To Live Off Rental Income, Some Advice Needed

To Live Off Rental Income, Some Advice Needed

Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes

About two years ago, I sold a business that I created to a large corporation. With those funds - I purchased (in full with cash), numerous investment properties.

I focus on nice-sized condos or townhouses in high demand areas with good equity growth.

I currently own 9 rental properties. I own all of my properties free and clear. I also own my home free and clear.

At the moment, minus HOA fees and the percentage taken by my property manager, I bring home 9,000-9,700 per month.

Some of the people I've come across who invest, they have like 12-15 properties but make around the same amount of money as me (some even less) - because they have mortgages on all of them. And when the units are vacant, it really hurts their pockets due to the mortgages, where I only pay my HOA fee.

Obviously there are property taxes, income taxes and various other expenses that come up.

And my revenue depends on all properties being rented at the same time. Currently they are. With Vegas being a hot market and owning nice units in nice areas, they don't last too long once vacant. And rent prices, and property prices, are rising at a rapid rate year to year (probably a big boost once Raiders start playing here).

The company that bought my business have me under contract to continue running it until mid-2022.

When my contract ends, they might re-sign me or they might let me go.

If they let me go, who knows how long it might take me to find another job, certainly one even close to the level of pay that I'm making now.

I viewed those properties as a security blanket in the event of being let go at the end of my contract, so I took what I bought, and property upgrades, very seriously.

I wondering if I banked enough properties to live on? I do have a wife and 2 small kids. My biggest cost would likely be medical insurance, food being the second, quarterly tax payments, normal bills for the home.

Is anyone here living off their rental properties? How is my situation looking if I find myself without a job by mid-2022.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
6y

$10,000 is a pretty good income in most markets. The national average family income is $60,000. Keep in mind, the vast majority of families are paying rent or a mortgage. If you are debt free and making $10,000 a month, that means you're making double what the average family makes in this country.

Personally, I think you should take some of the equity from your existing homes and leverage that to buy a few more investments. Let's say each investment was worth $100,000 and you had ten of them. You could pull 30% equity out of each one, which comes to $300,000. Split that into six payments of $50,000 and buy six more rentals. Yes, you will have a mortgage on 16 properties but the income will cover all your expenses and still produce some cash flow. It may be slightly less than what you make now but it will grow over time as rents go up.

This is a very basic example. Personally, I would cash out 50% of the equity in my existing homes and look at buying a larger, cash-flowing apartment complex in the midwest. It will maximize the income and diversify your portfolio away from Vegas where appreciation can drop like a lead balloon in a New York minute. I bought a brand new house in Vegas in 2000 for $127,000. Sold it in 2005 for $265,000. In 2011, it sold for $85,000. It's currently worth $255,000 which means it hasn't caught up to the price from 15 years ago. 

And if Vegas ever runs out of water...

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  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    6y

    Health insurance alone will take a large chunk out of your income. $100k/year +/- can be a lot to one person, but just barely scraping by for another depending on lifestyle and general cost of living since certain areas are more expensive than others. You have at least two years left at your job...are you in a position to buy another couple rentals in that time period? Doesn't necessarily have to be in all cash, but just make sure they cash flow after ALL expenses.

  • Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Szepessy:

    Health insurance alone will take a large chunk out of your income. $100k/year +/- can be a lot to one person, but just barely scraping by for another depending on lifestyle and general cost of living since certain areas are more expensive than others. You have at least two years left at your job...are you in a position to buy another couple rentals in that time period? Doesn't necessarily have to be in all cash, but just make sure they cash flow after ALL expenses.

     My job pays me well. I can probably buy another one or two in that time frame. The only problem I have with mortgages, is unless I drop a seriously large down, there is very little profit (1-300 a month if you're lucky) since Vegas rental prices are rather low compared to most states. The cost of living in Vegas is cheap in general.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Is yours a single income household? If not and your spouse can cover the insurance through their employer you should be fine. You could also move to a lower cost area and scale back on the lifestyle. Since you have a property manager that wouldn't affect your rental business. Seems like you should be fine, especially if you plan on looking for another job after this one, and even if it takes you awhile to find it. Heck, you might even consider taking a job primarily for the benefits (not the pay).

  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Personally I would 1031 those properties into 1 large or a couple mid-sized multi-family properties. Leveraging where I could.

    Take advantage of this high market and put your money into an asset(s) that is valued as a business and not subjected to the sways if the market.

    It will also make your life more manageable with a w-2, free up a lot of $ and reduce your tax exposure as you raise those kids.

    Locking up all of that cash makes that $9-10k not as appealing for me.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    @Mark S.  Does your wife work and have medical coverage?  Sit down and write out your monthly expenses and list extras like insurance that you'd have to pay were you not employed.  Then open a bank account where you can pay your bills and use only the money in that bank account to live off of.  Every month transfer the amount that you calculated for living expenses (all of it) into the new account and see how that goes.  You have 2 years before your current contract is up which gives you plenty of time to see if you can live off that amount.  I don't know how much medical insurance would be or what your lifestyle is. I know for me (I'm in Canada, so our medical is different), that amount would be more than enough for most people. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y

    Thoughts:

    1. You can buy reasonably priced insurance from the exchange. If you have a lot of major health issues/costs, then you might want to consider if you want to give up paid employment.

    2. Assuming a reasonable insurance payment for a family of 4 (say less than $1k, which is what passes as reasonable in the US), are you comfortable living on $10k annual?

    3. What kind of cash reserves do you have? If you only have $10k in cash, you might feel differently about trying this than if you have $100k or half a million or similar. 

    4. You can hedge your bets by taking out mortgages on a few of the properties. That gives you controlled, minor leverage and frees up a lot of cash, while you still have a job. This is likely what I would do. I own properties free & clear but I have a few leveraged too. Best of both worlds.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    $10,000 is a pretty good income in most markets. The national average family income is $60,000. Keep in mind, the vast majority of families are paying rent or a mortgage. If you are debt free and making $10,000 a month, that means you're making double what the average family makes in this country.

    Personally, I think you should take some of the equity from your existing homes and leverage that to buy a few more investments. Let's say each investment was worth $100,000 and you had ten of them. You could pull 30% equity out of each one, which comes to $300,000. Split that into six payments of $50,000 and buy six more rentals. Yes, you will have a mortgage on 16 properties but the income will cover all your expenses and still produce some cash flow. It may be slightly less than what you make now but it will grow over time as rents go up.

    This is a very basic example. Personally, I would cash out 50% of the equity in my existing homes and look at buying a larger, cash-flowing apartment complex in the midwest. It will maximize the income and diversify your portfolio away from Vegas where appreciation can drop like a lead balloon in a New York minute. I bought a brand new house in Vegas in 2000 for $127,000. Sold it in 2005 for $265,000. In 2011, it sold for $85,000. It's currently worth $255,000 which means it hasn't caught up to the price from 15 years ago. 

    And if Vegas ever runs out of water...

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Elk Grove Village, IL · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Mark S. A few years ago I spoke with an investor who was in similar situation. In his case 26 doors was the magic number.

    Look at your expenses now and your expenses when you leave the W2 job and see if you will have enough to maintain your life style as well as allow for life style improvement (we tend to spend more when we make more)

    Congrats on your rentals, it's awesome you reinvested into passive income.

    I would save 10% of the income for capital expenses and reinvest the rest. Get enough for a down payment and leverage your next one with a mortgage.

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Mark S. Congrats on your lifestyle!! Get yourself a decent accountant, not just for tax time. Do what you need to qualify yourself as 'RE Professional'. Form an LLC for some new properties with more doors in mid-west, not Vegas. Your HC (and more) can be paid by the LLC. Talk to your accountant. All the best.

  • Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    @Mark S. I think most of the comments before me seem like good advise on the real estate side. The only thing I can offer is that it seems you need to figure out your budget. 

    All the things that are necessities (medical, food. etc.) can be found out way before 2022, and you will know exactly how much you will need to live if you were to lose your job. Once you know that you can invest accordingly.

    Good luck!

  • Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes
    6y

    Numerous members mentioned some of my ideas, and there has been some great advice given in these replies.

    At the moment my wife is not working because she's taking care of the kids and their day to day duties. Both are just starting out in school. She can work part-time at best.

    I should mention that she also has two rentals of her own, that she owns free and clear. They are located out of state and her taxes are much higher than mine on an individual property basis, but she doesn't make much from two in comparison to me, around 1,800 per month I think. But with most properties, things happen, and this month she had to replace a toilet and a water heater that took almost all her profit.

    A lot of people in the city use the local insurance carrier that is much cheaper than the big boys. I remember when I lived in NYC for most of my life my family used a local carrier for health coverage. Another friend pays pretty cheap insurance for a family plan and said he went through Obama Care to get the rate.

    As someone had stated, I've pondered the idea of getting a job just for the benefits and not really focusing on the pay. I know a retired athlete who has seven figures in the bank, but works full-time at Target just for the benefits.

    At the moment, when doing my budget based on my rental income and using 1,500 as a conservative number for insurance, I would have around 4,000-4,500 left over per month. 

  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Mark S.

    Have you created a budget as to how much your health insurance, food costs would be?

    Your quarterly tax payments will likely go down after you leave your job. 
    You mention making good money so that likely means you are at a high tax rate as a result of your job.

    $10,000 a month in cash-flow is great in cash-flow. The good thing also is that this doesn't mean it is your taxable income.
    You are entltied to depreciation so I am suspecting your tax on this won't be too high.
    It would have been lower if you got the properties leveraged as you would be entitled to mortgage interest expense.

    I think once you have a budget, you will be able to see if the amount of houses you have right now is enough.

  • Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Basit Siddiqi:

    @Mark S.

    Have you created a budget as to how much your health insurance, food costs would be?

    Your quarterly tax payments will likely go down after you leave your job. 
    You mention making good money so that likely means you are at a high tax rate as a result of your job.

    $10,000 a month in cash-flow is great in cash-flow. The good thing also is that this doesn't mean it is your taxable income.
    You are entltied to depreciation so I am suspecting your tax on this won't be too high.
    It would have been lower if you got the properties leveraged as you would be entitled to mortgage interest expense.

    I think once you have a budget, you will be able to see if the amount of houses you have right now is enough.

    Yes, budget has been done. Currently I would have around 4,000-4,500 left over after bills (should insurance cost no more than 1,500 per month)

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