Problem tenant demands to speak to my attorney, how to respond?

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Problem tenant demands to speak to my attorney, how to respond?

Tandi H.
Investor · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2017 · 133 posts · 83 votes

We recently purchased a property with two inherited tenants. One of them is a "problem tenant". The previous owner said they were going to terminate the month-to-month lease if they hadn't sold the property to us. But of course it was easier to pass the problem tenant on. We are pretty new to REI and I didn't realize until too late that I should have asked them to evict the tenant prior to purchase. Oops.

Anyway, we purchased the property mid-January and immediatly gave the tenant notice.  We gave them till end of February (a generous 45 days) to move out.

The tenant is a "pot stirrer" and keeps demanding (in emails, our only communication), to speak with my attorney.  I believe they previously worked for an attorney and seem to think they have some sort of legal knowledge or "inside scoop".  I have ignored the request up till now.  Of course I don't want to pay $275/hr to my attorney to field questions, demands, complaints, etc from tenants.  

What is the appropriate response to the demands to speak to my attorney?  This appears to be a person who will drag you down a dark, nasty rabbit hole if you engage with them.  

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y

There's no reason for them to speak with your attorney. If they want to speak with an attorney tell them to go hire one.

You gave them the required notice. There's no need to discuss it with them or engage in debates. Stop communicating with them at all, especially verbally. If they are not out by the deadline, immediately start the eviction process.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    There's no reason for them to speak with your attorney. If they want to speak with an attorney tell them to go hire one.

    You gave them the required notice. There's no need to discuss it with them or engage in debates. Stop communicating with them at all, especially verbally. If they are not out by the deadline, immediately start the eviction process.

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    26Reply
  • Bob B.
    Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I would let them know you are their landlord and your attorney is not involved in their lease, confirm that their move out date is the end of Feb and you will be available for a move out inspection that day and will be glad to provide a reference for their potential new landlord if contacted.  Also make sure you ask them for their forwarding address to their security deposit if applicable.  Just make sure you are following your local tenant laws. They have no right to talk to your attorney unless you initiate the call.

    Come to think of it I've got a couple of legal questions myself.  Could I talk with your attorney on your tab?  Probably not.

    10Reply
  • Tandi H.
    OP
    Investor · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2017 · 133 posts · 83 votes
    7y

    @Nathan Gesner Thank you for the confirmation, and the advice to not communicate.  That was my gut feeling too, just wanted to make sure that was the right choice.

    @Bob B.  Ha!  : ) Good tips  - reinforces that the move out is happening, and that they need to follow the rules if they want a good reference.  

    Thanks for the support!

    0Reply
  • Pat L.
    Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Yes we inherited one that had been in the place 24 years. I initially kept him on to get familiar with all the idiosyncrasies of the multi-unit-farmhouse. He got one of the original owners daughters pregnant so got to stay as their handyman. The subsequent absentee landlord/buyer kept him on as a PM & that was a disaster. He kept two of the units vacant for 3 years & it was so run down so we low balled it & got it.

    After 12 months we gave him the proverbial 30 day & he threatened us with legal action & because he had lived there so many years & had all his pets buried there he felt he was legally entitled to some acreage.  We completely ignored him, changed all the locks to the basement & outbuildings. The day he moved out its was uneventful & he didn't do any damage to the property. 

    Now the psycho hoarder tenant we inherited in the same building was a treat. We doubled her rent to get rid of her but she never complained & just kept paying on time & bringing in more junk. Then she frightened the new tenants we were moving in so we expedited her pre-planned 30 day. Again she threatened all sorts of legal action but just went quietly into the abyss of low income rental. 

    We now have amazing well screened tenants.

    6Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Tandi H. Your instincts are correct. Engaging with a person like this will get you no where. She will hire a lawyer and let that lawyer contact your lawyer if she is serious, which I highly doubt. 

    In all likelihood she is trying to use scare tactics because she knows you are a new landlord.

    4Reply
  • Steve Patterson
    Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Tandi H.

    Post the notice required in your area and stop communications. If they aren’t out, evict them. During these stages I only respond to matters of repair and safety. There isn’t anything to talk about.

    6Reply
  • Tandi H.
    OP
    Investor · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2017 · 133 posts · 83 votes
    7y

    Thank you @Pat L., @Michael Noto, and @Steve Patterson...I really appreciate all the advice!  So far I have not responded. 

    Tenant has sent two more emails in the last 12 hours again demanding to speak to my attorney and saying we need to go to court.  She is saying the “vacate procedures” doc that I dropped off when picking up rent (she wasn’t there) are unfair. I just ask for basic cleaning, fill holes in walls, etc. 

    Should I send one email just saying that if she wishes to hire an attorney they can contact my attorney? Or just stick with total silence? If we go in front of a judge will it look better if I at least responded once? My concern is a judge saying why didn’t I at least respond one time.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Lender · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 626 votes
    7y

    If your tenant worked in an attorney's office before, she would understand she needs to get her own lawyer. All you are doing is following your local landlord-tenant law in the eviction process.

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not an attorney.

    0Reply
  • Steve Patterson
    Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Tandi H.

    I guess I might respond and say that if she needs legal advise she would need to contact her own attorney.

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    Yes we inherited one that had been in the place 24 years. I initially kept him on to get familiar with all the idiosyncrasies of the multi-unit-farmhouse. He got one of the original owners daughters pregnant so got to stay as their handyman. The subsequent absentee landlord/buyer kept him on as a PM & that was a disaster. He kept two of the units vacant for 3 years & it was so run down so we low balled it & got it.

    After 12 months we gave him the proverbial 30 day & he threatened us with legal action & because he had lived there so many years & had all his pets buried there he felt he was legally entitled to some acreage.  We completely ignored him, changed all the locks to the basement & outbuildings. The day he moved out its was uneventful & he didn't do any damage to the property. 

    Now the psycho hoarder tenant we inherited in the same building was a treat. We doubled her rent to get rid of her but she never complained & just kept paying on time & bringing in more junk. Then she frightened the new tenants we were moving in so we expedited her pre-planned 30 day. Again she threatened all sorts of legal action but just went quietly into the abyss of low income rental. 

    We now have amazing well screened tenants.

     The abyss of low income rentals lol sometimes on a calm clear night you can still hear her packing away junk into the apartment 

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    Tell the tenant , attorneys only speak to their client or other attorneys 

    4Reply
  • Karl Smith
    Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 21 votes
    7y

    Tell them to hire their own attorney. I would then start the eviction process since you already gave them notice to move out. 

    0Reply
  • Michael Glaspie
    Real Estate Consultant · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2017 · 151 posts · 144 votes
    7y

    I agree with the comments. Attorney-client privilege is a thing. If they want an attorney they can hire one. You can inform them of such and keep all documentation of your notifications and communications with the tenant. You can also prep conversations with the attorney, sheriffs department, and any other party involved with an eviction process in case it extends that far. 

    0Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Nope....not gonna happen.

    Follow the local laws to a "T" with the eviction and keep moving forward.

    I probably wouldn't go total radio silence..... but don't engage in any debate of any sort. State the move out date, move out checklist, current deposit, your standard charges for certain items/repairs etc....just the facts....no discussion....no debate....no engagement in whatever button she tries to push.

    And state that your attorney will respond to her attorney inquiries and does not reply to tenant direct inquiries, PERIOD.

    3Reply
  • Bill F.
    Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Tandi H.


    I agree with the other advice to ignore the tenant’s demands and on keep on trucking with the process of non-renal and hopefully-not-but-it-sounds-probable eviction.

    If you are feeling frisky and/or want to get a sense of how serious they are, you could tell them that your attorney only engages with other members of the bar and clients, but you will kindly pass on their attorney's info to your lawyer.

    If they hand over a lawyer's info, then you know more likely than not that you need to get one of your own.

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tandi H.:

    Thank you @Pat L., @Michael Noto, and @Steve Patterson...I really appreciate all the advice!  So far I have not responded. 

    Tenant has sent two more emails in the last 12 hours again demanding to speak to my attorney and saying we need to go to court.  She is saying the “vacate procedures” doc that I dropped off when picking up rent (she wasn’t there) are unfair. I just ask for basic cleaning, fill holes in walls, etc. 

    Should I send one email just saying that if she wishes to hire an attorney they can contact my attorney? Or just stick with total silence? If we go in front of a judge will it look better if I at least responded once? My concern is a judge saying why didn’t I at least respond one time.

    I am going to take a different position than some others. I think it is bad idea to completely ignore their requests. I also think it is a bad idea to tell them to hire their own attorney. The last thing you want is to push this to court.

    I would send out a response, so you acknowledge and respond to their request to talk to your attorney. Explain to them that you are following the contractual terms of their lease and if they have any specific questions regarding move-out, they can send those to you in writing. Let them know your attorney is not available to work with your tenants. Tell them you would like to work through any issues, but also state that the move out date is firm and non-negotiable. Tell them if they have questions, you will be happy to respond but if they keep demanding to speak to your attorney, you will not respond, because you have already told them that is not an option. 

    You want to try to work with them. If they are hung up on patching a couple holes, who cares. It would take you 30 minutes to patch the holes. If you can concede something small to make them happy, just do it to keep this from escalating. 

    The reason to respond is if this goes to court, you want the judge to see that you were working in good faith with the tenant. Again, do not tell them to hire their own attorney, that is not your responsibility and you don't need to encourage that.

    My guess is they don't want to move. They probably don't have money to secure a new place to live. They want to stall. If it comes to that, you will need to have your attorney serve notice to vacate. Once you start the eviction process, the ONLY person they can talk to is your attorney. Don't tell them that now, but that is how it will go down.

    5Reply
  • Ed GroganPro Member
    Wayne, NJ · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Your attorney will (should) only talk to another attorney. Confirm with your attorney's office that they will not charge you then give number and there attorney's office should call with questions.

    0Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y

    Hi Tandi,

    I'd be careful, because this person may actually show up in court and be able to make expensive stalling maneuvers. 

    If it were me, I'd make certain that my attorney was in the loop on this and follow their direction (exactly) as to what to do. Just go by the book 100%.

    Have you considered cash for keys?

    Good Luck!

    1Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    I agree with others.  Reply to her repeating that you received her email and she needs to follow the procedures.  If any of the procedures are not clear, she can ask you for clarification.  Keep it short and sweet.

    Do NOT tell her to hire an attorney.

    0Reply
  • Lee Bell
    Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    7y

    Just walk away. Give me the pump ,the oil ,the gasoline ,and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives.
    Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland.
    Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
    I await your answer.
    You have one full day to decide.

    0Reply
  • Lee Bell
    Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    7y

    Just walk away. Give me the pump ,the oil ,the gasoline ,and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives.
    Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland.
    Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
    I await your answer.
    You have one full day to decide.

    0Reply
  • Lee Bell
    Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    7y

    Just walk away. Give me the pump ,the oil ,the gasoline ,and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives.
    Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland.
    Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
    I await your answer.
    You have one full day to decide.

    0Reply
  • Steve Graves
    Rental Property Investor · Lancaster, CA · Member since 2015 · 103 posts · 55 votes
    7y

    I know many will disagree with me but I've done it twice and it worked out great, no lawyers,  no waiting 6 months while not getting rent for the unit and giving them time to trash the place even more. Let them know you need them out of the property in the next 30 days and on the day they're moving out they'll receive a check for double whatever the rent is. Cash for keys, it worked for me. You can throw the principle of the situation out the window. You need to get the unit back in your hands asap and find good tenants.

    1Reply
  • Nick Foster
    Real Estate Broker · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 63 votes
    7y

    @Tandi H., as others have recommended, send eviction notice, ONLY respond to communication from tenant due to safety, follow eviction procedure and law, ignore all the attorney talk from tenant.

    If you do not feel confident in the above, you may want to engage legal counsel who is experienced in real estate evictions in your state to walk you through this, since it may be your first time.

    By no means should you provoke a tenant by stating if they hire legal counsel, than you will. That statement goes against your own self-interest of avoiding conflict, and negatively impacts your property's ROI, as you would then be paying for legal counsel to defend yourself (an expense accrued due to your provocation).

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Mac:

    Hi Tandi,

    I'd be careful, because this person may actually show up in court and be able to make expensive stalling maneuvers. 

    If it were me, I'd make certain that my attorney was in the loop on this and follow their direction (exactly) as to what to do. Just go by the book 100%.

    Have you considered cash for keys?

    Good Luck!

    No cash for keys. This is hardly at the point where that option should even be considered. Landlords are handing out money like candy for no reason in most cases. Majority of tenants will leave when asked. Those who don't will usually leave when served eviction papers. Very few actually show up in court, which means default eviction judgement. If they show up in court and your attorney advises negotiating to get them out, only then should you consider cash for keys.

    2Reply
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