Property destroyed by burst pipe. property management gone quiet
Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes
Property destroyed by burst pipe. property management gone quiet
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesOriginally posted by @Andrew Evans:
really looking for my legal options or consumer protection options if the insurance is not in place. Where do i go? The house is destroyed internally.
were you go is this.
IN GA a property manager must be licensed by the state as a real estate broker .. so you would lodge a complaint with them , it seems like there is a pretty good possibility that your property has been uninsured . And if there is a deduction on your pm statement to pay insurance and they have not.. then that is a violation . and it could be a trust account violation etc.
you will hope the PM has E and O insurance and they may step in.
lastly if they took money for your rent to pay insurance and did not then that is theft and you can litigate it.. and or file a complaint with other regulators.. but this type of thing probably wont get anyone but the department of real estate interested.
48 Replies
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Irina Belkofer:
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Edward L lauckern:
Terrible situation!
it wasnt vacant for a very long time. i went to the property friday and there was no sign of a problem although i couldnt get inside and then the water company reconnected on friday night and by monday it was destroyed. Neighbours turned off the water for us.
If you have access to the property and in the area, you have to first and foremost mitigate the damages.
Take pictures and start drying property out, put dehumidifiers, fix the problems.
Insurance is a way to pay for the damages and you’ll give them receipts IF you have insurance after all.
I know my insurance company (State Farm) doesn’t let PM get policy on behave of the owner - they all call the agent. I can do the payments but not get them the insurance. Maybe it’s in Ohio only, idk
Anyway, it’s your property and you have to take care of it now and then figure out who is going to pay for the damages, how it happened to prevent such cases in future.
Flooding, bursting pipes, sewer back up could happen any time without anyone’s fault.
The longer you wait to fix it - the more income you lose. Fix it, re rent and then get all the paperwork in the order.
You can call to everyone right now but first calls should be to the clean up team
Thank you for your response.
im in australia and the PM said they were getting straight in there with the drying process but i havent seen any photos or proof that they did this. this was nearly 3 months ago now. Its difficult to organize anything from australia and to understand the process and what is happening.
cheers andrew
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Dan H.:
You do not state if you have a mortgage on the property. On our properties, the holder of the loan verifies that the unit has insurance. I would think this would be a national level practice.
So you may be able to check with the holder of your mortgage to see if they have any insurance information.
If this does not work and the PM is not responsive, @Jay Hinrichs is a great source of info and provided good advice if the unit is really uninsured or you cannot verify that the unit is insured.
Good luck
No mortgage on the property in the USA.
The insurance firm listed on my property statements is Acorn TRI LLC .
they take $1,000 per year per property to pay that insurance. I thought it odd that the insurance was exactly $1,000.
cheers andrew
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Sarah Brown:
Two questions. 1. Why was the water shut off between tenants? When I have a vacant unit I switch the water to my name and then pay the bill from the owner deducting it from the next rent on the next tenant. Obviously we have a few more issues here because of the cold, but there are fees for turning water on and off.
2. Why were you dependent on the property manager for insurance? You don't have standard homeowners insurance? I am not sure how Florida law works, but I require ALL homeowners to carry insurance on their properties. This isn't a state law for Idaho, just me covering every ones buns.
Sounds like it might be a good time to get an attorney. Good luck!
i have no idea why the water was turned off in between tenants and i had no idea that it was turned off until this happened with the turning on. The property is in Georgia not Florida. Thank you for your response.
cheers andrew
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Irina Belkofer:
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Edward L lauckern:
Terrible situation!
it wasnt vacant for a very long time. i went to the property friday and there was no sign of a problem although i couldnt get inside and then the water company reconnected on friday night and by monday it was destroyed. Neighbours turned off the water for us.
If you have access to the property and in the area, you have to first and foremost mitigate the damages.
Take pictures and start drying property out, put dehumidifiers, fix the problems.
Insurance is a way to pay for the damages and you’ll give them receipts IF you have insurance after all.
I know my insurance company (State Farm) doesn’t let PM get policy on behave of the owner - they all call the agent. I can do the payments but not get them the insurance. Maybe it’s in Ohio only, idk
Anyway, it’s your property and you have to take care of it now and then figure out who is going to pay for the damages, how it happened to prevent such cases in future.
Flooding, bursting pipes, sewer back up could happen any time without anyone’s fault.
The longer you wait to fix it - the more income you lose. Fix it, re rent and then get all the paperwork in the order.
You can call to everyone right now but first calls should be to the clean up team
Thank you for your response.
im in australia and the PM said they were getting straight in there with the drying process but i havent seen any photos or proof that they did this. this was nearly 3 months ago now. Its difficult to organize anything from australia and to understand the process and what is happening.
cheers andrew
Three months is a long time. As you have the name of the insurance company, try contacting them. Cc the PM on the email.
- 6yBrenden MitchumBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
Hey @Andrew Evans. I am in the Atlanta area and have some free time on my hands. Feel free to reach out to me if you could use some boots on the ground. I don't have a ton of contacts here but I'd be happy to go check out the property/speak with your PM in person if you'd like. Just lemme know what I can do!
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Brenden Mitchum:
Hey @Andrew Evans. I am in the Atlanta area and have some free time on my hands. Feel free to reach out to me if you could use some boots on the ground. I don't have a ton of contacts here but I'd be happy to go check out the property/speak with your PM in person if you'd like. Just lemme know what I can do!
That would be amazing Brenden. Where can we start? through private message?
cheers andrew
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
I'm in College Park. If you want me to drive by, let me know the address in a private message
- 6yBrenden MitchumBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
@Andrew Evans yeah just shoot me a pm whenever you get a moment and we can talk, see what I can do for ya!
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
As an update: I just went by the property and it's not all that bad. Yes, it looks bad on first glance, but could be rent ready in a week or less.
Something has been done. All the sheetrock on the 1st floor ceiling has come down. It's been cleared up. The carpets have been pulled up on all sides and they have had someone use one of those machines to get the water out You can see all of the marks on all the carpets.
4"-6" of sheetrock have been cut out along the bottom on the 1st floor, to keep mold from forming. Fans are set up and are blowing. The kitchen cabinets are open and all of the drawers have been pulled out for drying.
Everything's dry and ready to get sheetrock hung again. Maybe they're waiting for a crew to be available? Sheetrock on ceilings is usually not a handyman job. After that painting the new sheetrock. attach the carpets again and minor stuff. House is really not in bad shape. Not liveable right now, but it's not destroyed.
I will stop by the PM office tomorrow and see, if someone's there and ask them about their plans.
- Lender · Playa del Carmen, México · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Hi @Andrew Evans, I'm reaching out to you on WhatsApp as well. I don't have great news.
Acorn TRI LLC appears to be related to Michael Collins, who I believe is one of the principals of your property management company. Acorn does not appear to be a licensed insurance broker, and sadly was administratively dissolved in August 2019 [see the Georgia Secretary of State profile here].
There appears to be some serious funkiness going on here...
- Property Manager · seattle · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 42 votes6y
Originally posted by @Mitch Messer:
Hi @Andrew Evans, I'm reaching out to you on WhatsApp as well. I don't have great news.
Acorn TRI LLC appears to be related to Michael Collins, who I believe is one of the principals of your property management company. Acorn does not appear to be a licensed insurance broker, and sadly was administratively dissolved in August 2019 [see the Georgia Secretary of State profile here].
There appears to be some serious funkiness going on here...
OUCH. looks like there will likely be a case of criminality here.
- Contractor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 9 votes6y
@Andrew Evans Hey, I'm sorry to hear that. I can be of help as I own a construction company and am familiar with insurance matters as I currently handle emergency services for insurance clients. I'm also connected with adjusters who can properly represent you in this matter to put your property back together if you're in need of assistance.
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Rc Morris:
@Andrew Evans Would you care to name the PM company?privately i would.
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Patrick D Green:
@Andrew Evans Hey, I'm sorry to hear that. I can be of help as I own a construction company and am familiar with insurance matters as I currently handle emergency services for insurance clients. I'm also connected with adjusters who can properly represent you in this matter to put your property back together if you're in need of assistance.
Hi patrick thank you for your reply. I notice you are in Pennsylvania. I imagine that creates a problem for you working in Georgia. Do you believe i should have an adjuster working for me? feel free to PM me.
cheers andrew
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
A shout out to all the amazing people here offering to help. I want to thank you for the support. I apologize for not responding to everyone. Its obviously a busy and stressful time.
An update. One of the kind people on here visited the home and put my mind at ease regarding the level of damage and the progress in the property so far. They also recommended contacting the BBB better business bureau in georgia and lodging a complaint. This will hopefully give them a kick and an opportunity to resolve it without making them look bad.
I would be keen for recommendations of a better Property management company and or a broker to sell the property for me once remediated.
I am wondering what people think of the prospects for real estate value increase is over the next few years? Crystal ball anyone?
cheers and merry christmas
andrew
- Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes6y
@Andrew Evans we're at the longest point in history without a downturn, I would say the odds of going down are higher than the odds of going up. My balls needs to be cleaned though, it seems to have a haze on it so it might not be as accurate as I would hope. I believe the optimal time to sell was this past summer but it is still a great time to get out and stash the cash away for the next downturn whether it be 3 months or 2 years.
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
@Andrew Evans we're at the longest point in history without a downturn, I would say the odds of going down are higher than the odds of going up. My balls needs to be cleaned though, it seems to have a haze on it so it might not be as accurate as I would hope. I believe the optimal time to sell was this past summer but it is still a great time to get out and stash the cash away for the next downturn whether it be 3 months or 2 years.
Australia hasnt had a property downturn of any significant in 30 years. With interest rates heading lower etc it seems unlikely and the politicians have no stomach for it either. House building blocks that were $20,000 30 yrs ago are now $350,000
i am wondering whether your politicians will create this golden period in the USA as well. Like him or hate him Trump is good for business.
- Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes6y
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
@Andrew Evans we're at the longest point in history without a downturn, I would say the odds of going down are higher than the odds of going up. My balls needs to be cleaned though, it seems to have a haze on it so it might not be as accurate as I would hope. I believe the optimal time to sell was this past summer but it is still a great time to get out and stash the cash away for the next downturn whether it be 3 months or 2 years.
Australia hasnt had a property downturn of any significant in 30 years. With interest rates heading lower etc it seems unlikely and the politicians have no stomach for it either. House building blocks that were $20,000 30 yrs ago are now $350,000
i am wondering whether your politicians will create this golden period in the USA as well. Like him or hate him Trump is good for business.
They have been trying to create a golden period for a long time, it works for a while and then reality hits and it fails. They have been doing more and more each time to make the economy better, but in the end it is all just bought with debt that future generations will somehow have to pay for or suffer the consequences. Just like all other countries that have great social programs that rack up massive amounts of debt, they can't go on forever and when the song comes to and end, things come to a crashing halt. The last few times the government has just found ways to make loans almost free and they have handed out trillions of dollars in cash, driving inflation up and making everyone suffer without even knowing it is happening (somehow the government says inflation is minimal, but they also count the price of things like flat screen TVs into the equation and not food that the government doesn't control the price of with the farm bills). So it could go on longer, but it can't go on forever because eventually you take out so many loans that the interest payments alone is more than you're bringing in a month. I have plenty of friends that insist they're doing great financially, huge house, cars, race cars, trucks, trailers, vacations, etc. One of them is making $150k a year, but adds $20k a year in credit card debt to keep this up. Either overtime at work will dry up and they won't be able to make payments anymore and it all goes away as they struggle to keep everything insisting they still have a great life they earned, interest rates go up and the same thing happens or even a minor accident happens and they're out of work for a month. No savings, no backup plan, just month to month living on the edge. This is the US government. When you see the numbers broken down to normal household level numbers for comparison, it is even scarier.
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
My management company continues to pass the buck. They claim that the insurance company has rejected the claim and they dont cover water damage.
I asked for copies of the claim they lodged and he has claimed they dont lodge it in writing... The email reply is below. Does this sound plausible to anyone here with experience in this field?
cheers andrew
"We do make a claim – just not lodge it in a “ signed form format” which was your question.
Southern States Insurance Brokers is the broker.
Great Lakes – through Lloyds of London is the actual insurer. We have a combined owner commercial package with them.
Dan Merkel is our direct Broker with Southern States. His details are as follows and I have cc’d him on this email.
Dan Merkel, CIC
Dan Merkel
Southern States Insurance
Councilman City of Alpharetta"
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
@Andrew Evans Often you can call in and make a claim, but the refusal should be in writing. I don't see why they would deny a claim for a burst pipe. I'd call the contact person he gave you (after a quick google check to confirm the contact details are real).
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
@Andrew Evans Often you can call in and make a claim, but the refusal should be in writing. I don't see why they would deny a claim for a burst pipe. I'd call the contact person he gave you (after a quick google check to confirm the contact details are real).
Thank you for your reply Theresa.
The rental agent has made an offer to repair the property but has suggested to sell the properties and for them to make $6,000 per property plus the selling agent 3% commission. So effectively im paying for the repairs anyway which he estimates at $8,000 but they also understated the sale price on one property by $10,000 according to zillow estimate. i am focusing on this insurance policy they have that covers all his clients for no reason apparently. If its a scam and i think it is then the OIC might like to hear about it or it will expose the scam and he may pay me "go away" money. Im thinking i must be able to contact the owners in the areas they were selling and let them know they are not covered at all. I may even suggest a self insuring scheme which i think he has likely done anyway and see if it scares him into a better deal. cheers andrew
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
@Andrew Evans Often you can call in and make a claim, but the refusal should be in writing. I don't see why they would deny a claim for a burst pipe. I'd call the contact person he gave you (after a quick google check to confirm the contact details are real).
Thank you for your reply Theresa.
The rental agent has made an offer to repair the property but has suggested to sell the properties and for them to make $6,000 per property plus the selling agent 3% commission. So effectively im paying for the repairs anyway which he estimates at $8,000 but they also understated the sale price on one property by $10,000 according to zillow estimate. i am focusing on this insurance policy they have that covers all his clients for no reason apparently. If its a scam and i think it is then the OIC might like to hear about it or it will expose the scam and he may pay me "go away" money. Im thinking i must be able to contact the owners in the areas they were selling and let them know they are not covered at all. I may even suggest a self insuring scheme which i think he has likely done anyway and see if it scares him into a better deal. cheers andrew
they sound lovely-not. I wonder why they'd say if you told them you might sell it, but were contacting another agent to get an estimate on sales price.
- Bittern, victoria · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 25 votes6y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Andrew Evans:
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
@Andrew Evans Often you can call in and make a claim, but the refusal should be in writing. I don't see why they would deny a claim for a burst pipe. I'd call the contact person he gave you (after a quick google check to confirm the contact details are real).
Thank you for your reply Theresa.
The rental agent has made an offer to repair the property but has suggested to sell the properties and for them to make $6,000 per property plus the selling agent 3% commission. So effectively im paying for the repairs anyway which he estimates at $8,000 but they also understated the sale price on one property by $10,000 according to zillow estimate. i am focusing on this insurance policy they have that covers all his clients for no reason apparently. If its a scam and i think it is then the OIC might like to hear about it or it will expose the scam and he may pay me "go away" money. Im thinking i must be able to contact the owners in the areas they were selling and let them know they are not covered at all. I may even suggest a self insuring scheme which i think he has likely done anyway and see if it scares him into a better deal. cheers andrew
they sound lovely-not. I wonder why they'd say if you told them you might sell it, but were contacting another agent to get an estimate on sales price.
I already mentioned the zillow estimate to them.
i will not say too much until they commit on repairs to the water damaged house.
cheers andrew
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.