Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Removed that old carpet we all love... just when you think you’re going to get lucky and find a nice sheet of plywood underneath, you get stuck with this:
Do any of you experienced DIYers, or contractors have any experience with this? What are the chances of it being Asbestos? How would you handle it?
Could be worse, Brian. The bad news is: 9×9, black adhesive, build is 1920-1960...very high probability the adhesive is asbestos-contaminated, high-probability the tile is vinyl asbestos. Sometimes the black stuff will, curiously, turn white with water exposure.
What was the plan for the floor? This is not the end of the world. Barring special circumstances, all you need to do is encapsulate this floor to remediate it. This is where the thick vinyl plank shines.
If they are 9x9, very high. Looks like vct though but only test will tell. I've read that lighter colors like that are more often VCT and dark burgandy, black is asbestos too.
@Brian Ellis Have you considered just placing a subfloor over it? On raised foundations, we place the Hardiboard or Duraboard right over single tile layers prior to tiling. I see no reason a similar approach with plywood (much less expensive and easier to work with than Hardiboard) for flooring other than tile cannot be done. If you are laying tile then use the cement based boards.
I am suggesting you safely encapsulate the existing vinyl tile and leave it alone.
Could be worse, Brian. The bad news is: 9×9, black adhesive, build is 1920-1960...very high probability the adhesive is asbestos-contaminated, high-probability the tile is vinyl asbestos. Sometimes the black stuff will, curiously, turn white with water exposure.
What was the plan for the floor? This is not the end of the world. Barring special circumstances, all you need to do is encapsulate this floor to remediate it. This is where the thick vinyl plank shines.
Everyone's wallet would say otherwise. Remember, if you remove the tile, you've got to dispose of it, too. Staple down cheap luan plywood with 1 1/4 in. narrow-crown pneumatic staples over it with the staples 6 inches apart. This way you staple in the tiles, too. If the plywood and the staples run you more than $300, I'll be really surprised.
Everyone's wallet would say otherwise. Remember, if you remove the tile, you've got to dispose of it, too. Staple down cheap luan plywood with 1 1/4 in. narrow-crown pneumatic staples over it with the staples 6 inches apart. This way you staple in the tiles, too. If the plywood and the staples run you more than $300, I'll be really surprised.
Covering it with 1/4” plywood would be fine? I believe I can make the floor grade work if I find 3-8” engineered hardwood.
Everyone's wallet would say otherwise. Remember, if you remove the tile, you've got to dispose of it, too. Staple down cheap luan plywood with 1 1/4 in. narrow-crown pneumatic staples over it with the staples 6 inches apart. This way you staple in the tiles, too. If the plywood and the staples run you more than $300, I'll be really surprised.
Covering it with 1/4” plywood would be fine? I believe I can make the floor grade work if I find 3-8” engineered hardwood.
Sorry, Brad, my bad. Yes. Luan plywood is typically sold as 1/4 in.
If this is a long-term rental and all you have to work with is 3/8 in., I wouldn't put in engineered hardwood. I'd put in thicker sheathing plywood and do a thick luxury vinyl plank floor. In cheap, hard-use C/D class rentals like mine, I'm a big fan of 3/4 in. solid hardwood finished-in-place with 3 coats of oil-based poly for its durability and longevity, not its look after it gets beaten up over the years. 3/8 in. engineered will look great when you install it, but it won't hold up to decades of hard use and the kind of light spot-refinishing with a belt sander that I do. Vinyl will hold up better. MDF laminate is not for the likes of me.
If you're selling the place after this renovation, on the other hand, by all means, make it pretty, not tough!
Everyone's wallet would say otherwise. Remember, if you remove the tile, you've got to dispose of it, too. Staple down cheap luan plywood with 1 1/4 in. narrow-crown pneumatic staples over it with the staples 6 inches apart. This way you staple in the tiles, too. If the plywood and the staples run you more than $300, I'll be really surprised.
Covering it with 1/4” plywood would be fine? I believe I can make the floor grade work if I find 3-8” engineered hardwood.
Sorry, Brad, my bad. Yes. Luan plywood is typically sold as 1/4 in.
If this is a long-term rental and all you have to work with is 3/8 in., I wouldn't put in engineered hardwood. I'd put in thicker sheathing plywood and do a thick luxury vinyl plank floor. In cheap, hard-use C/D class rentals like mine, I'm a big fan of 3/4 in. solid hardwood finished-in-place with 3 coats of oil-based poly for its durability and longevity, not its look after it gets beaten up over the years. 3/8 in. engineered will look great when you install it, but it won't hold up to decades of hard use and the kind of light spot-refinishing with a belt sander that I do. Vinyl will hold up better. MDF laminate is not for the likes of me.
If you're selling the place after this renovation, on the other hand, by all means, make it pretty, not tough!
This will actually be my primary residence for a while (5-10 years maybe).
I have been able to find some good deals on engineered floating hardwood, but its just temporary until I can afford a more extensive renovation down the road.
I have no experience with any vinyl, laminate, or engineered hardwood. Do you have any experience with the engineered hardwood?
Yes. The big issue is that while it looks like solid hardwood, it's hard to refinish well. When you leave, you're going to want purty-purty modern-modern stylish floors to appeal to buyers. Whatever you make selling this house, that's straight untaxed profit up to 1/2 million if you're married. This is the best tax deal you will ever get from Uncle Sam.
So your 3/8 in. floor will look good for a few years, and then later, not so good. Refinishing it then is not going to be an excellent option. On the other hand, if you REALLY want the look of hardwood while you live there, commit now to doing it again when you leave.
As usual, I agree with @Jim K. There is no need to remove it if you don’t need to. Asbestos isn’t bad if it’s left alone. Layer of luan over top and be done. There’s no need for crazy expensive remediation whatsoever.
I am sure you don't want to pay it but doing it right and removing it will be better in the long run. To me, it's an easy decision regardless of the costs. You will sleep better knowing its been professionally removed.
I am sure you don't want to pay it but doing it right and removing it will be better in the long run. To me, it's an easy decision regardless of the costs. You will sleep better knowing its been professionally removed.
Agree. I’m the “Rip the bandaid off” type of guy. If I don’t remediate it now, I will have to do it eventually down the road. Just going to have to do it myself I think, I’ll throw on the hazmat suit n mask and go to town. I’d rather not, but I just can’t afford to pay a contractor to do it.
I sent out a sample last night. Hopefully it comes back negative.
I am sure you don't want to pay it but doing it right and removing it will be better in the long run. To me, it's an easy decision regardless of the costs. You will sleep better knowing its been professionally removed.
Agree. I’m the “Rip the bandaid off” type of guy. If I don’t remediate it now, I will have to do it eventually down the road. Just going to have to do it myself I think, I’ll throw on the hazmat suit n mask and go to town. I’d rather not, but I just can’t afford to pay a contractor to do it.
I sent out a sample last night. Hopefully it comes back negative.
You got the stuff, Bri, we gotta give it to you. If it comes back ugly, 3M 7500-series half mask, P100 pink filters. Seal off the area with plastic sheeting overlaps. Review EPA remediation guidelines. Pleaee feel free to reach out if there are any questions you'd like to ask more privately.
With respect, Frank, from the veteran DIYer's point-of-view, after you've done enough jobs like this, you begin to lose faith in remediation professionals. You really know they're never going to take ALL the precautions/be as thorough as you will. I don't have kids but if I did there's zero chance I'd have someone else handle an asbestos remediation in my own house. Same with lead paint, maybe not the same with mold. There's a cynical fear backed by knowledge of the particulars of the job that they'll tell you one thing and do another.
Call a couple remediation companies. Not sure how big the space is but on a couple flips I've done, it was only about $1000-1500 to have the professionals remove the tiles in a 20x25 basement. Why expose yourself to the asbestos and liability of removing it yourself?
Covering is a legit option too....but I always lean towards getting the stuff out of there.
Call a couple remediation companies. Not sure how big the space is but on a couple flips I've done, it was only about $1000-1500 to have the professionals remove the tiles in a 20x25 basement. Why expose yourself to the asbestos and liability of removing it yourself?
Covering is a legit option too....but I always lean towards getting the stuff out of there.
Hi Robert, I sent you a private message. Could you provide me the companies information please?
Definitely get a price to remove. Vinyl tiles are on the lower end of asbestos risk, so the remediation company doesn’t need to follow all the same procedures as if say they were removing asbestos plaster. Still needs to be done correctly of course, but it usually means significantly less cost for everyone.