Constant Landlord Issues

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Constant Landlord Issues

Kat Hughes
Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes

Hi!  

I'm posting for a friend who lives in LA.  Her, along with 3 other friends is currently renting a home.  Apparently, the landlord (also the owner of the house), during the negotiation process asked them to write 12 checks for the rent to cover the entire year, with each one post dated for the top of each month.  They were desperate to find a house to rent and found this and got a good deal but the landlord was not going to let them rent if they don't do what he asked.  So they complied.

A month into moving in, washer and dryer broke and the landlord won't do anything about it.  He said it's the tenant's responsibility.  Now the fridge just broke and landlord again said it's their responsibility and even suggested they should buy a new one cuz it's only about $500.00   My friend and her roommates got someone to go their an fix the fridge, only to find out that the fridge is beyond repair so they ended up having to buy a new fridge which cost them $1500.00

What kind of rights do they have?  And are they able to take any action against the land lord?  Are landlords really allowed to ask for 12 checks in advance?  And are tenants really responsible for fixing appliances that the house came with?

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Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y

Your friends need to learn to read what they sign . I’d be willing to bet they agreed to repair or replace any damaged appliances in that lease . Are these people adults or grown up children because this is pretty elementary stuff . Why did they buy a 1500$ fridge ? Geez ! A new fridge can be bought for around 500$ at Home Depot if you don’t care about digital displays ice makers and stainless steel . In fact I just bought a nice working used whirlpool large capacity fridge on Facebook marketplace for 75$

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  • Kat Hughes
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kenny Dahill:

    @Kat Hughes this honestly is a situation you need to seek more legal advice.  If they're that nervous and stuck footing the bill for what they think isn't their responsibility then paying for legal will provide the closure they need.

    If they want to go cheap, go to a local college law school and see if they have a small claims pro-bono program.

    local college school to find a pro bono lawyer is a great idea.  we'll look into it.

    0Reply
  • Matt P.
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    7y

    @Kat Hughes what's the lease say? They could take the new fridge with them when they leave and stick the old one back in there. Or sell the fridge when they leave to recoup some of the cash.

    1Reply
  • Josh Bakhshi
    Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 359 posts · 158 votes
    7y

    I think Dennis is the only normal response in this thread.  It's not rocket science to look at the lease and most of the time, it's in normal English so you don't need to have clerked for a federal judge to understand it.  That being said, 1500????!!!!!!  WTF.  IF I was a judge and your friends were trying to get their money back after the fact I would laugh at them.  Unless the old fridge was once worth 5K, there is no reason that they need to pay 1500 for a new one.  

    Also remember that Los Angeles is part of the People's Republic of California (I grew up there).  Tenants have all the rights and landlords are put to shame b/c the "own" property.  So your friend might have a case.  

    2Reply
  • Sam Trentwood
    Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @Kat Hughes

    We don't provide appliances in most of our SFR rentals. It is not a standard practice to provide appliance in SFR in our market. When we do, we have specific clause in the lease that states tenants are responsible for all the repairs and the landlord won't be replacing the appliances that are beyond repair. It will become tenants responsibility to get that appliance and they can take it when they leave.

    But we do provide refrigerators in our apartments since it’s a standard practice in our area and all the repairs and replacements are landlord’s responsibility.

    So it’s all depends on what’s in the lease.

    1Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Kat Hughes some states require landlords to fix appliances when they break (Oregon). Other states don’t (Texas). Have them google that. Also a standard fridge costs $500 not $1,500.

    1Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Some of you guys need to stop saying “is it in the lease” and “check the lease”, As the default answer to every question. State law supersedes whatever arbitrary addendum a landlord may try to add to some random lease he printed on the internet. There are plenty of non-confirming and voidable lease clauses that are completely unenforceable by state law

    1Reply
  • Anthony Wick
    Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve B. . So what's your answer then? I'd be willing to bet they aren't getting reimbursed for the ridiculous $1,500 they spent on a fridge. And since California law doesn't require appliances, I'm also betting the answer is, in fact; "it depends on what your lease says". 

    4Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Anthony Wick they likely aren’t getting $1,500 for the fridge simply because that’s not the fair market depreciated replacement value relevant to the broken fridge. that isn’t inherently contra to what I’m talking about. State and local rental laws usually specifically dictate the responsibility of the landlord with regards to who is responsible for repairs of appliances that are provided by the landlord. Here in Portland I have to fix or replace any appliance I provide regardless of what I put in my lease. So again simply pretending landlords can add any phrase in there lease and it’s legally binding is naive. By the way this is also how it works in most contract law not just rental agreements.

    1Reply
  • Anthony Wick
    Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve B. . Ok. The OP said her friend lives in Los Angeles. Perhaps I am wrong, but a quick google search stated landlords are neither required to supply appliances, nor are they required to fix them if their lease states so. If that is the case, then everybody's advice seems pertinent here. And I, for one, always think starting with the lease is definitely a place to look first. 

    4Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Anthony Wick I agree with you, the lease is the place to start and then from there, see if it’s enforceable. Also even if it is enforceable these type of things get tried in small claims court, which is a court of subjective “equity” not law per se. So even if the law is clear you never know what some wacky judge might determine. Also I wasn’t referring to you as one of the ignorant posters, you seem to have very good and experienced opinions on things. There are a couple of guys on this thread that chimed in that I’ve seen consistently give dumb advice based on suspect land-lording experience.

    1Reply
  • Anthony Wick
    Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve B. . "Even if the law is clear you never know what some wacky judge might determine". 

    Truer words have never been spoken. I agree. All I have to do is look at my own divorce decree. Precedence, sometimes, starts with a case/judges decision against you. 

    2Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:

    @Steve B. . Ok. The OP said her friend lives in Los Angeles. Perhaps I am wrong, but a quick google search stated landlords are neither required to supply appliances, nor are they required to fix them if their lease states so. If that is the case, then everybody's advice seems pertinent here. And I, for one, always think starting with the lease is definitely a place to look first. 


    We are in Ca and our initial lease was drafted by an attorney that specializes in RE (we have made changes to it but not to the appliance part) and therefore I assume he knows (actually knew as he died) the law when it comes to appliances. We do not cover repairs on refrigerators, washers, or dryers when we provide them. Many tenants provide their own. When we provide them, we treat them like a loaner. If the appliance can be repaired at a reasonable cost then the tenant is expected to pay for the repair. If the appliance's life is up (the repair is too costly or parts are no longer available) then the tenant is not expected to pay for the repair and we typically replace it with another loaner. The stove/oven, HVAC/Heater, water heater are all items that units are expected to have in working order. We pay for all repairs of those items that are not the result of obvious tenant negligence. I have heard of landlords requesting the entire lease duration be paid for up front. These are typically cases where the perspective tenant did not meet some financial requirement for the unit. I do not know if it is legal but I do know it is done. I think post dated checks is a derivative of this and I do not know if it is legal/illegal. I think a CA attorney specializing in RE could answer if this is legal. I suspect @Katie Lepore can easily find out the answer if she does not already know it.
    0Reply
  • Eric L.
    Rental Property Investor · Royersford, PA · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    @Kat Hughes I would return the refrigerator for a full refund if possible and get a cheaper one suitable for this space. Chances are no one will want to pay to have it moved when the lease ends and it can’t be split 4 way.

    I hope these kids learned something from this; always read agreements before signing and due your due diligence before renting or buying a property (talk to the neighbors).

    1Reply
  • Natalie Schanne
    Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Kat Hughes When I rented my first house post college, I gave the landlord 11 post dated checks because I didn’t want to be bothered to remember to pay him on time. (Kind of like the autopay on credit cards). I’ve since learned that banks will sometimes cash checks before the date on my check. (I gave a check to a missionary a couple years ago and the bank withdrew the money when she deposited it, 2 weeks early, and I scrambled to move $$ in my accounts). Anyway, @Dennis M. is 100% right. Why did they spend so much? You can get a fully working fridge for $50-250 on Facebook marketplace (depending on features) and I regularly buy stainless steel new ones for rehabs for $750 (side by side ice maker) - $1100 (French Door). In California it is more common for people to take the fridge with them when they move because they’re not always supplied. I haven’t seen you write anything that seems unreasonable for the landlord to do. When I moved to Berkeley to go to grad school, I unsuccessfully applied for over 5 apartments with my 800 credit score including one that told me I’d have to prepay 6 months rent because I had “no income”, before I ended up in a room share of a 2/1 for $1000/mo. Rentals can be pretty competitive so the landlord can often tell you the terms.

    1Reply
  • Kat Hughes
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve B.:

    Some of you guys need to stop saying “is it in the lease” and “check the lease”, As the default answer to every question. State law supersedes whatever arbitrary addendum a landlord may try to add to some random lease he printed on the internet. There are plenty of non-confirming and voidable lease clauses that are completely unenforceable by state law

    wow, this is good to know.  thank you! 

    0Reply
  • Kat Hughes
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve B.:

    @Anthony Wick I agree with you, the lease is the place to start and then from there, see if it’s enforceable. Also even if it is enforceable these type of things get tried in small claims court, which is a court of subjective “equity” not law per se. So even if the law is clear you never know what some wacky judge might determine. Also I wasn’t referring to you as one of the ignorant posters, you seem to have very good and experienced opinions on things. There are a couple of guys on this thread that chimed in that I’ve seen consistently give dumb advice based on suspect land-lording experience.

    @Anthony Wick   and @Steve B your correspondence to each other helped me learn something new.  Thank you!  Basically, what I gathered is that the lease is a good place to start with but then compare it with the State Law because in the end, that has more weight because a landlord can't just add statements he/she made up or took from the internet and add it to the lease when really, it's not in compliance with state laws.  

    0Reply
  • Kat Hughes
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Eric L.:

    @Kat Hughes I would return the refrigerator for a full refund if possible and get a cheaper one suitable for this space. Chances are no one will want to pay to have it moved when the lease ends and it can’t be split 4 way.

    I hope these kids learned something from this; always read agreements before signing and due your due diligence before renting or buying a property (talk to the neighbors).

    I hope so too.  I advised them on doing the same. I usually always buy good second hand appliances.  My fridge at my house cost me 200 and it's still in great working condition from when I bought it 5 years ago.  I think these things they will all learn in time.  All 4 of them are in their very early 20's and just all moved to LA.  Lots to learn for them (as do all of us no matter what age we are).

    1Reply
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