They didn't pay for housing when they owned it, so I wouldn't expect them to pay for housing when they rent. But then I like to get paid for my rentals ...
I am not exactly clear about what specific forms you need help with. When you say "PA" are you referring to Pennsylvania forms or Purchase Agreements between landlord and tenants?
I have the form. Local court sent it to me. I just don’t know how to fill it out. I bought this house at a foreclosure, on the court house steps. The previous owner is not leaving. My understanding is the previous owner is looked at as a “tenant by law”. I posted a notice of get out or get evicted on the door and took a picture of the notice.
I don’t understand how to use this instrument for a tenant by law situation. Do I fill in the amounts and Date paid areas of the form? Basically what do I need to fill out to file it with the court?
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I have the form. Local court sent it to me. ...
By "Local court" I presume you mean the district magistrate, correct? That would be the appropriate form for a case where there is a landlord tenant relationship.
Originally posted by Robert LaBrie:
... I bought this house at a foreclosure, on the court house steps. The previous owner is not leaving. My understanding is the previous owner is looked at as a “tenant by law”. I posted a notice of get out or get evicted on the door and took a picture of the notice.
I don’t understand how to use this instrument for a tenant by law situation. Do I fill in the amounts and Date paid areas of the form? Basically what do I need to fill out to file it with the court?
Yes it is in Pa and Thanks
Your understanding isn't correct. Since this was a foreclosure, and the occupant is the previous owner, there is no landlord-tenant relationship. You have to go up to a higher level of the legal system to perform what is called an "ejectment action" in PA. I suggest you hire an attorney to handle this for you so that you get it done properly. Sometimes it is more beneficial to you to just negotiate a cash for keys arrangement with the occupant to get them to move on. Your profile does not give any indication of location; if you fill in more details you might even get recommendations.
The house is in weatherly pa. What kind of dollers are we talking? She is crazy. I am willing to layout 2k but she has it in her head she still owns the place.
Try Steve Babiak's cash for keys suggestion. But if that doesn't work, you'll need to evict. You WILL need a lawyer.
Unfortunately, in PA it is not an eviction to get out a former owner after foreclosure; it is an ejectment. Same basic idea, to get occupants out, but different levels of legal system get involved (district magistrate for evictions in landlord-tenant, court of common please for ejectment matters and landlord-tenant appeals). If this were a routine eviction for non-paying tenant, then it would be possible for the OP to represent himself. At common pleas, you'd better know what you're doing, and the fact that you're asking here says you don't.
Now, as to the occupant's "still owning" the place - this might actually still be true! Until the sheriff's deed gets recorded with you as the new owner, your ownership is somewhat cloudy, and you cannot even file the ejectment action. There is a time window that has to pass for the parties to the foreclosure to challenge the sheriff sale. You can insure your interest in the property (definitely do so), but you can't attempt to enter the property. Now, if the occupants voluntarily surrender possession to you (help them to volunteer with a cash incentive), then you have a case where they have given you some rights.
As to dollar amounts, I once was able to get somebody to go for $100.00 (they were already planning a move, it helped them go faster) - but it depends on how you negotiate. Whatever you do, get it in writing and get it notarized. Make sure they are out before handing over any money.
My attorney estimates that about 10 hours of time (for starters), depending on if the occupants put up a struggle or not. If you can get billing at rates like $250 to $300 per hour, the starting fee can hit $3K - that's why a cash for keys approach is sometimes the best approach. I do know somebody who had to go as high as $8K once for cash for keys (OUCH). Time to get results is another factor favoring cash for keys.
The county Prothonotary should have the case online from the sheriff sale for search, so as it updates you can track things to see if they are close to recording the deed:
What do you folk thing about converting a previous home owner over to a tenant. I am thinking even a deadbeat tenant is better than a previous owner still occupying a home. Reason being, it should be easier and cheaper to get rid of them as a tenant via an eviction. Thoughts?
They didn't pay for housing when they owned it, so I wouldn't expect them to pay for housing when they rent. But then I like to get paid for my rentals ...
I am thinking exactly that. Give a month to month rental agreement and when they don't pay, evict them. Steve you are dead on about ejectments vs eviction and I am already engaging a lawer to handle that for me. I have another house where the lady is willing to sign a lease but will probably be a deadbeat tenant. If I can get her to assume a tenant roll will the local court here it as a landlord tenant issue?
On A side note, you an investor in pa? How well do the sheriff sales work for you. It seems the minimum bids are too high, or at least that is what non-investors have told me.
I can't say for certain. If the tenant fights the eviction, and it comes up that they were the previous owner and you acquired it at sheriff sale - you might end up with the magistrate saying they don't have jurisdiction on the matter, and end up back with doing an ejectment in common pleas court.
In my county, the vast majority of the bids made by bank attorneys are way over what anybody wants to pay. Maybe like 15% of properties might be priced reasonably - and still out of those many will be too high to get a bid from a buyer. This is something that is probably the same all over the USA ...
I just put a posting on the property like what the REO brokers do, notifying that the locks will be changed unless the "agent" for the owner is contacted before a certain date. At least that has a chance to get some communications started. Once you are talking, you find out how much they need to move on (because cash for keys can be quicker and less expensive than an ejectment where they fight back).
Well in the long run I never had any effective communication with the crazy lady who thought the house was still hers. I ended up talking to the local magistrate, who said he would hear it, as a landlord-tenant complaint. I told him there was no agreement, as well as how I had come to take ownership. I got a default judgment and then an order for possession. Everything you said in this post was dead on, but in this case i felt the judge either did not care about jurisdiction or maybe he did not know.
In an event she refused to leave, which ultimately led to me standing outside her front door with a 300lb constable. He bang on the door and this tiny 65 year old lady told him, is was her house, he was crazy and if he did not leave she was going to call the cops. The constable gave up and called the cops himself. They ended up ripping the door open, putting her in handcuffs and dragged her out of the house. She was yelling for help the whole time. It was terrible to watch.
Later that day I got a call from her son. He was interested in the home and ultimately I sold it back to the family. So in the end the crazy lady did stay.
Furthermore I came to find out she only owed 8k on the house. I paid 17k at auction and sold it to her son for 40k. It did not appraise so I lowered price to 38k. The whole thing took me 6 months and I nerve did anything except change the locks out. Like I said, she was crazy.
... Everything you said in this post was dead on, but in this case i felt the judge either did not care about jurisdiction or maybe he did not know.
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I suspect that he did not know about jurisdiction, and the owner did not either, so nobody was the wiser.
I once sold one back to the former owners that I had bought at sheriff sale - no rehab and still making a good profit makes those a sweet deal. It's crazy to realize that they could have just paid up the debt before sheriff sale and kept the property for a lot less - but these types of people don't grasp reality the way we might expect ...
I have sold the home back to folks who lost their home to me via foreclosure on 2 occasions and rented to them on 4 Why rental?
your gonna be dealing with a long term gain
the previous owners are usually no trouble as far as the house goes. They generally feel the house is still their responsibly..
it may afford you the opportunity to evict rather than eject down the line, if things don't work out.
as the landlord it gets you in the home to take inventory, a person is less likely to trash the home, even if it was theirs after they are your tenant
gives them time to work with loved one to get $$$ and their house back, so you end up selling back to them.
In every case this has worked well. Believe it or not they pay the rent on time because they feel the have a second change. I also use this as way to approach a person just before a sale. Gives me an excuse to meet the person I might dealing, with as well as an opportunity to get into a home.