Sister now feels unsafe: Peeping Tom Situation

Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 34 votes

7y

@Hip Rodriguez

If she subleases to a big brawny guy, that weirdo will disappear ASAP!

Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 34 votes

7y

@Lee Bell

Great idea. But she’ll end up arrested for assault or something and he’ll go on his merry way. Good idea but agree, not to be done!

Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 34 votes

7y

@Jim K.

Apparently he is not in the comfort of his own home but rather outside her window.

As a woman I totally sympathize with her situation and support her getting out of there ASAP. Glad her brother is looking after her and helping out.

No need to wait until she wakes up and finds the guy standing over her bed.

Ryan Proffit

Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes

7y

@Linda D. Being proactive is always a solid choice.

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

The day you can break a contract because of "feelings " at that point there is no need for them . Buyers remorse is a feeling , as is sadness , fear , happiness . The gender of the tenant doesnt matter . What if it were a guy tenant and a woman was exposing herself at the window outside ? No difference . The acts of the population at large are beyond the landlords control and not their responsibility .

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

7y

@Jimmy M. this is a tough situation and I am at a loss to explain why some people are responding negatively. It may help men understand if they imagined their wife or daughter in this situation. Someone who is willing to do this outside her window will most certainly escalate their behavior over time. So this is hardly harmless as some have suggested. Men forget that women are physically smaller and are much more frequently targeted in sex crimes.

The landlord did the right thing. If I have a tenant who feels unsafe, the last thing I would do is force them to stay in a property. A landlord could absolutely be held liable. Once a landlord is notified of a problem, their actions or inaction sets the tone for liability. A multifamily property left unsecured with trespassing sex offenders is absolutely the responsibility of a landlord. The landlord could install security cameras, motion lights, window bars, fences or find other ways to improve security.

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

@Joe Splitrock Every landlord has to make their own decision . BUT once you set a precedent you could be stuck with it and possibly set yourself up for legal trouble . You let female tenant 1 break lease because she feels "unsafe" . You then rent to another female tenant number 2 . And 9 months down the road someone follows her home from the bar and rapes her . Female tenant 1 gets wind of this contacts the second female and says landlord knew the place was unsafe and let me out of the lease . Wont look good for the landlord .

Or now you want to rent that unit and deny every woman qualified or not , waiting for a male tenant , you just got for a discrimination lawsuit .

All are tough choices . When I rent a place , i dont see color , I dont see gender , I dont see race , I look at numbers . If someone wants to leave , I cant stop them , but I will enforce that legal binding contract called a lease .

I believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities

Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 34 votes

7y

Gently speaking I think we are reaching diminishing returns.

Focusing on the problem at hand the group has generated several viable options that her brother can explore.

I would say that keeping it civil with the landlord and avoiding legal threats will probably help get to a solution faster assuming the landlord is a decent person. I live in NY so sometimes that’s a stretch.

John Anderson

Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 1 vote

7y

There are some very disappointing comments on this thread. Jim K, yours takes the cake. Your reply is all based on you, a 40 something, not in great shape, male. I'm not trying to be mean, but nobody wants to rape you. OP's sister might be a total dime(sorry OP), 22 years old & half the size of the guy jacking off. Attractive women need to be concerned about their safety from creepy men 24/7. You and her have life a different life so don't put yourself in her shoes. Would you say these things if it happened to your daughter?

Also, how can you say with such certainty that the OP & his sister have totally fabricated this story? Is it simply not possible that this actually happened? Just watch the news for 5 minutes.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @John Anderson:

There are some very disappointing comments on this thread. Jim K, yours takes the cake. Your reply is all based on you, a 40 something, not in great shape, male. I'm not trying to be mean, but nobody wants to rape you. OP's sister might be a total dime(sorry OP), 22 years old & half the size of the guy jacking off. Attractive women need to be concerned about their safety from creepy men 24/7. You and her have life a different life so don't put yourself in her shoes. Would you say these things if it happened to your daughter?

Also, how can you say with such certainty that the OP & his sister have totally fabricated this story? Is it simply not possible that this actually happened? Just watch the news for 5 minutes.

John, I know you (and some other posters who have taken me to task on this) mean well, ultimately. But I think this whole story is pure Kool Aid, and I'm not drinking it. There's just too much of the helpless damsel-in-distress trope in it, too much withering contempt for naysayers. "My beautiful, innocent sister has a masturbating stalker and the landlord needs to cut her a break or else." This is exactly the kind of cockamamie scheme I'd cook up to break this lease at minimum cost. Down to the letter.

2 Reply

Taylor Angel

Attorney · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 7 votes

7y

@Jim K. You sound like a C/D-class slumlord.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Taylor Angel:

@Jim K. You sound like a C/D-class slumlord.

Have I ever pretended to be anything else on this site? Yes, I rent apartments in Class C, Class D areas to low income people. On the other hand, if this ever happened to one of my tenants, and I trusted they were telling the truth, they wouldn't have to go to a lawyer to threaten me to do something. I'd be out there with a gun and pepper spray over the next few nights to catch this guy.

The first call the tenant would have made the first time she heard the porn would have been to me, and yes, it would have been the middle of the night, and yes, I would have shown up.

That's another of the many reasons why this whole thing sounds so suspicious to me.

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

@Joe Splitrock Every landlord has to make their own decision . BUT once you set a precedent you could be stuck with it and possibly set yourself up for legal trouble . You let female tenant 1 break lease because she feels "unsafe" . You then rent to another female tenant number 2 . And 9 months down the road someone follows her home from the bar and rapes her . Female tenant 1 gets wind of this contacts the second female and says landlord knew the place was unsafe and let me out of the lease . Wont look good for the landlord .

Or now you want to rent that unit and deny every woman qualified or not , waiting for a male tenant , you just got for a discrimination lawsuit .

All are tough choices . When I rent a place , i dont see color , I dont see gender , I dont see race , I look at numbers . If someone wants to leave , I cant stop them , but I will enforce that legal binding contract called a lease .

I believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities

You are basically saying, "if I make one tenant feel safe in my properties, then I need to make all my tenants feel safe". My response, yes that is a landlords job, to take reasonable steps to secure their properties. There is no slippery slope here. If there is a freak trespassing on your property and threatening a tenant, you need to take appropriate action. Sometimes the best action may just be negotiating a lease break with the tenant. Properties in crime intense areas require extra security measures. Fences, window bars, enhanced door locks, cameras and security lights are all options. If you know there are crime issues, you may want to disclose that to perspective tenants. Avoiding problems never puts a landlord in a better legal position. The question in court becomes "did the landlords actions (or lack of actions) make the situation better or worse". Tying something is better than doing nothing.

We may need to agree to disagree on this one.

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

@Joe Splitrock Well the original post said that "she heard porn" Ok what does porn sound like ? Then a "neighbor " said they saw a guy playing with his toy " And then that someone followed her home and Possibly looked in the window . But it wa also said it is thought the same guy is doing this all over Chicago . None of this sounds out of the ordinary for a big city . And IMHO not grounds to let someone out of a lease . Is it not the tenants responsibility to check out the apt they are renting and do their homework ? " Feeling safe" is a state of mind , and if thats all it takes to void a contract , a lease isnt worth the paper its printed on . I agree that a landlord should take reasonable steps to make their place safe .

If not the easiest way to break a lease without penalty would be to throw a rock thru the window , I dont feel safe , Bye

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

@Joe Splitrock Well the original post said that "she heard porn" Ok what does porn sound like ? Then a "neighbor " said they saw a guy playing with his toy " And then that someone followed her home and Possibly looked in the window . But it wa also said it is thought the same guy is doing this all over Chicago . None of this sounds out of the ordinary for a big city . And IMHO not grounds to let someone out of a lease . Is it not the tenants responsibility to check out the apt they are renting and do their homework ? " Feeling safe" is a state of mind , and if thats all it takes to void a contract , a lease isnt worth the paper its printed on . I agree that a landlord should take reasonable steps to make their place safe .

If not the easiest way to break a lease without penalty would be to throw a rock thru the window , I dont feel safe , Bye

Must be regional. It sounds like loud porn, masturbating perverts, window peepers, stalkers and general crime is just normal in Chicago and expected (yikes). Obviously my perspective is different. I don't have tenants throwing rocks through windows to get out of leases. I have had some lease breaks, mostly for job relocation. I work with them on a lease break fee and we part amicably. I have no trouble renting my units, so for me vacancy isn't a big deal. I can see if an apartment was in crime ridden neighborhood that keeping good tenants could be hard.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

@Joe Splitrock Well the original post said that "she heard porn" Ok what does porn sound like ? Then a "neighbor " said they saw a guy playing with his toy " And then that someone followed her home and Possibly looked in the window . But it wa also said it is thought the same guy is doing this all over Chicago . None of this sounds out of the ordinary for a big city . And IMHO not grounds to let someone out of a lease . Is it not the tenants responsibility to check out the apt they are renting and do their homework ? " Feeling safe" is a state of mind , and if thats all it takes to void a contract , a lease isnt worth the paper its printed on . I agree that a landlord should take reasonable steps to make their place safe .

If not the easiest way to break a lease without penalty would be to throw a rock thru the window , I dont feel safe , Bye

That's exactly what this boils down to, however you look at it. It's a highly inventive version of it, but ultimately, it's a blue-plate-special of rock-through-window=get-out-of-lease served with a side of pervert-and-porn.

Another way of saying this is that the OP has made an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. If the OP wants, he can contact me with some means of verifying this story. and I'll do the decent thing and admit loudly and openly I was completely wrong about this. But until then, this has been an damaging, emotion-filled squabble about something that happened on Fantasy Island.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

@Joe Splitrock Every landlord has to make their own decision . BUT once you set a precedent you could be stuck with it and possibly set yourself up for legal trouble . You let female tenant 1 break lease because she feels "unsafe" . You then rent to another female tenant number 2 . And 9 months down the road someone follows her home from the bar and rapes her . Female tenant 1 gets wind of this contacts the second female and says landlord knew the place was unsafe and let me out of the lease . Wont look good for the landlord .

Or now you want to rent that unit and deny every woman qualified or not , waiting for a male tenant , you just got for a discrimination lawsuit .

All are tough choices . When I rent a place , i dont see color , I dont see gender , I dont see race , I look at numbers . If someone wants to leave , I cant stop them , but I will enforce that legal binding contract called a lease .

I believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities

You are basically saying, "if I make one tenant feel safe in my properties, then I need to make all my tenants feel safe". My response, yes that is a landlords job, to take reasonable steps to secure their properties. There is no slippery slope here. If there is a freak trespassing on your property and threatening a tenant, you need to take appropriate action. Sometimes the best action may just be negotiating a lease break with the tenant. Properties in crime intense areas require extra security measures. Fences, window bars, enhanced door locks, cameras and security lights are all options. If you know there are crime issues, you may want to disclose that to perspective tenants. Avoiding problems never puts a landlord in a better legal position. The question in court becomes "did the landlords actions (or lack of actions) make the situation better or worse". Tying something is better than doing nothing.

We may need to agree to disagree on this one.

Joe, I couldn't agree more with you. The facts of the thing just slap you in the face. We have the tech to deal with this particular situation. Someone talked about motion-sensing lights. I just put some in myself. HD trail cameras with infrared and days of coverage run for less than a hundred bucks each. A wired 8-camera system running to a DVR costs $300-$400. I have these things on urban borderline D-class properties I bought for less that $50K.

This purportedly is a 20-unit near Wrigley Field, by any estimate obviously a multimillion-dollar property. What kind of idiot landlord supported by an idiot property manager WOULDN'T take steps to enhance the security of this building at the perception of the slightest need, let alone an extraordinary situation like this? If I owned a 20-unit like this, I would have to be a moron to let it get around that this happened and I did nothing. The brother has already volunteered to put the tenant up. How hard would it be to get into that apartment and the window in question and put a battery-operated trail camera on it to put this stalker away?

This is the sort of story that would be extremely damaging to every landlord-tenant relationship in the building. Even more potentially damaging would be doing nothing and letting the local police believe I did nothing. The cops know code enforcement, the cops know local government. As I've mentioned numerous times here in the forums, if you own an urban property in a problem area, the smart thing to do is to go the extra mile AND THEN SOME to work with the cops. You do everything you can to be seen by them as part of the solution to the neighborhood's problems, not part of the problems.

Granted, we all know landlords too dumb to think about the importance of quality internal and external public relations. But a 20-unit in the Wrigley Field area? Even I've heard about Wrigleyville's ongoing development, three states over.

The story's deeply questionable, Joe. The more I look at it, the less likely it gets.

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Jim K.:

Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

@Joe Splitrock Well the original post said that "she heard porn" Ok what does porn sound like ? Then a "neighbor " said they saw a guy playing with his toy " And then that someone followed her home and Possibly looked in the window . But it wa also said it is thought the same guy is doing this all over Chicago . None of this sounds out of the ordinary for a big city . And IMHO not grounds to let someone out of a lease . Is it not the tenants responsibility to check out the apt they are renting and do their homework ? " Feeling safe" is a state of mind , and if thats all it takes to void a contract , a lease isnt worth the paper its printed on . I agree that a landlord should take reasonable steps to make their place safe .

If not the easiest way to break a lease without penalty would be to throw a rock thru the window , I dont feel safe , Bye

That's exactly what this boils down to, however you look at it. It's a highly inventive version of it, but ultimately, it's a blue-plate-special of rock-through-window=get-out-of-lease served with a side of pervert-and-porn.

Another way of saying this is that the OP has made an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. If the OP wants, he can contact me with some means of verifying this story. and I'll do the decent thing and admit loudly and openly I was completely wrong about this. But until then, this has been an damaging, emotion-filled squabble about something that happened on Fantasy Island.

Come on Jim, why would the original poster want to talk to you? You called him and his sister a liar and then proceeded to mock her. You were trolling him (you know that). No other word to describe it. You were having a laugh at his expense.

I sure would not have tolerated you talking about my sister that way and I know you are a stand up guy, so I doubt you would accept it either.

I think on the internet it is easy to forget that there are real people with real problems on the other side of the keyboard. Try to keep that in mind before going into attack mode.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

@Joe Splitrock

Sadly for me, the fact that you're obviously right has to be acknowledged. There were better ways, and that's a post I wish I could have back, however much I suspect that this is not a real problem.