they babysitting grandkids, extremely disruptive children, can I file a complaint.

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they babysitting grandkids, extremely disruptive children, can I file a complaint.

Eileen N.
Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes

I am a tenant who lives in low income Housing. I have a problem with a tenant neighbors of mine who is a grandma and every weekday from 8am-7pm babysitting her grandchildren.
I have reason to believe she babysitting because from Monday through Friday from 8am-7pm three kids are in her house. And when the mother/father come and pick them up, they walk straight to the directly of the housing parking lot. Obviously they are NOT resident in this housing complex.

And our housing complex have two playground and a basketball court. Each of our apartment, we have our own grass area and stairs. Her grandchildren who everyday in the morning refuse to play at their side of their apartments, but going through my side of apartment, my window, my stairs running up and down loudly. Screaming, also playing with rocks and throwing rocks around right outside MY apartment windows.
Please keep in mind, they also have their apartments windows, why not play at their side? Or why not go to a playground to play, but keep going to my area and play.
Not to mention those kids are not always supervise, sometimes grandma are cooking and doing other things and leave them running around.

Everyday I have to deal with crying, screaming, running of grandchildren who are NOT resident at where I live.
I find this to be unfair and I plan to file an offcial complaint on them. But the housing laws say grandparents are allow to have Guest in their house in the daytime. These children are here every weekday as her guest, and being disruptive to other neighbors.

I know landlord don't like complainer, but I have enough of this. I really want to file a complaint. So my question, as a tenant, do I have the rights to complaint against neighbors tenant who are having disruptive guest in her home 5 days a week, every week?

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Darryl Dahlen
Commercial Loan Officer · Southern Maine, ME · Member since 2009 · 782 posts · 415 votes
14y

Have you tried talking to your neighobor first? Wouldn't that seem the logical first step?

You may be able to rectify situation without having to file any complaints.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Yes, the "rights" you are speaking of are called "quiet enjoyment", I suggest you just speak to the landlord about it.

    If you are in PHA "owned housing" speak the manager or ask to see the Executive Director about it. Good luck....

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Thank you, I will do that.
    I have talk to a on site property manager, and she seem to not care. Since they are children who just playing outside during the DAYTIME. So I plan to bring this to future action and actually file a complain through the housing authorities, they say once I file a complain, the manager have no choice but to investigate and do a follow up to them. Manager is not the landlord. If manager cannot help me, then I think I can go find the landlord.
    I can argue that those kids are not tenant here, they are being babysit, and being drop off to the grandma everyday by someone who is not a resident here. Plus when there are playgrounds in the complex, then they should not have any excuse why to run on other neighbors area.
    Can I request them to check into if those kids are resident here or not? Not to mentioned the grandma might getting pay for babysitting, not that I can prove anything since her son can just lie and say not pay her.
    But living in a section 8 Housing there are rules to not babysitting business. But is just the rules that since they are staying there daytime and do not sleep overnight, that make them only "guest", and they have all the rights to have as much guest as they want during the daytime.

    0Reply
  • Darryl Dahlen
    Commercial Loan Officer · Southern Maine, ME · Member since 2009 · 782 posts · 415 votes
    14y

    Have you tried talking to your neighobor first? Wouldn't that seem the logical first step?

    You may be able to rectify situation without having to file any complaints.

    3Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Tried, don't work. They think it perfectly fine as long as those grandkids are not inside my house.
    So staying one foot right outside my window screaming is fine to them, how about if I do the same thing and see how they feel.

    You don't know, they are Asian family and Asian family are not as honest as you American family. I am Asian so I know, here Asian old grandma can babysit kids and get pay under the table alot. Not saying that this grandma do, since I have no proof.

    My problem here is why do I have to endure noise of children who are not resident here. And also there are playgrounds, why not go there? What make them think they have the rights to chase each others around right outside my window.

    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Correct, you can't have any business activity in the residence. Since the kids are grandchildren, family, that won't be viewed as a business activity, the pay could be for lunch money among family members.....

    Darryl makes a good point, did you take it up with grandma? I assumed you did and being familiar with similar situations in housing I suggested what I did.

    Now, when I was a kid and bugged some older lady, she'd come out waving a broom in the air and chase us off! That may not be prudent now, but you might confront the little ones with what they are doing wrong....

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Thank you Bill, but it not same.
    You were legal resident there. You were not 3 children who are being drop off everyday from 8am-7pm by someone who is NOT a tenant in the apartment.
    Also, you were not right below that old woman window, were you?
    Since there are playgrounds in the housing, I can complain that why they not go there to have their chasing game, but do it outside my window.
    Also, these kids sometimes are not supervise, if they happened to get hurt, or break anyone window, or damage any housing property, I will open my eye wide to see how this grandma response to the laws.

    Many people thinks it is OK for kids to scream outside, but that does not equal to 3-4 hours of long chasing, screaming, crying, jump up and down neighbor stairwell.

    0Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    14y

    There is something know as "Constructive Eviction", If a tenant leaves because they are forced to by the conditions of the property (Like disruptive neighbors) the landlord is responsible. Whether your situation rises to that Level I don't know. I am sure there are tenant friendly lawyers near you.

    1Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    I don't want to get to the legal level yet. I live in section 8 for low income people, I don't have money for lawyer or sue.
    The reason why I ask this is because the on site property manager seem to not care since they are just kids screaming outside. So I want to try to find the landlord and have a complaint. Since on site manager are NOT the landlord, they are just someone the landlord hire to take care the property.

    0Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    14y

    Eileen,

    The manager is personally responsible for their own actions (or lack of action)

    For example; if the manager were driving to the store to pick up supplies for the landlord and ran over a child, the manager would be responsible for his or her own driving. The fact that he or she was working for the landlord at the time doesn't stop them form being responsible.

    However because he or she is working for the landlord, the landlord is ALSO responsible for his employee. In your situation the managers failure to act makes him/her and the landlord both responsible.

    My point is knowing your rights can help you negotiate a fair agreement. Also even if you do not have money for an attorney there are often attorneys or organizations that help tenants for free. I would search Google for; tenant help, Landlord tenant, tenants rights etc to find such a group. Also if you go to rent court they may have attorneys there that help with tenant issues.

    I would make a written complaint to the manager with instructions to forward it to the owner. A little research online may help you find the owner and how to contact him/her

    Good Luck, - Ned

    PS: I am not an attorney, the above is not intended as legal advice. It is my laypersons understanding of the law and an example of what I might do in a similar situation.

    0Reply
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    The grandma is not breaking any laws, so there's little you can do if the management won't ask her to have her grandkids stay away from your apartment.

    The only remedly for your situation is moving. Ned Carey gave good advice in consulting an attorney that may be able to help you get at least your moving expenses paid.

    1Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Eileen, usually there is a legal aid office where qualified persons can get assistance. A simple letter to the landlord might help.

    I suspect that you have not complained much about other things, so don't be afraid to call the landlord and raise heck.

    Again, report the incidents, when the kids are there, what happens and how often to the PHA and the landlord. If you have a phone, call them. We have a saying, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, meaning if you call the landlord everytime those kids are out there he'll get tired of you calling and do something about the kids. He can't kick you out for making complaints.

    Did you talk to the parents? If grandma won't listen they might.

    1Reply
  • Dave M.
    Residential Landlord · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 356 posts · 81 votes
    14y

    http://www.westminster-ca.gov/faqs/categoryqna.asp?id=31#227

    1Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Thank you everyone else for their response, I really appreciated.
    I have already call the higher authorities and speak with them on Friday. They tell me to file a complaint now if I want, but I tell them that I would wait couple more days and see if the property manager do anything about this.
    The management say that the grandma have the rights to have guest, but does that give her any rights to her guest bother any other tenants. It is clearly state in the lease that she suppoes to hold a peaceful environment to other people living here.
    The management say once I file a complaint, the manager have no choice but to investigate and follow up to them. They say the manager can ignore me, but the manager will have to act on it when the higher authorities ask her too.
    So on Monday, I will file an official complaint to the housing management.

    Karen M, I disagree with you. You say the grandma not breaking any laws, and those kids have rights to stay right outside one foot of my window screaming. That mean since it legal, I can do the same thing to your house right? So everyday I go to your house running, screaming, throwing rock right outside your house window and let see if you can take that Monday to Friday.
    Karen, I hope you understand the differences between having guest and having a guest who are disruptive. People can have others over their house that does means that they can bother others. Also this is not just about noise, this is also a liability issue, if those kids get hurt in the time the grandma did not supervise them, or do any damage to the housing property, then there will be a responsiblity issue here.

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Since this is a happen daily from Monday to Friday.
    Is there any laws when it come to people who come near your house within an amount number of feet.
    Not to mentioned those kids are throwing rocks and chasing each others around 1 foot outside my window, this is too much.

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    This is not about guest, this is about I ask those children to go to "THEIR" apartment to play. There is a choice here, they have their own stair, their own tree, also playgrounds and basketball court to play. SO there is a "CHOICE" elsewhelse all this screaming can be done instead of outside my window.

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    When you say section 8 do you mean the WHOLE apartment complex is section 8 or is it a mix of section 8 tenants and regular tenants??

    There is a difference between the two.

    If the Grandma is letting the children run wild UNSUPERVISED you can file a complaint against them.

    You can also have a business in some states in apartments.One of my tenants has a small daycare that is allowed to be operated out of the apartment.

    She is certified by the state and can only have a certain number of children at a time.

    It sounds like the issue isn't the kids but the Grandma not supervising the kids and making sure they behave.

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    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Every single units in this complex is Section 8, this housing complex is running under the Section 8 programs.

    I want to know the laws based on having disruptive children staying one foot right outside my window on a daily basic. This is not fair, and I believe I can persue futher actions if this is not solve because I believe nobody will be confortable of having to wake by and seeing 3 children right outside your window.

    The on site manager didn't really care about my complaint until I told her that those kids are not resident there and I will calling the police. That is when she starting saying she will checking into where those kids coming from.
    But I want to make an official complaint to the section 8 housing authorities, so I can make sure that this manager is actually doing the investigation instead of just saying it.

    If they are children who are residents here, then I have no problem. But since they are NOT children who are tenant here, I feel that I do have required to be put up with all these noises.

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    And I am sure the grandma have no babysit liscense since this are her grandchildren.

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    I mean I do not have to put up with disruptive noise on daily basic by children who are not tenant at where I live.

    0Reply
  • Scott G
    Broomfield, CO · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    If they're being overly disruptive I would just call the police. I've done that several times for late night parties or loud neighbors. That's their job, and you don't have to run the risk of having neighbors who are angry at you, and possibly violent. Something that could be a real possibility in a low income area.

    0Reply
  • Eileen N.
    OP
    Westminster, CA · Member since 2012 · 86 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    There won't be any violent. The Asian grandma be violent with me? I don't think so, I am Asian myself so I know Asian.

    I would like to know the laws on having disruptive non-resident grandchildrend who are one foot right outside my window on a daily basic. There have to be some laws out there to protect people from their house, I don't think is right for anyone to be that close to people house and being disruptive.

    0Reply
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