We rented our place to a couple but one of them became abusive to the other after splitting up. Both of them are on the lease. What is a way to remove the abuser? It is possible that the victim might want to stay. However, we would like to remove the abuser. Thank you.
Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 60 votes
7y
You won't need to do anything if the victim does the right thing with the police and courts. There will be a restraining order preventing the abuser from being anywhere near the victim or the residence.
*Disclaimer* I am not a lawyer. Any suggesting or advice I give is considered to be for entertainment purposes only. Use it at your own risk.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
If your still collecting rent then it really isn’t a concern for you . Your business is to collect rent not play Johnny marriage counselor and You certainly don’t want to kick out the primary breadwinner over an ethics or social reason. My advise is Don’t be a hero just stay out of it !
Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Lulu Nguyen This is a tough situation for sure. Can the person who will be remaining pay the rent on their own? Has the person who is the victim asked for the adviser to be taken off the lease?
Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
Nicole ..I suspect your too emotional to be a good rental property investor . How many units do you currently manage ? Why would that be bad for my reputation ? I didn’t abuse anyone or get involved And i don’t live there or control who’s allowed there or even their emotions or responses ? It isn’t my responsibility to play referee or marriage counselor . My duty is property management not people manager.If someone’s being abused or exploited they should call the police and or leave . I don’t want to see anyone get hurt but This is common sense . Having someone die in the unit isn’t really that big of a deal from a rental business perspective .you just need to use the right cleaning agents get their junk out of the building and work with the local coroner. Sometimes it can increase cashflow cuz you can raise the rents for the next tenant
@Lulu Nguyen I would simply tell them that if one of them wants to move out, you will take their name off the lease. Leave it at that as it is their decision. There are laws in some places that should the victim want to leave, you are required to let them out of their lease with no penalties (ie no fee for breaking the lease, they are still responsible for everything else they would be at the end of a lease).
Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
Domestic violence is all-too-common and there are no easy solutions either for the victim or the landlord. A few questions that I think are relevant:
What is the source of the video evidence? Where did the bad acts take place? Has the offender been arrested? If so, has the defendant been convicted? Has the victim the financial ability to pay the rent in full?
As managers, we do not get directly involved in domestic disputes/violence, period. We document, contact police to verify the assault, and defer to the legal system. We will not remove anyone from any lease without either a court order or a conviction of a violent crime. As nasty as this business is, and as ugly and dangerous as domestic violence is, don't play cop, judge or jury or social worker. Perhaps refer the victim to the proper organizations that can help them.
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
Nicole ..I suspect your too emotional to be a good rental property investor . How many units do you currently manage ? Why would that be bad for my reputation ? I didn’t abuse anyone or get involved And i don’t live there or control who’s allowed there or even their emotions or responses ? It isn’t my responsibility to play referee or marriage counselor . My duty is property management not people manager.If someone’s being abused or exploited they should call the police and or leave . I don’t want to see anyone get hurt but This is common sense . Having someone die in the unit isn’t really that big of a deal from a rental business perspective .you just need to use the right cleaning agents get their junk out of the building and work with the local coroner. Sometimes it can increase cashflow cuz you can raise the rents for the next tenant
I have to agree with Nicole on this one. I too would feel the need to get involved. If they're stepping across the line on violence, it's not a good sign that they'll make a great tenant anyways. I don't want to promote abuse in any way. If I'm providing housing to someone who's abusing their spouse, they won't rent from me. I don't care if they're the best tenants ever. Sometimes you have to place morals over money.
You would have to first have that tough conversation with the two tenants. Now, the interesting thing is that if the abusive also pays the rent (or half of the rent), then this might be a major quagmire for you.
Yes, it is our moral obligation as landlords to do the right thing, in this case, to evict or remove the abuser from the lease; however, if the mortgage isn't being paid because the victim isn't able to pay the rent by themselves then that becomes another issue. If this is the case, then you might want to terminate but then give the victim some kind of leeway to resettle into another accomodation.
With these situations, a balanced approach is key (one can't be too emotional and one can't be too apathetic either).
We all have to try to be human (sometimes the beastly side can show itself), but the only we exist to help each other at the end of the day (human beings are social animals).
Property Manager · Bowie, MD · Member since 2017 · 120 posts · 67 votes
7y
wow! I didn't expect so many comments to be posted by the time I got back.
I completely understand where @Nicole Heasley Beitenman and @Wil Reichardare coming from, but after being in this biz for a decade in NYC, Baltimore and DC, there are alot of things that you are going to want to react to immediately, but must help out in an indirect manner. This is for your personal, financial and legal protection.
You as a PM DO NOT determine if a law has been broken, or how to best to "protect" someone. Stories and situations change all the time. You can definitely recommend to the victim that there are services available by the city that will assist them in their living situation, like getting a VAWA, or other protection orders. Once you get these orders, THEN you can act.
You can try to lock people out, or take them off the lease, or even make notes in their record. But if these are done without court record permission, you will wind up in court fighting an unlawful eviction, with discrimination and violation of fair housing thrown in for good measure.
wow! I didn't expect so many comments to be posted by the time I got back.
I completely understand where @Nicole Heasley Beitenman and @Wil Reichardare coming from, but after being in this biz for a decade in NYC, Baltimore and DC, there are alot of things that you are going to want to react to immediately, but must help out in an indirect manner. This is for your personal, financial and legal protection.
You as a PM DO NOT determine if a law has been broken, or how to best to "protect" someone. Stories and situations change all the time. You can definitely recommend to the victim that there are services available by the city that will assist them in their living situation, like getting a VAWA, or other protection orders. Once you get these orders, THEN you can act.
You can try to lock people out, or take them off the lease, or even make notes in their record. But if these are done without court record permission, you will wind up in court fighting an unlawful eviction, with discrimination and violation of fair housing thrown in for good measure.
I agree with your point of view. Thanks for providing your insight.
Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 31 votes
7y
How do you know about the domestic violence? Did the victim contact you? or did the neighbors complain? If the neighbors complained, I would try to figure out a reason to evict the both of them. It could provide the victim a forced opportunity to move on/move out to a safer location away from the abuser. The video tape, I would turn over to the victim and/or the police. I would try my very, very best to steer clear of the situation, because dv cases are very dangerous to those that attempt to intervene.
@Steve Braun Why is he a evil person he is right you gonna own 30+ units and play social worker for everybody collect your money and leave it alone you can’t control everything and I don’t either I’m not getting involved unless you are Superman leave it alone. That’s on them pay me my rent and don’t destroy my property and I’m golden.. if they kill themselves then I can’t help that except clean up and re rent and move on.
If your still collecting rent then it really isn’t a concern for you . Your business is to collect rent not play Johnny marriage counselor and You certainly don’t want to kick out the primary breadwinner over an ethics or social reason. My advise is Don’t be a hero just stay out of it !
I could not agree more. I learned a long time ago to stay out of the BS
Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Dennis M.
Not sure why it matters how many units Nicole manages, but my company manages 500 and we would be involved and try to do what we could for the victim. This is a people business. They pay rent. You don’t make any money cutting the grass and fixing toilets. It’s the rent from the people. And having a toxic situation like this isn’t good for business. Also, being so cold about someone being killed is why people dislike landlords. We have tenants all the time rent a bigger house from us insisting they stay with our company after staying in our apartment. I actually signed a two year lease on a place that didn’t have floors or bathrooms yet and they believed me it would like the pictures we showed before they moved in them because they trusted us. It’s possible to care about people and make money. Scrooge isn’t the only rich man.
Regardless of that emotional stuff and trying to help where you can if missing a couple of rent payments is too financially straining, as someone else mentioned missing a mortgage payment, you are super under capitalized and need to be in a different investment vehicle.
Not sure why it matters how many units Nicole manages, but my company manages 500 and we would be involved and try to do what we could for the victim. This is a people business. They pay rent. You don’t make any money cutting the grass and fixing toilets. It’s the rent from the people. And having a toxic situation like this isn’t good for business. Also, being so cold about someone being killed is why people dislike landlords. We have tenants all the time rent a bigger house from us insisting they stay with our company after staying in our apartment. I actually signed a two year lease on a place that didn’t have floors or bathrooms yet and they believed me it would like the pictures we showed before they moved in them because they trusted us. It’s possible to care about people and make money. Scrooge isn’t the only rich man.
Regardless of that emotional stuff and trying to help where you can if missing a couple of rent payments is too financially straining, as someone else mentioned missing a mortgage payment, you are super under capitalized and need to be in a different investment vehicle.
I believe your sincere Josh , but your sincerely wrong and That’s ok because we can’t all be right all the time
2. If yes, is this your jurisdiction/area of investigation?
3. The answers are going to be no, so let's move on to what you should do.
4. Collect rent from your tenants. Advise them if they feel a law has been broken, then tell them to call the police. If they are putting other tenants in harms way, then evict everybody.
5. If they cannot pay the rent, tell the remaining person you are willing to "work with them" in replacing them with a new tenant as soon as you can.
6. You absolutely should not involve yourself in this. You are not a police officer. You are a citizen. Citizens should remain good witnesses, and no more, unless said citizens wish to become the next victims.
7. If your neighbors are fighting, what are you going to do? Call the police. Leave it to the professionals.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Josh C. . What, exactly, would you be involved with? What would you help the victim with? I genuinely want to know. You're a property manager. You are not a police officer, an attorney, a paramedic, an abuse counselor, a nurse, etc. You should manage properties and direct her to the professionals that handle what her current problem is. This doesn't make landlords harsh. It makes us stay in our lane and do what we should be doing.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Wil Reichard . Ok, you want to be involved. You want to help. So what would you do? I'd like to hear from anyone that states "I would get involved". What exactly would you do? List step-by-step what you would do, as a non-professional with zero training in handling domestic violence situations. If you are a professional, then I'd like to hear what you would do as well. BTW: as a professional, what you should do is; declare a conflict of interest and tell your superiors you should not be involved in whatever is going to be done.
Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2017 · 185 posts · 178 votes
7y
@Anthony Wick I’ll take you up on this. I am NOT a professional. I don’t know exactly what step by step actions I would take. I would probably post on bigger pockets and ask which is what OP is doing. I have a clause in my lease agreements which is common that states that violence is not permitted on premises and if police have records of violence on premises, then landlord has right to evict. I don’t know the exact verbiage but in short that’s what it says.
Again, I don’t know exactly how I’d handle this, but I wouldn’t sit back and not do anything.