Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
I have a belligerant tenant whose lease expires June 30th. He sent me this message. in response to the lease renewal letter I sent him.
"you cant legally ask me to pay 1/3 of the electric in an illegal apt. not leaving/not signing . Until you come up with a reasonable increase, I will pay what I think is fair."
a) the apartment is NOT "illegal." I have my CCO.
b) he refuses to pay his 1/3 share of the electric bill (while not paying a penny towards the propane, water or trash thanks to my generosity)
c) he thinks he can call the shots on what a "fair" increase is. I don't tell him how much to charge for tattoos in his tattoo shop, he has gall telling me what I can charge him for rent.
He refuses to pay or vacate. Ugh!
I'm not in the mood for spending time or money on an eviction.
Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 293 posts · 383 votes
7y
@Judy P. Time to get in the mood. You have to make it clear that he doesn’t call the shots. What’s in the lease is how it works. If he doesn’t like it, he can leave. There are plenty of other places to live.
Wholesaler · Augusta, GA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 6 votes
7y
@Judy P.
The only options I see are either start the eviction process and once he sees the eviction papers he may get his act right or you might actually have to evict him. You could just let the lease run it's course and inform him that you will not be renewing. Unfortunately either way you have to get in the mood.
Real Estate Agent · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 13 posts · 6 votes
7y
@Judy P.
I would recommend you speak to a real estate attorney regarding your options. Then notify the tenant by certified mail, that the lease will not be renewed.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes
7y
@Judy P. People in tat shots have big egos.
Real big egos! No amount of psychology on your end will make him comply or understand. Play by the rules and get him evicted. Also limit the amount of communication you have with this character.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Judy P.
Immediately pull offer of a new lease, send paperwork for termination of lease with a move out date. Prepare notice to evict for June 30. If I received that email I would no longer offer tenancy, at any price.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Robert Schumacher
I’m curious, how often do you let your tenants decide what their rent price is? My answer is; Never. I set the price and the parameters. I find a tenant that will agree to it.
Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 91 votes
7y
@Anthony Wick I think you missed the 2nd 1/2 of my post. The OP has an upset tenant and I’m smart enough to “Listen” to my tenants point of view. The purpose of asking them what they think is fair is to “start” an amicable discussion, and this is where SALES comes in.
Only a fool would raise someone’s rent from $695 to $725 and lose a tenant. If the discussion led to $710 being fair, I would accept it and be grateful. It’s a math equation and turning a unit over for $180/year is for rookie landlords.
I’m not a “soft” landlord. We evicted 10 tenants during the last 11 months for various reasons. We have 120+ tenants and I value their choice to do business with us, and I’m always happy to listen to their position.
(Renewing a lease is a privilege given to residents that abide by the rules and are not a PITA).
Only a fool would raise someone’s rent from $695 to $725 and lose a tenant.
I would argue that if they are moving over a $30 increase up to market rent, they probably couldn't afford the unit in the first place. I'm also not interested in subsidizing my tenants' housing expenses by absorbing costs of doing business on my end, especially given the conduct described in the OP. Turnover happens.
Broker / Investor / Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 125 posts · 42 votes
7y
Unfortunately @Judy P. you should heed the advice given by the group. As a PM, I can understand how difficult it can be to separate your behavior from your emotions especially when you take the communications involving your business as a personal attack. Just remember though that this is your business. You need to take all actions necessary to keep your emotions in check as you have the most to lose in this situation. If you don't feel that you can separate your emotions or feel that you may behave in a way that will give the Tenant an advantage later, then please hire counsel and have them handle the situation. An attorney has no skin in this game and will handle things accordingly and per the law. When attorneys get involved Tenants will often concede as the Tenant loses the ability to make vague legal threats that you or I might feel carries weight as we don't know the laws, as well as an attorney but your counsel, shouldn't bat an eye at anything the Tenant threatens. Your counsel should be billable back to the Tenant, depending on your lease. Keep calm, hire a pro and issue your non-renewal notice. The tenant doesn't leave, call in your counsel. Tenant leaves, take a breath, strengthen your lease for next time and be better for having dealt with it!
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Robert Schumacher
It’s your business, you can certainly do what you want. But you’re not doing the full math on your generosity. You say you own 120 units? Let’s say you “only” give that $30 discount. Big deal, right?
That’s $3,600 per month, $43,200 year, $216,000 in 5 years, $432,000 in 10 years. I don’t own nearly 120 units, but yes, I will allow them to move if they won’t pay that extra $30 market rate rent. Besides, at $1,000 for rent, they’re going to need at least $2,000 cash to be able to move, just to avoid that extra 30 bucks.
Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 91 votes
7y
@Anthony Wick I posted a different perspective because it’s really easy for everyone to just say Evict the tenant on an open forum. The reality is we are still in a people business and I wanted to stress the situation could potentially be de-escalated with a conversation.
My goal as a business owner/landlord is to be fair but firm, and I will listen because people want to be heard. I’m also firm in that we don’t waive late fees either. I stress that we are all adults and we agreed to “X” pointing back to the lease. It’s worked well for me so far.
I strongly believe in routine rent increases and my tenants are not surprised when they get them, but to be clear, I don’t have 120 Tenants that are asking for a reduced rent or I would be forced to re-evaluate my market conditions. We strive to maintain 94-96% occupancy, and utilize this to ensure we aren’t leaving money on the table.
Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
Some of the decision comes down to how the tenants behaves..... act like a bully and be aggressive or disrespectful to me and its GAME OVER on "working it out"........ If the tenant learns they can be an a-hole and get what they want, you just reinforced that behavior for the next "issue" and this is just the beginning of conflicts. So, yes I may eat some $$ by turnover, but in the long run it's $$ well spent in my mind
Be cool and respectful and I'll "listen" to your perspective and see what we can work out and it really becomes about the $$ lost on turnover vs no rent increase
I got the impression from the OP, that the tenant was less than friendly and respectful about the small increase....not a good sign of how they are going to behave in the future
Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
7y
Update: The belligerant tenant paid all outstanding electric bills he owed, AND he signed the lease renewal at the higher rent. I guess he realized he had a good thing and didn't want to lose it.