Real Estate Agent · Oakland, CA · Member since 2018 · 54 posts · 42 votes
Hi BP community,
I am pretty new to running a rental property. I recently took over managing a property for family in the San Francisco. I was discussing rent and property situation with my tenants, and they got pretty heated and threaten me with legal jargons. I am pretty ignorant of the laws and wondering how should I approach this issue going forward.
Sounds like it might be best to NOT sign a new lease with them. Give them their 30 day notice (or whatever is necessary in your area) and find better tenants. When tenants start "threatening" to withhold rent or start throwing around legal terms, it usually doesn't end well. 99% of the time they have zero idea what they're even talking about.
Is this your property or are you just managing it? From the little info we have, it sounds as if the tenants are mad that their rent is going to go up and they are looking for reasons for it not to.
There is no lease agreement anymore. The old one long expired. So, I want to discuss signing a new lease with an increased rate. They bring many issues about the rental unit and refuse to discuss a new lease. They talk about cutting their rent payment because they spend money to fix issues themselves. They threaten me with legal means and bring it the attention to local anti-gen support groups
Roy, I like your suggestion. I will try to work with them a bit more. I already resolve a few of the issues, but they keep coming up with new problems. It is difficult to work with someone that threatens you.
Sounds like it might be best to NOT sign a new lease with them. Give them their 30 day notice (or whatever is necessary in your area) and find better tenants. When tenants start "threatening" to withhold rent or start throwing around legal terms, it usually doesn't end well. 99% of the time they have zero idea what they're even talking about.
Is this your property or are you just managing it? From the little info we have, it sounds as if the tenants are mad that their rent is going to go up and they are looking for reasons for it not to.
@Louis W. I would research how much notice is needed for non-renewal and get them out. They're already giving you trouble and you want to sign on for this for another year? No thanks!
It is my family's property. I am helping them manage it. Yes, I think the tenants are mad about the rise, and try to scare me from dealing with them. They had gotten bolder and even try to reduce their rent with these problems. Should I hire an attorney to deal with them? I don't think I can manage these people anymore.
@Louis W. I would consult with a lawyer ASAP since California has tenant friendly laws. Find out the best way to get them out and then find better tenants. Do not allow them to intimidate you or they will walk all over you. Get legal help immediately.
In addition to what has already been said ask them for receipts where they have bought material and/ or labor for these repairs they have made themselves. I vet they can't produce any. Of this were to go to court it is about what you can prove.
Document when you talk to the tenant and what you offer them vs their complaints. Possibly have a professional do an inspection of the property to document what really needs to be repaired vs whining.
@Louis W. Property Management requires a skill set that you're lacking. Not saying that you can't learn the job, but you are in over your head at this point. You were kind enough to try to help out your family, but now is the time to turn this over to professionals.
When a long-term lease expires, it typically reverts to a month-to-month rental agreement. Do you have a copy of the most recent lease agreement that the tenants and your relative signed in the past? Gather all documentation you can and take it to a good attorney that specializes in landlord-tenant law for your jurisdiction, someone with a great track record for successful and efficient evictions. I agree, if the tenants are refusing to cooperate and threatening you, they need to go. Then again, the tenancy might be able to be saved with tenant retraining and keen property management. Review the matter with the attorney and they will guide you in the proper course to take for your jurisdiction.
Document-document-document. When tenants start threatening behavior, it's usually from a place of fear. Fear of losing their home. Desperate people do desperate things. Protect yourself and have a buddy with you whenever you engage in conversations with these tenants. Keep all communications calm and professional, preferably in writing. Verbal conversations can be documented after the fact and kept in a communication file for reference if needed at a later time.
As to the current condition of the unit and habitability, now would be a good time to have a third party do a maintenance inspection to document the current condition of the place. Compare this with the move-in inspection check list, hopefully completed when the tenancy began. Address all maintenance and repair needs. Document tenant requests and your response. The key is to make a good faith effort to provide safe, clean, and comfortable housing in accordance with accepted standards for the residential housing industry. Check out the minimum required by HUD.
If your family wants to keep the property and continue to rent it out, then they had best sign up with a great property management company. If you still want to learn how to manage residential rental property, connect with your local rental association and take some classes if they offer them. Also contact the National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM) for more information, especially if you want to manage property for others.
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@Louis W. When people start bringing up social media, laws, etc I would let a lawyer dictate the steps you should take next. Make sure you are managing the property normally though, attending to maintenance issues, etc.
"Anti-gen" may be a reference to anti-gentrification.
From the internet... "Gentrification is a process of renovating deteriorated urban neighborhoods by means of the influx of more affluent residents. This is a common and controversial topic in politics and in urban planning. Gentrification can improve the material quality of a neighborhood, while also potentially forcing relocation of current, established residents and businesses, causing them to move from a gentrified area, seeking lower cost housing and stores."
It's important for landlords and property managers to know and understand the laws applicable to the jurisdiction where the rental property is located, especially landlord-tenant law and non-discrimination laws, better than their tenants. Knowledge brings power.
Tenant unions operate in many municipalities. They can influence state and local law. Be sure to keep abreast of what tenant unions are talking about, as well as the information and resources available to tenants. You need to know what you're up against, should a tenant turn on you.
Serve the 30-day Notice.
You may want to check out Landlordology. It provides direct links to the landlord-tenant laws for every state. Read thru them for some background and general understanding and then consult an attorney or professional property management firm.
A couple of keys points in your interactions with them keep them short, unemotional, and in writing. Listen more then talk. Long verbal discussions can become counterproductive. I would go for the lawyer and get advice on your status now with them as far as a lease and rent increase and how to interact with them.
You generally don't discuss an increase you let them know what the increase will be and they accept it or leave. If it has been a long time since they had an increase that may be part of the issue. Also see if your area has rent control you may only be able to raise rent so much. If you do a lease with them it should be month to month as it sounds like the relationship is rocky..
Ditto on what others have said about repairs but make sure they are repairs not upgrades. not all requests are repairs.
Due to your lack of knowledge you should be stepping away from this situation. You never enter into a battle unarmed. Thinking you can "work with them" is a fools approach at this point. You never "discuss" your intentions, it is not a negotiation. Above all you should not have any further contact or communication with them yourself.
You have two options. Either have your lawyer send a demand letter to them regarding signing the lease and proceed to terminate them or hire a qualified PM and turn the situation over to them. Attempting anything on your own would be a mistake.
Going forward if you are not interested in fully educating yourself on landlord tenant regulations hire a qualified PM. You are not equipped to manage tenants.
I realized that I am too ignorant to do this managing job. What should be my next steps? Hire a property manager? Hire Lawyers?
I commend you for recognizing this and taking action to set a better course.
There may be BP members in the San Francisco area who can give you referrals for both attorneys and property management companies operating in your area. Search the key word "San Francisco" and you may be able to find these folks from discussions they have participated in.
I think you need the services of a qualified attorney first to review your current contract and tenant situation, as well as to provide legal guidance. I'm thinking risk management now because of the threats from the tenants.
It would be easier for a Property Management company to start with a vacant unit, to find a better tenant for you, and to provide ongoing property management with their own contract and management style once the current tenants are gone.
@Nathan G. (from Wyoming) is here on Bigger Pockets and has good advice for finding and working successfully with professional property managers. Hopefully, he'll chime in.
@Louis W. a lot of tenants know that most Landlords don't understand the law. This is particularly true in a leftist state like California where regulations are ridiculously complex and bent to the favor of tenants. They're trying to frighten you and take advantage of your lack of experience/knowledge.
How do you resolve it?
1. Learn the law. If you plan to manage yourself, you need to know the law much, much better than any tenant. You need it printed, highlighted, and memorized.
2. Have an attorney on hand. If the Tenant starts spouting laws and threatening to sue, give them the name and contact information of your attorney and tell them to deal with him directly. Many tenants claim to have an attorney or threaten to sue but it's just empty words.
3. Hire a property manager. This is probably your best option because you can't learn everything you need to know in the nexts year unless you're very diligent in study and research. A good property manager will know the law inside/out and can stand up to bully tenants without batting an eye. Paying them to manage your property can save you more in the end and save you a lot of headaches.
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