH WEEK inspecting the litter box to see if the litter's been changed? Maybe take some shots of cat crap every visit "to document noncompliance with lease restrictions"? I could just see it now, you with a little messaging whiteboard to write the date and time on, pose it above the litter box, get the angle right on the shot, oops, too much reflection off the board, can't read it in the photo, take another...

Then you get all your jpegs together in a little slideshow to show the magistrate on your laptop. "Your Honor, if you would just kindly take a look at this evidence I've accumulated..." and have him looking at cat-crap-candid-camera for fifteen minutes, "No, no, your Honor, one more, just one more, you HAVE to see this next one!"

BiggerPockets, you treasure trove of landlord-tenant comedy, you!

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Sounds like a lot of work to police. I would outline all necessary conditions regarding the exterior of the home but inside, other than enforcing fire safety, it would be a matter of live with it or terminate the lease.

    If they are slobs rules are not going to change them. Better to try new tennats.

    3Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Stan F.

    Wow.

    Are you gonna be over there TWICE EACH WEEK inspecting the litter box to see if the litter's been changed? Maybe take some shots of cat crap every visit "to document noncompliance with lease restrictions"? I could just see it now, you with a little messaging whiteboard to write the date and time on, pose it above the litter box, get the angle right on the shot, oops, too much reflection off the board, can't read it in the photo, take another...

    Then you get all your jpegs together in a little slideshow to show the magistrate on your laptop. "Your Honor, if you would just kindly take a look at this evidence I've accumulated..." and have him looking at cat-crap-candid-camera for fifteen minutes, "No, no, your Honor, one more, just one more, you HAVE to see this next one!"

    BiggerPockets, you treasure trove of landlord-tenant comedy, you!

    5Reply
  • Mike McCarthy
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Most of my tenants live in worse conditions than I could imagine living. But other than dishes and mess all around, nothing they are doing is really affecting the house. No fire issues or anything, so I just bite my tongue and let them pay their rent.

    It’s not my job to be their mother and tell them to wash their dishes. As long as the house is not being damaged and they pay rent, they are good.

    2Reply
  • Mike McCarthy
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    As for the grace period, isn’t that the point of the grace period? My mortgage is due on the first, but isn’t late until the 15th. So I always pay on the 14th. What’s the difference here?

    1Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mike McCarthy:

    Most of my tenants live in worse conditions than I could imagine living. But other than dishes and mess all around, nothing they are doing is really affecting the house. No fire issues or anything, so I just bite my tongue and let them pay their rent.

    It’s not my job to be their mother and tell them to wash their dishes. As long as the house is not being damaged and they pay rent, they are good.

    My point is that I can live with it but just because you don’t seem damage doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I am trying to do an ounce of prevention for the pound of cure. I also think that having hair and trash in the bathroom floor is not really sanitary. I would think it tenant wants to live/rent they would fix it up but may be I am wrong and slobs always will be slobs. 

    Doesn’t it cost more in long run to ignore slobs then try to address it or change tenant? 

    0Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    Sounds like a lot of work to police. I would outline all necessary conditions regarding the exterior of the home but inside, other than enforcing fire safety, it would be a matter of live with it or terminate the lease.

    If they are slobs rules are not going to change them. Better to try new tennats.

     Thank you for response. I am leaning toward that way but I want them to realize that this is not going to be better in the next place they rent. I don’t ask them to continuously live without the mess but at least when I do inspection ( 4 times a year) they will clean up well. That would tell me they really want to stay versus they don’t care. 

    0Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    From what everyone is saying it is not illegal to put those clause in the Lease. But it is hard to enforce.

    I think those clause would be a barometer on how committed those renters to stay. If it is hard for them to clean up well 4 times a year( for formal inspections)  then they don’t respect my property. 

    2Reply
  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Noise, clutter, nuisance - these are all items that need to be communicated to the tenant.  But evicting a tenant over the items is somewhat hard to prove.  If this is a real problem and the tenant is not improving, then simply do not renew their lease.

    By the way - "dishes stacked and toys everywhere,"  is not the landlord's business.  If someone is not tidy, but their clutter is not damaging the property, it should not be considered to be a problem.  Landlords need to have a degree of tolerance to the different ways people live.

    2Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:

    Noise, clutter, nuisance - these are all items that need to be communicated to the tenant.  But evicting a tenant over the items is somewhat hard to prove.  If this is a real problem and the tenant is not improving, then simply do not renew their lease.

    By the way - "dishes stacked and toys everywhere,"  is not the landlord's business.  If someone is not tidy, but their clutter is not damaging the property, it should not be considered to be a problem.  Landlords need to have a degree of tolerance to the different ways people live.

    Ok. Sounds reasonable. What would you consider the border between “different way of living” and maintaining your property well. Let’s split in into two columns. 

    Example: 

    Dirty/greasing appliances- 

    Trash around the kitchen or bathroom floor: 

    Boxes in the hallways ( not blocking stairs/windows): 

    Clothing or toys on the floor causing me to step on them to get to another corner of the room: 

    Belongings piled on the deck/ in the shared shed that don’t even belong outdoors: 

    Toilet bowls never been cleaned: 

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    Listen Your going to give yourself a heart attack by trying to get a slob to clean up . Most tenants are slobs and won’t clean good or care for the property like you that’s why they are renters and not owners ! Your going to have a very difficult landlording career if you don’t lighten up ! You can put. Every little minor detail and regulation you want in the lease but that lease is just as good as the ones signing it ..it’s only good if they actually read it or follow it which most wont anyways .look  If they are paying the rent and not destroying the place then leave them be .your going to be losing tenants money and your sanity by forcing a leopard to change its spots . Your worried about dishes in the sink toys on the floor and some boxes ... geez man who’s your tenant ? Donna reed ? Carol Brady  ? Lighten up bro it’s part of the business . Just make sure their money is green

    5Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    @Dennis M.  the reality is when you go look at a house that needs a full rehab.. that is a home that has been lived in by a tenant most of the time.. so when you buy that fresh rehabbed house and want to know what its going to look like in 5 to 7 years just look at your pictures of the house pre rehab.. 

    There is no way to train or demand that folks that are sloppy are going to change.. it simply cant be done.

    just like most pro landlords use very little carpet.. in most situations it takes less than a year for a  tenant to totally ruin carpet..  I mean they spill the coffee so what. LOL or the pop or what ever. 

    if your going to have all the glory of a landlord this is what your going to deal with on some levels. 

    at least as it relates to C D class and some B..  and of course you can have A class I had a new construction A class that at the end of 18 months it was destroyed 40k to put it back together.. and I got my insurance to pay for it because of how bad it was. it was not normal wear and tear that they wont pay for. 

    But over the years I have had very neat tenants as well..  however having walked through a few thousand C class props over 20 years I think its fair to say 75% of tenants will live in some form or fashion of what is described above.

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    2Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Stan F.:

    All the comments are appreciated.

    OK, here goes. You sound crazy.

    If you give this lease to your tenants, I can only imagine they will be posting it on some renters forums where the advice will be for them to get the hell out of the Bates Motel as fast as possible. 

    Unless it is a health hazard, causing damage, or an outward nuisance to neighbors, how they live inside their unit is not your concern. If they want to keep their clothes in bags in the hallways, that is their decision. If they want to take a bath in a dirty bathtub, that is their decision. If they want their belongings placed in a way that appears completely disorganized to you, that is their decision. And if they want to poop in a dirty toilet, that is their decision. 

    BTW, I'm going to guess you don't have a cat. Asking them to change the entire litter twice a week is crazy. Most new clumping litter is designed to last for up to a month before needing to change it out.

    5Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Dennis M.  and @Greg M.

    Does it mean that for your properties you don’t care if tenants are slobs? 

    I agree with you that I am somewhat new to all of landlord business but I read that longer you keep slob tenants in or ignoring the problem, the more damage will be done to repair when and if they move out.  

    Their money is green but repair money is also green which means I have to put more away on repair budget.  

    0Reply
  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Stan,

    I mostly rent to low income tenants.  So I need to have a high degree of tolerance.  Stoves not being cleaned is almost the norm.  So I buy used, cheaper, appliances.  

    For me to evict someone - it would have to be destructive behavior or destruction to the property.  Not poor house keeping.  For sure, if their belongings are in public / common space, they would have to be moved.  I'd probably move them after giving them warning.  

    The problem is that this type of tenant is more common than you think.  Evicting is a sure way to ruin your financial return.  But a destructive tenant needs to be removed immediately.

    1Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Stan Freydlin:

    I agree with you that I am somewhat new to all of landlord business but I read that longer you keep slob tenants in or ignoring the problem, the more damage will be done to repair when and if they move out.

    I think you are confusing slobbish behavior with destructive behavior and those are two totally different things. Destructive behavior needs to be addressed immediately. Slobbish behavior generally has to somewhat tolerated as long as it doesn't cross the line into harming your property. Asking them to pick up their clothes and put their toys away from inside their home is what a parent does. That is crossing the line. Asking them to pick up their clothes and put their toys away from common areas and shared backyards is what a landlord does. This is not crossing the line.

    I've had tenants that probably couldn't have figured out how a coat hanger works if their life depended on it. Clothes were all over the floor. Dishes always waiting to be washed in the sink. Bathrooms that clearly looked like bachelors lived there. And not a bit of damage when they moved out. I'd rank them pretty high as some of my best tenants. I also had a tenant that dressed in expensive Italian suits every day. They were always pressed nicely. He kept the place very clean. Upon moved out I noticed damaged carpet, broken kitchen tiles, a hole in the door, damaged shower head, etc.

    2Reply
  • Gregory H.
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    7y

    @Stan F. Two pieces of advice. One, you don't like these tenants. You giving them this addendum will just piss them off. Get rid of the tenants and look for new ones. Two, and more importantly, you don't seem to have the demeanor to be a landlord. You are trying to dictate how these people live their lives and it seems that you have more than a little OCD. You might do best getting out of this rental and putting your money into REITs where everything is neat & tidy.

    1Reply
  • Nick Rutkowski
    Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Stan Freydlin

    How do you plan on enforcing these rules? The kitty litter one was funny, Id put a camera right above the litter box.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    My advice is to step back, & stop trying to be in control so much. If they aren’t punching holes in your walls, or making methlabs, or hoarding, I’d say it’s gonna be fine. Seriously, you can’t tell them they can’t have hair in their bathroom.. I get where you’re coming from, I wouldn’t live that way, but you can’t get THAT strict on someone. It’s a little obsessive 

    1Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Sounds like nothing a little elbow grease after they move out wont fix. Seriously. I clean and repair all my units and i have been shocked at times how freaking dirty bathrooms and kitchens can be. But it is just dirt. Glove up and learn to love cleaning.  The next tenant will appreciate how sparkling clean it is. 

    For sure tell them to clean up/not use the common /outside areas. 

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    Remember this simple rule of landlording ;

    If their money is green it’s okay if the dishes in the sink are green too.

    1Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Thank you everyone for responses.

    I will change some of my language in my addendum to be less OCD but I believe there has to be some language regarding good housekeeping practices. 

    If Housing Authority makes one for Section 8 why wouldn’t I want? 

    See the link: 

    http://www.wfha.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/housekeeping_policy.pdf

    My plan is not to be a “helicopter” landlord and not to enforce it to the letter but if issues come up I have this provision to fall on to. 

    0Reply
  • Teri Feeney Styers
    Real Estate Agent · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes
    7y

    @Stan F. I once had a tenant family that lived much as you describe. Clutter that would make me crazy if I had to live with it - every surface stacked with papers, dishes, laundry, etc. However, when they moved out my house was spotless underneath. They got 100% of their deposit back and an additional $15 for the touch up paint they had purchased (and used). The only way I'd worry is if there were a bug or vermin problem as a result of their "lifestyle".

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Stan F.:

    I have a tenant that is going on 3rd year and their contract is due to be renewed. They do occasionally pay late but within grace period ( I have 5 days). 

    I am planning to put them month to month and try to entice promped payments with discount as I raise the rent. 

    My bigger question is how much to go into the detail regarding cleanliness/ organization? Is it legal in Pennsylvania if anyone know? 

     They have boxes in the hallways ( it is a townhouse), toys everywhere, dishes stacked, sometimes some trash outside that I pick up during my lawn care/ inspection times, some trash/hair in the bathroom  

    I want to give them a chance since I know there is no such thing as perfect tenant and I know I can always rent this place after some fixing up.

    The other option is not to renew contract but I don’t know for sure if next tenant will be cleaner/ better organized. 

    I created this to add to the renewal notice: 

    Addendum to “Tenant will keep the property clean and safe”. Renewal Lease will define “clean and safe” as:

    - No boxes/bags in the hallways or walkways or against the walls.Clothing/bags/boxes can be organized in the closets with ability to walk in freely into the bedrooms.

    - Floors/Carpets/bathroom floors cleaned (swept/mopped/vacuumed) reasonably (minimum once a month)  

    - Separate pet waste from litter DAILY and change litter box at least TWICE EACH WEEK. Place soiledlitter inthe bagsand dispose of itIN THE MAIN GARBAGE CAN OUTSIDE.

    - Clothing, toys or other belongingsshould be kept in organized way in the basement/ living room/ kitchenwithout potential on stepping on them.

    - Toilet and bathtubs cleaned within reasonat least once a month (no trash/hair in the bathtub or on the floor. Toilet bowl shall be cleaned.)

    - Trash must be taken out on the weekly basis. TRASH MUST BE INSIDE AN OUTDOOR TRASH CANS, NOT OUTSIDE ON THE LAWN/MULCH BEDS OR ON THE DECK AT ANYTIME.

    - Shed shall be kept organized.

    - Outdoor pet food/houses/covers are prohibited on the outsideof the property.

    - Kitchen stove/ refrigerator/ microwave/sink must be maintained clean without grease/stains when possible.

    - Toys, and other belongings on the Deck and lawn/patio/outdoor areas must be organized and not lay all around the property/yard. Non outdoor furniture should not be stored on the deck  

    - Landlord reserves the right to inspect the property with at least 24 hours notice when deemed necessary (pursuing Section 11 of the Lease), but at a minimum every 3 months for routine inspection. I usually try to give at least 1 week notice to allow for you to clean the property.

    All the comments are appreciated. Sorry for the long question. 

     You can't micromanage these people.

    1. It's not a profit producing activity.
    2. You will go mad.

    Ask yourself this.

    • How does the tenant being messy hurt your ROI?
    • How does it hurt your ROI MORE than the cost of evicting them & doing a unit turnover renovation?
    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    What you should possibly consider is a clause regarding any insect or vermin infestation. Make it clear that will result in a immediate non renew notice. Maintain your regular inspections to keep an eye on things. If they are slobs that should be your biggest concern and be the one issue you should have zero tolerance for as a landlord. Infestations are a sign of far more serious hidden issues.

    1Reply
  • Stan F.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    What you should possibly consider is a clause regarding any insect or vermin infestation. Make it clear that will result in a immediate non renew notice. Maintain your regular inspections to keep an eye on things. If they are slobs that should be your biggest concern and be the one issue you should have zero tolerance for as a landlord. Infestations are a sign of far more serious hidden issues.

     I completely agree @Thomas S. I just don’t want it to get to that point. When infestation is present it is too late. The remedy cost sky rockets and I really don’t want to go to small claims court to get money that I may never see anyways. That is why it is month-to-month renew lease. 

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