Evicting for Noise- Mental Illness...
Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes
Evicting for Noise- Mental Illness...
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Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y@Jonathan R. to evict someone for breaking the lease you need to document it, post notices, etc.
If you want to fly by the seat of your pants you will probably get sued.
This is not a time to make it up as you go. At the very least find and contact your local rental owners association and learn your local tenant/landlord laws.
38 Replies
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
You'd be evicting them for noise and disturbing the other tenants, NOT for their mental illness.
- Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes6y
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:
@Greg M.-Noise is VERY difficult to evict for. In most municipalities you have to meet a certain noise level, which has to be measured. If the cops are called and the tenant gets a disturbing the peace charge, you have some ammunition, but they generally won’t arrest for that without many, complaints. You could then probably get possession for a law violation, but only if a Judge agrees. Sorry, but you can’t just evict someone because of noise. You need to wait until there is a concrete lease violation that is presentable to a Judge.
You are very wise. Interestingly, I may have a solution, perhaps a sfh instead of a duplex. I have one about to be finished that might be perfect, I'm still evaluating him day to day, certainly to make sure he isn't destructive to my property. I might have a street perfect for him where he can be a bit loud, though I won't tell him that. :)
- 6yPatti RobertsonBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
I alway think inside my head, dang - a single family property would be so much more suited for this disabled vet suffering from PTSD than this apartment they are applying for. I don’t say that out loud though. You can share what you have available but if the prospect chooses a multi-unit, you can’t deny them on the basis of the disability. Fair housing lawsuits have huge penalties attached. It’s not worth violating the law, even if you really think you are acting in the best interest of the vet - and your other tenants.
- Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes6y
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:
I alway think inside my head, dang - a single family property would be so much more suited for this disabled vet suffering from PTSD than this apartment they are applying for. I don’t say that out loud though. You can share what you have available but if the prospect chooses a multi-unit, you can’t deny them on the basis of the disability. Fair housing lawsuits have huge penalties attached. It’s not worth violating the law, even if you really think you are acting in the best interest of the vet - and your other tenants.
I think I'm going to show the property to his case worker, her and I are friendly and she knows what is going on, she'll make it happen. The property is an upgrade, no brainer. It will take some time for Section 8 to do all the paperwork but we can get him moved over. Again, still watching him to make sure I can place him in something else I own. I feel bad for the guy, he has to go somewhere. I think I might currently own that somewhere.
- 6yPatti RobertsonBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Jonathan R. - Talking to his VA case worker is a great idea. The HCV case workers don't generally get involved in the tenant's personal lives, but the VA caseworkers do.
- Renter · Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 0 votes3y“This idiot”? “The law protects this moron from ever being held accountable to his actions”?You’re breaking the law if you knowingly lie for this guy asking the question. The “mentally ill”guy needs a place to live. He can’t help it if he’s having episodes. You don’t seem to understand. If people like you were running things these people would be put in institutions. You seem to have no sympathy for the mentally ill. This response really didn’t sit well with me. For all you know the medications he’s on could be causing hell for him. Antipsychotics are known to give people wicked side effects like Akathisia and TD. You can rot for all I care. You guys are the scum of the earth. You make people’s lives a living hell.
Quote from @Dennis M.:
Call section 8 and inform them he’s disturbing the peace and quiet enjoyment . I’d send him a formal notice too to cover your butt . You may need to formally evict this idiot . I hope your section 8 is better than mine is . Absolutely make no mention of his illness or his mental conniption fits even though this is common sense ,the law protects this moron from ever being held accountable to his actions .
I guess you could say I have a similiar situation going on but the guy plays his stereo loud at eleven and talks to himself . He does pay rent though ! Mental illness is no joke in these low income areas it’s very prevalent and you gotta dance around this being he’s a protected class . Where is the landlord protection ? Are we not a protected class for all the crap and drama we put up with to house the community misfits no one wants ?
- Renter · Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 0 votes3yYou realize these posts are PUBLIC?? Like if you did do anything to your tenant I now have proof with screen shots.
Quote from @Jonathan R.:
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:
@Greg M.-Noise is VERY difficult to evict for. In most municipalities you have to meet a certain noise level, which has to be measured. If the cops are called and the tenant gets a disturbing the peace charge, you have some ammunition, but they generally won’t arrest for that without many, complaints. You could then probably get possession for a law violation, but only if a Judge agrees. Sorry, but you can’t just evict someone because of noise. You need to wait until there is a concrete lease violation that is presentable to a Judge.
You are very wise. Interestingly, I may have a solution, perhaps a sfh instead of a duplex. I have one about to be finished that might be perfect, I'm still evaluating him day to day, certainly to make sure he isn't destructive to my property. I might have a street perfect for him where he can be a bit loud, though I won't tell him that. :)
- Renter · Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 0 votes3yThis is really sad. You wonder why you have such bad relationships with your tenants. You guys are nasty. If the guy is mentally ill what you just said to do makes me pretty angry. You seem to not know what mental illness is and seem to think the guy is faking it.
Quote from @Account Closed:
I actually have a Section 8 voucher myself now, and I'm a retired property manager.
Laws regarding discrimination and disabilities are only there to give a disabled person equal access. Not a right to do anything they want to do, because they are disabled.
So, you gave this applicant an equal opportunity to be a good tenant and abide by the lease. Good for you.
So, now everything is equal, as if all tenants had equal rights. And, now all tenants must adhere to the lease.
You now have a tenant, disabled or not, who must abide by the lease. You have the right to enforce the lease.
If you're capable of understanding your contract with the housing authority, and to look up the fair housing laws, in case anybody wants to try and say you have to let disabled tenants get away with more than non-disabled tenants, you can quote the law back at them that they're wrong, and I don't see a need to hire a lawyer, then, either.
Just learn what you need to do to keep in good with the public housing authority, or PHA, with regard to notifying them that a tenant is breaching the terms of the lease, and if you legally need to do anything to appease them before posting a notice to quit, etc. But, this does not include you needing to get involved in your tenant's mental illness treatment. That's not your problem.
I do believe you may need to give a Section 8 tenant a chance to fix the problem, depending on the problem, and maybe you can only kick them out "for cause," but that shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
In your post where you say you like the guy and your preference would be for him to stay - I think that's a bad idea. This tenant has become an immediate big problem. You need to be nice to your good tenants, in order to keep them, in my opinion. That's where your loyalty would be more appropriate.
It's too bad he can't behave in a multi-family setting, but that's on him to have learned. I think sometimes some social workers bluff landlords into thinking they need to take any disabled tenant or even a homeless applicant. I've seen some behave in an intimidating, arrogant manner that would work on someone who didn't know the law and their rights. It never worked on me. Landlords really need to completely understand their right to say no to "reasonable accommodations," and any applicant who happens to belong to a protected class - just because someone's in a protected class doesn't mean I have to allow them if they also smoke and I don't allow smoking, or because they have an emotional support dog that's a pit bull, etc. It makes me mad when landlords are taken advantage of, just as much as when tenants are, but it's on the landlords to learn their rights so you can stand up to some of these bully social workers, and yes, some of them are bullies.
Anyway, I'm curious as to whether he had any landlord references? You don't have to take anyone who has Section 8. You can still have criteria, even tough criteria. The place I'm in now, I had to jump through major hoops to get approved. And, I had to come up with a substantial security deposit of one month's rent in expensive Silicon Valley.
You can find Section 8 tenants with good references and good credit. They're just low income - like me, as a senior on a low fixed-income. Not all Section 8 tenants have bad credit and references. And there are so few landlords who accept Section 8, outside of LIHTC properties, it seems to me you should be able to be fairly picky.
Anyway, no more Mr. Nice Guy with this guy. He needs to shut up or get out. IMHO.
- Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes3y
Quote from @Meg McGath:
You realize these posts are PUBLIC?? Like if you did do anything to your tenant I now have proof with screen shots.Quote from @Jonathan R.:
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:
@Greg M.-Noise is VERY difficult to evict for. In most municipalities you have to meet a certain noise level, which has to be measured. If the cops are called and the tenant gets a disturbing the peace charge, you have some ammunition, but they generally won’t arrest for that without many, complaints. You could then probably get possession for a law violation, but only if a Judge agrees. Sorry, but you can’t just evict someone because of noise. You need to wait until there is a concrete lease violation that is presentable to a Judge.
You are very wise. Interestingly, I may have a solution, perhaps a sfh instead of a duplex. I have one about to be finished that might be perfect, I'm still evaluating him day to day, certainly to make sure he isn't destructive to my property. I might have a street perfect for him where he can be a bit loud, though I won't tell him that. :)
What helpful advice would you have offered on this thread? How many rental properties do you own?
- Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes2y
Wow. So this guy is an idiot and a moron because he has a mental illness? Unbelievable. God forbid a family member of yours develop some type of mental illness or an agent parent gets dementia and has to deal with somebody that lacks as much compassion as you do. That's just wrong. Since he does it once a week for an hour I'm sure if the other tenants would get the information that he has an illness and if they could just tolerate it for 1 hour once a week they might. Not everybody is cold-hearted and cruel.. now I see it's half hour once a week. What time is he making noise? During the day? 3am? We had a neighbor that had psychotic episodes about once a month for maybe an hour. He would yell at imaginary people. Our bully property manager was able to get him out. Illegally, but the poor guy didn't know his rights. Thing is, the neighbor that did the most complaining would watch a basketball game once a week with surround sound and play it full blast have a house full of drinking loud family members and then shoot off illegal fireworks after the game if his team won. It lasted several hours, almost caught my house on fire when a bottle rocket landed on the roof and was much more of a nuisance in my opinion then faint yelling in the distance of a guy with psychosis. By posting this back and forth conversation you are discriminating against this person that has an illness. And to the person calling him an idiot, a moron and Section 8 tenants Misfits, you are too. Like I said previously, God forbid you get dementia or someone in your family gets it. You people are cruel.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
A lot of people mentioned eviction. Issue with that is, despite what your lease says, despite what the local landlord-tenant law says, it's very difficult to evict people for these kinds of things. The housing court judges will usually keep extending things out so much to the point where it's time and cost prohibitive to even try. I'd prolly just try to ride out the lease then non renew them. If they don't leave on their own, evicting them at that point is much easier.
- Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes2yThank goodness this situation was resolved years ago. Guy got into physical altercations with neighbors too after this post was made years ago. He no longer lives in one of my units for clear lease violations. Shoot me an address of one of your properties with a good contact number and I’ll surely pass the info along to him, I think I still have his number in my phone.
Quote from @Audrey Lampers:
Wow. So this guy is an idiot and a moron because he has a mental illness? Unbelievable. God forbid a family member of yours develop some type of mental illness or an agent parent gets dementia and has to deal with somebody that lacks as much compassion as you do. That's just wrong. Since he does it once a week for an hour I'm sure if the other tenants would get the information that he has an illness and if they could just tolerate it for 1 hour once a week they might. Not everybody is cold-hearted and cruel.. now I see it's half hour once a week. What time is he making noise? During the day? 3am? We had a neighbor that had psychotic episodes about once a month for maybe an hour. He would yell at imaginary people. Our bully property manager was able to get him out. Illegally, but the poor guy didn't know his rights. Thing is, the neighbor that did the most complaining would watch a basketball game once a week with surround sound and play it full blast have a house full of drinking loud family members and then shoot off illegal fireworks after the game if his team won. It lasted several hours, almost caught my house on fire when a bottle rocket landed on the roof and was much more of a nuisance in my opinion then faint yelling in the distance of a guy with psychosis. By posting this back and forth conversation you are discriminating against this person that has an illness. And to the person calling him an idiot, a moron and Section 8 tenants Misfits, you are too. Like I said previously, God forbid you get dementia or someone in your family gets it. You people are cruel.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Audrey Lampers:
Wow. So this guy is an idiot and a moron because he has a mental illness? Unbelievable. God forbid a family member of yours develop some type of mental illness or an agent parent gets dementia and has to deal with somebody that lacks as much compassion as you do. That's just wrong. Since he does it once a week for an hour I'm sure if the other tenants would get the information that he has an illness and if they could just tolerate it for 1 hour once a week they might. Not everybody is cold-hearted and cruel.. now I see it's half hour once a week. What time is he making noise? During the day? 3am? We had a neighbor that had psychotic episodes about once a month for maybe an hour. He would yell at imaginary people. Our bully property manager was able to get him out. Illegally, but the poor guy didn't know his rights. Thing is, the neighbor that did the most complaining would watch a basketball game once a week with surround sound and play it full blast have a house full of drinking loud family members and then shoot off illegal fireworks after the game if his team won. It lasted several hours, almost caught my house on fire when a bottle rocket landed on the roof and was much more of a nuisance in my opinion then faint yelling in the distance of a guy with psychosis. By posting this back and forth conversation you are discriminating against this person that has an illness. And to the person calling him an idiot, a moron and Section 8 tenants Misfits, you are too. Like I said previously, God forbid you get dementia or someone in your family gets it. You people are cruel.
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