Tenant says it looks like an explosion down there (basement)

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Tenant says it looks like an explosion down there (basement)

Rental Property Investor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes

A tenant called and stated the basement looks like there has been an explosion down there. He said he went down into the basement and turned off the water after seeing hot water had been coming out of the overflow valve of the hot water heater. It had been going on long enough that mold was on the drywall. The basement was fairly dry before, not finished but had drywall on edges, studs on the interior, poured cement floor, and luckily a French drain around the perimeter. He said he doesn’t go down there very much. In my lease I have the following

Under Repairs

1. Tenant shall take good care of the premises, it’s fixtures and equipment and keep in good working order. Tenant shall immediately notify landlord when any maintenance or repairs are necessary to the premises. Landlord reserves the right to enter the premises for purposes of maintenance and repair when landlord deems necessary.

2. Tenant shall be responsible for the costs of all maintenance or repairs resulting from tenants neglect, miss use, or failure to take good care of the premises.

3. If tenant fails to immediately notify landlord of the need for repair or maintenance, and additional damage occurs to the premises which could have been prevented if landlord had been able to make prompt repairs, tenant shall be responsible for the cost of repairing the additional damage even if the original damage was not tenants fault.

Would this be a situation where the tenant should pay for all/some of the dry wall needing replacement ? Would you consider it a black and white or gray situation ? My handyman who drives by the place often, thinks the tenant has not been there very much lately.

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Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes

6y

It is Not on the tenant...he notified you apparently when he discovered it. You don’t think tenants are required to crawl around in the attic, or crawl under a house with a crawl space, looking for potential items, do you?

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Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y
It is Not on the tenant...he notified you apparently when he discovered it. You don’t think tenants are required to crawl around in the attic, or crawl under a house with a crawl space, looking for potential items, do you?
13 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:
It is Not on the tenant...he notified you apparently when he discovered it. You don’t think tenants are required to crawl around in the attic, or crawl under a house with a crawl space, looking for potential items, do you?
those clauses are all well and good but its just words on paper.. good luck trying to enforce this.. In the real world that is..

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Patricia Steiner
Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Geez...I thought you were going to ask what to do when the tenant sues you for exposing him to mold, decay, and a flooding basement.
Replacing the drywall and water heater sounds a whole lot better, don't you think?
It's your property. Fix it to protect your value and retain quality tenants. And, you'll want to thank him for turning off the valve and quickly reporting the situation to you. (And, your handyman doesn't get to decide how often the tenant is there or not...if the tenant is paying the rent, he's there enough).
11 Reply
Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
6y
@David R. looks like wording from a NNN lease? If the property becomes unlivable, and it sounds close to that, the tenant will just up and leave and you may get sued. You need to fix the problem it is your asset. All the best!
1 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
I will add: why would you allow a tenant to repair anything?? They will do a subpar job, which will cost you more in the short or long run.
Take care of your asset. This is the only way to ensure your investment (ie your money) is not declining in value
0 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
6y
Just fix it ya lazy slug geez man . You want the guy to live in squalor ? It’s your house
9 Reply
Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
The tenant appears to have made a good faith effort to mitigate damage and notify you in a timely manner when he discovered the problem. I would not hold the tenant accountable here. Appliances sometimes fail and can cause significant damage when they do. It could have been worse. Be grateful and maintain a good landlord tenant relationship.
There are some things landlords can proactively do to help prevent situations like this: 1. Perform regular maintenance inspections of their properties 2. Put water alarms or sensor shutoff valves in in high risk areas such as with hot water heaters, washers, fridges with water lines, dishwashers, and in cabinets under sinks. 3. install a DWIP type pan under dishwashers, washers, and hot water heaters so leaking water will run in a direction where it is more likely to be seen and not cause damage. 4. Keep an appliance log which indicates useful life of appliances to anticipate when certain appliances might fail and need replacement. 5. Have sufficient insurance coverage. 6. Require tenants to have renters insurance in place that lists the landlord as an interested party.
4 Reply
Jim Goebel
Real Estate Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2016 · 922 posts · 533 votes
6y
@David R.
Yeah, I'm with most others here. That's not fair to ask the tenant for anything there and I'd bet most if not all judges would agree, even the most pro business, anti tenant ones out there!
There are times when a tenant is really negligent in their 'observations' and 'communication' and although I like that you have some of that verbiage in your lease - the best that it does is allow you to talk through things and set expectations clearly when someone moves in. Only in very, very, select circumstances would a tenant be observed to really be negligent in this way.
0 Reply
Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
@David R.
Hi David,

If it were mine, I'd thank the residents for the heads up on this, advise them repairs will start ASAP, and apologize for any inconvenience in water flow during the repair. (and issue a no hot water on date X at 0:00 am until repairs are done, expecting to be completed by 0:00 pm).

Just my 2 cents.
Good Luck!

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David R.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Scott Mac
I did thank him and the hot water was fixed the next day.
2 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Now if you had installed a $30 drain pipe from the pressure valve leading to a sump pump or other such drain it would have drained away without the spray/misting/soaking damages you experienced until you discovered it. The last one we replaced made quite the noise as it was releasing into the drains. I would also be interested to know if you had an expansion tank on the cold water side as to be code compliant as per most cities. Hopefully you are proactively maintaining the HW Tank with annual flushing etc.

It's a good thing the pressure valve did release otherwise it could have been a lot worse & another reason I converted all ours to on-demand systems.

https://mywaterearth.com/can-your-electric-water-heater-explode/
5 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Pat L.:
Now if you had installed a $30 drain pipe from the pressure valve leading to a sump pump or other such drain it would have drained away without the spray/misting/soaking damages you experienced until you discovered it. The last one we replaced made quite the noise as it was releasing into the drains. I would also be interested to know if you had an expansion tank on the cold water side as to be code compliant as per most cities. Hopefully you are proactively maintaining the HW Tank with annual flushing etc.

It's a good thing the pressure valve did release otherwise it could have been a lot worse & another reason I converted all ours to on-demand systems.

https://mywaterearth.com/can-your-electric-water-heater-explode/
to the extent possible if I had rentals I would put in tankless water heaters.. I am putting them in on all our new construction in Charleston and just did it on 3 I am building in Portland.. buyers like them.. and takes up less space. I suspect they cost a little more..

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2 Reply
David R.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Pat L.
I had a licensed plumber install the thing about 5 years ago. It sounds like a tankless is preferable if it can handle a family of 5-6.
0 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

@David R. I had a plumber install a new HW tank last year at our FL rental & the pressure relief valve failed in 6 months. But 5 years is about the avg life of any HW tanks we have owned over the last 30 odd years regardless of warranties etc. Anything that sits cooking (& consuming NG) at those temps all day has to eventually fail. The tankless would handle 5-6 people assuming they were NOT all showering or doing laundry etc at the same time. I installed one in a SFH with 4 college girls & they loved it as the old 40gall was just not holding up.

Good luck with your repairs its a PITA but it could have been much worse.
0 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
6y
The fact that the tenant isn't regularly going into the basement seems a bit odd, but I guess he doesn't need the space. How he didn't notice the steam, the lack of hot water or the high water usage or hear the running water is a whole other thing. Talk to your insurance provider. For future, you can add an alarm to detect any water on the ground.
0 Reply
Frank Chin
Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
I owned rentals for the last 35 years, and my dad owned rentals long before that.

Having this history, many tenants I run across rent because they have no money to buy real estate, and many others that has no interest or knowledge to handy repairs. I don't use a handyman quiz to vet tenants. My dad was very handy, and I myself have done repairs. I have tenants that even has no idea what to do when a doorknob gets loose, and I explained where the screws are to be tightened. Then one of them told me he doesn't even own any screwdrivers to repair the door knob, as he had no plans to do repairs. Ask if I can bring one over, and he'll give it back to me leaving it in the furnace room for me to pick up. I'm 25 minutes away. Sounds like a good plan to you??

It's a terrible idea to depend entirely on the tenant, especially for an issue as serious as you described. My dad and I had rentals including basements that tenant's rarely use or even go down to. Not only do you have a situation involving safety, and asking them to solve the problem, fix it, and on top of it pay money to fix it, is beyond the imagination, skills and finances of most tenants. And even more ridiculous for an area they don't even use.
1 Reply
Anthony Rosa
Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
6y
Really! As a landlord that is All on You to fix! How is that the tenants fault? He should go after you for not having hot water!
0 Reply
David R.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Frank Chin
There is a TV with chair and storage being used down in the full ceiling height basement with furnace and water heater. This is a single family home where the tenant does all lawn care and snow removal. We have a good relationship in general, he has been there for years.
If the tenant were to leave for 2 months without telling me, and then returned to this, should I have had someone going through the place once a month or more just to make sure everything is good ?
If this were a roof leak that happened in a bedroom they never used that went on for 6 months, and they eventually found a room with severe water damage in it, is there any difference ?
I’m trying to get the theoretics of expectations. Many are advocating self management from out of state, but for a single family home do they have people checking on things on a monthly or weekly basis ? That seems like the only way this may have been avoided.
I’d never have the tenant fix it themselves, the question was regarding costs of repair which I am getting done professionally and expeditiously.
I certainly now see the value in the overflow pipe, and tankless water heaters
0 Reply
Robert D DismukesPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 36 votes
6y
@David Rebuck. Get in there yesterday and get it fixed . Tell the tenant you appreciate their patience while you’re getting it repaired .
0 Reply
Steven Lowe
Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
6y
Who installed the faulty HWH? You or the tenant? Is it under warranty? Have you contacted your insurer?
Sounds like the HWH experienced mechanical failure and they notified you as required. Fix it and move on.
0 Reply
Parker Eberhard
Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
6y
@Jay Hinrichs the upfront cost is more, but they save money in the long run due to efficieny
0 Reply
Bob Prisco
Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
6y
@David R. do not waste your time, fix it , its nothing, new valve, happens all the time. $100 bux installed . Replace the sheet rock its only 20 bux per board , how many can you really need ? Tenant will not pay a penny.

Good Luck
0 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
@David R. does the hot water heater have a pipe from the relief valve to the floor? I think that is required by code in most places and if valve does relieve pressure, the water is directed to the floor. Take that a step further and your tank should have a drain pan, so if the valve or tank leaked, the water goes to a drain.
As others mentioned, leases clauses holding tenants responsible for not reporting problems can be hard to enforce. I wouldn't even try in this case. He may just not have noticed. Not many of us are inspecting our hot water tanks regularly.
0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @David R.:
A tenant called and stated the basement looks like there has been an explosion down there. He said he went down into the basement and turned off the water after seeing hot water had been coming out of the overflow valve of the hot water heater. It had been going on long enough that mold was on the drywall. The basement was fairly dry before, not finished but had drywall on edges, studs on the interior, poured cement floor, and luckily a French drain around the perimeter. He said he doesn’t go down there very much. In my lease I have the following
Under Repairs
1. Tenant shall take good care of the premises, it’s fixtures and equipment and keep in good working order. Tenant shall immediately notify landlord when any maintenance or repairs are necessary to the premises. Landlord reserves the right to enter the premises for purposes of maintenance and repair when landlord deems necessary.
2. Tenant shall be responsible for the costs of all maintenance or repairs resulting from tenants neglect, miss use, or failure to take good care of the premises.
3. If tenant fails to immediately notify landlord of the need for repair or maintenance, and additional damage occurs to the premises which could have been prevented if landlord had been able to make prompt repairs, tenant shall be responsible for the cost of repairing the additional damage even if the original damage was not tenants fault.
Would this be a situation where the tenant should pay for all/some of the dry wall needing replacement ? Would you consider it a black and white or gray situation ? My handyman who drives by the place often, thinks the tenant has not been there very much lately.

Landlord would need to cover cost on this.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:
@Jay Hinrichs the upfront cost is more, but they save money in the long run due to efficieny
ON a new build I have in PDX we just got a 10 out of 10 on an energy audit.. between the tankless water heater and mini splits. And heated floors in the bath room.
this house will run on 50% less energy.. that would attract tenants I would think.
Only issue I would see is the mini splits each have a hand held controller.. I could see tenants either not figuring out how to use them or losing them.. but NO duct work is very nice so mold is out of the game.. things to think about.. I put them in the Two townhouses as well behind this one house .. and I think I will sell one or both of those to buy and hold investors.. and really market the efficiency and lack of the most troubling items for landlords.. which is HVAC and plumbing.. even though these are 475k per door they rent at 2,800. and NO expenses sure beats in my mind the old beat up duplex in our area that sells for 500k and rents for 1200 to 1300 a side.. far less running costs.

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