Should Landlords ever provide Internet?
New York City, NY · Member since 2012 · 77 posts · 11 votes
I have one tenant who's been here a long time, before I started not officially including internet. Now I say "I sometimes share mine with people as a courtesy, but it's not included-- if the person makes my internet go out, I stop sharing."
Should a landlord ever offer internet?
In roommate situations?
In apartment settings?
[b]Is it too much of a hassle and liability risk to even consider it?[b]
I'm in a roommate situation, and having each person buy their own seems not necessary. But, I don't enjoy whiney tenants complaining about slow internet because they're downloading/streaming too much Netflix or junk.
Do you offer internet? Why or why not?
Large apartment complexes with full-time staff, maybe.
Otherwise, I would say.... never.
Not worth it.
Issues:
- tenants not knowing how to connect their device and calling you for help
- tenants still not understanding how to connect, asking you to come do it
- tenants trying to connect some ridiculously old device that's not compatible
- tenant hogging bandwidth with streaming video or Skype or whatever
- tenant doing illegal non-sense
- tenants calling all the time whining that their internet is slow
- tenant whining that their signal isn't strong enough... on antique devices.
- tenant calling at some obscene hour saying their internet is down
With roommates, I've done/do it. I wouldn't do it again. I've had tenant roommates who hog bandwidth, then wonder why it's down or slow. I've had others who can't figure out how to connect to a wi-fi network. I've had others who try to download s***t. (I had to install a security app to block download sites. Still, tenants could try to bypass this security). I've had tenants stream Netflix and Pandora on a few devices full-stream HD at once, then whine that their internet goes down or is slow. Really, people? One even whined that if the internet kept acting up (largely because of them), they would probably have to move. Ok, good riddance. I offer dirt cheap rent in a great property.
Never again will I offer to share my internet after my current tenant / roommates move out. NEVER. They want internet, they can buy their own and deal with their internet issues on their own. It's not that we have internet issues very often, but a few times a month is more of a hassle than I want when I'm not making money on it.
If you share it, get a Wi-Fi router with Tomato or WW-DRT (whatever it's called) and limit bandwidth on each device so there's not one device hogging the network. Block torrents. Have good security. Expect tenants to whine.
Hey Mattie Covatch,
I don't supply internet, and tend to think it's not a great idea. The liability of having internet in your name would be pretty great, and trying to set it up the way that hotels do would probably be to cumbersome.
That said,I do know a landlord in my area who offers TV and Internet as a incentive to get his places rented - and it sure seems to work.
Anyone else have thoughts?
I agree in a roommate situation it makes sense to share internet.
I don't see why anyone would provide it in a single family home.
In an apartment complex if you could negotiate a good deal for the whole complex it might make sense in all bills paid type of places.
I have strong feelings about roommates and tenants in multifamilies cooperating to reduce expenses. My position is that the landlord should organize this and share in on the "savings." After all, the landlord is the common denominator receiving payments each month.
Yes, provide internet! Upgrade if necessary to get adequate bandwidth. Charge tenants pro-rata (by rent increase), but tell them it's a complimentary feature and eliminate your liability (just like Starbucks does).
Hope that helps.
Large apartment complexes with full-time staff, maybe.
Otherwise, I would say.... never.
Not worth it.
Issues:
- tenants not knowing how to connect their device and calling you for help
- tenants still not understanding how to connect, asking you to come do it
- tenants trying to connect some ridiculously old device that's not compatible
- tenant hogging bandwidth with streaming video or Skype or whatever
- tenant doing illegal non-sense
- tenants calling all the time whining that their internet is slow
- tenant whining that their signal isn't strong enough... on antique devices.
- tenant calling at some obscene hour saying their internet is down
With roommates, I've done/do it. I wouldn't do it again. I've had tenant roommates who hog bandwidth, then wonder why it's down or slow. I've had others who can't figure out how to connect to a wi-fi network. I've had others who try to download s***t. (I had to install a security app to block download sites. Still, tenants could try to bypass this security). I've had tenants stream Netflix and Pandora on a few devices full-stream HD at once, then whine that their internet goes down or is slow. Really, people? One even whined that if the internet kept acting up (largely because of them), they would probably have to move. Ok, good riddance. I offer dirt cheap rent in a great property.
Never again will I offer to share my internet after my current tenant / roommates move out. NEVER. They want internet, they can buy their own and deal with their internet issues on their own. It's not that we have internet issues very often, but a few times a month is more of a hassle than I want when I'm not making money on it.
If you share it, get a Wi-Fi router with Tomato or WW-DRT (whatever it's called) and limit bandwidth on each device so there's not one device hogging the network. Block torrents. Have good security. Expect tenants to whine.
Completely concur with Jon K. In this day and age, with everything down to the toaster having wifi capability, internet is considered a RIGHT, not a privilege. Just think how many times you get frustrated with hotel wifi or cant get signal with your cell phone, you become the customer service rep for the internet company. People are going to get annoyed and call you to fix it.
There is still dial up service for super cheap like 10-12 bucks a month, it gets the job done if they need email. If you offer internet to your clients, expect to be hassled for any outages or slow downs. If they pay you for it, then they should expect you to keep it up and running like the internet company itself. Its not like they can call the internet service provider (ISP) themselves, its in your name.
On the liability side, expect it to be abused. If you give them the password, expect them to share it with others, its going to happen. Torrents will get you threatened for lawsuits for downloading copyrighted content. It probably wont get you fined or sued, however the ISP will cap your data rates and could terminate your service, its in your name so your responsible.
I would consider the prospective tenant market and base my decision off of that.
In SFH homes catered toward families I wouldn't bother. In multiplexes in upscale, downtown areas that cater to young professionals, I could totally see how "free" internet and tv services could be seen as incentives.
Young professionals are not going to have old outdated electronics and will most definitely know how to connect to the internet and navigate the network.
I've used a Meraki cloud-managed system for almost a year now. Currently have over 12 'clients' but it can handle over 100. It discourages torrent, has individual log ins, etc. All the issues mentioned above, besides tenants not knowing how to log on, have been resolved. I have not had one single problem.
If your tenant profile can't handle it, then I wouldn’t go the wifi route. But if you want to attract and retain wi-fi dependent tenants (and open yourself up to a lot of other financial opportunities) I recommend staying open to the possibilities.
I'm not a landlord, but I am a computer guy. Absolutely do not provide internet. If they like to do illegal things online, which 80%of people steal music and movies, and if they like to do anything worse then that you will be the first person they go after. So don't do it. if it's your roommate no big deal, just a tenant a not so smart move. I know I don't want to be questioned by the FBI at all, but at least if it was for what I did then whatever, if it's for a stranger I don't think so.
Absolutely NOT!!!
I have an up/down house where I live upstairs and rent out the downstairs apartment. To make the rental unit more appealing, I decided to include Century Link high speed internet. Needless to say, I received a letter from a law firm out of Chicago that stated my IP address had illegally downloaded copyrighted materials. My secured internet connection had only two people using the internet: myself and my tenant. My choices were to either pay $1900 and have all charges waived or fight the charges and possibly be liable for up to $250,000. Long story short, my attorney advised that the $1900 payment was the safest approach. Luckily, I talked to my tenant and he agreed to pay the $1900, but this could have been a huge expense. I will never again be including internet under my name.
Keep in mind that each internet provider has their own policies for customers downloading copyrighted material. Century Link passes on the names and charges directly to the subscriber. On the other hand, I have heard that Optimum (formerly Bresnan) will not release any subscriber information to third parties, but will give their customers a 3 strike policy for this exact situation.
I wouldnt, just another call waiting to happen that they "cant login" or the "wifi is slow". Liability as others have discussed is another reason.
Another question would be the legality of "sharing" , most providers want each apt to pay for their own, I would think a business account would be needed, chances of them catching you probably slim, just saying.
Yes, a business account is a must. Liability is a big deterrent - I get it. You simply need to set yourself up just like any coffee shop in America. Provide "complimentary" wifi and have a disclaimer. This is done everyday. No need to fear the issues just be bigger than the issues.
Of course, if there's little benefit to you as an owner, don't waste your time. However if you're trying to upgrade your tenant pool or have other strategic reasons - then providing a hotspot is very doable.
I live in a 2 unit. I live upstairs & have a tenant in the basement apartment... I've always included internet & satellite (for the last 8 yrs), simply because it makes the rental more attractive, it's easy to include, and unnecessary to have them pay for their own if I'm already paying for it.
I once had modem issues (internet down) for @ a week... and every few months, I might get a call or text saying that the internet needs to be reset. If I'm not home, then they just have to wait until I get home to reset it. Other than that, no issues. I've never been given a hard time in those few cases. My tenants have always been understanding and reasonable.
It's never been an issue or cause of stress- but after reading Brandon Reiter's post, maybe I'll reexamine including internet in the future!
Good topic.
What services are available for putting in a business safe wifi in a multifamily?
Any thoughts or recommendations?
What services are available for putting in a business safe wifi in a multifamily?
Any thoughts or recommendations?
I wouldn't do it unless you're a huge complex with a full-time maintenance staff.
You'll end up with tenants downloading crap they shouldn't or streaming too much Netflix and slowing down the service. You'll get some tenants who don't know how to connect their devices. You'll get tons and tons of GBs in data over your network, making you go over the internet data quota limit on some providers very easily. Or they'll whine about a weak signal. Or they'll whine saying the internet service is slow when it's not. And you'll have to replace wi-fi routers fairly often as they wear out with heavy use. Whiney tenants galore.
Even on new devices, you WILL get whiney "I can't connect" calls from tenants. When Apple updated to a recent iOS 6, some users had problems connecting some WPA2 wi-fi networks. Windows 8 also has some problems with WPA-2, TKIP encryped wi-fi networks. There's always some new device that will have problems connecting for one reason or another. Plus, old devices that can't connect. Plus, tenants who don't know how to connect. Plus, tenants who know how to connect too well and take advantage of the bandwidth.
Plus, there could even be a little potential liability.... in what they download, if they send spam or have a virus that sends spam, and perhaps even if you don't provide a secure network. What if your network gets hacked? Even if you have a secure network, your tenant's PCs could be infested with malware, viruses, etc. that cause problems.
What if your tenants go so high over internet service data quota that the service provider terminates your account? Then what... you have a complex full of tenants you promised internet service to, and now you have no provider?
WW-DRT or Tomato and multiple routers is a must. Block all extra open ports. Even then, they'll download crap over HTTPS. Use OpenDNS to try to block some download sites. And, what about privacy? What if one tenant uses a packet sniffer to see what other tenants are doing? What responsibility do you have if tenants, say, shop online and somehow your network is compromised?
You could have a server or hardware firewall that does a better job of blocking torrents and providing security, but then you have to buy and maintain that.
It's just not worth it to provide internet. Nothing good comes of it. Nothing. NOTHING. I provided it to roommates, and it was nothing but a huge, huge hassle. Not worth it. Let them pay the $30-40 a month and buy their own.
If you want to give them anything, make it basic cable TV. No internet, no digital cable, etc. Cable TV rarely goes out since tenants can't screw that up easily-- internet can easily cause problems. Too much hassle, zero return.
I realize it's a "plus" for tenants, but... it's not worth it for smaller landlords. Large complexes, maybe. Everyone else, no way. Avoid it. Give them some other perk-- basic cable TV only, a nice house, competitive rent, shorter term leases, or some other incentive. Never never never give internet. NEVER.
I would NEVER again provide internet. Not to SFH, not to roommates, nobody. It's much more hassle than it's worth... unless you're doing pricey high-end temporary executive rentals and charging out the kazoo to make up for it.
DON'T. DO. IT.
There are ancillary reseller programs out there for landlords. From what I've seen its kind of like an affiliate program where you recommend certain services like WIFI and cable and make a commission on them. Of course, if you're trying to add value by sharing you won't be interested in making money. But for some multi family units this can be pretty lucrative for the landlord.
I'm going to buck the trend here. We provide Internet connectivity in most of our units (fibre) as we require it ourselves for our building monitoring/control software. If a building/apartment does not have Internet, it is because we have yet to install our monitoring/management solution there.
We install a core switch in the building and give each unit its own independent network. We also apply QoS and bandwidth throttling to ensure no one tenant can bogart the bandwidth and to insure traffic to/from our management network(s) is given priority.
We also pull CAT-5E/6 wiring in all our units during our first renovation (living room/family room, sometimes kitchen, & bedrooms and a good location for mounting a WiFi access point).
In our student rentals, this has been a huge success and we are able to command a premium because Internet is provided and the rooms are wired.
And how do you address liability, Roy N.?
Roy N. - nice innovative, customer centric work! When you sell nuts to squirrels you deserve top dollar.
Glenn,
It is just another utility/service provided to our customers. Our liability is no different than when we supply electricity (tenant could grow a couple of pot plants) or lodging (in theory, tenant could offer an escort service).
We do make it clear in our lease that all connections to each unit's network are logged and that we would cooperate with authorities if required to so do.
I'm with Roy N. It's a matter of setting up your network... your service.. correctly.
yes, best to work with a networking tech for proper setup and management of internet for your tenants. note, this does not mean just any "computer tech repair guy," UNLESS you can confirm/qualify that they know how to properly setup a router for tenant/customer/third party usage under your internet account. express your concerns (as listed above of all liabilities) and how you want every tenant (assuming more than 1) tracked for the purposes of illegal usage, etc.
Glenn,
It is just another utility/service provided to our customers. Our liability is no different than when we supply electricity (tenant could grow a couple of pot plants) or lodging (in theory, tenant could offer an escort service).
We do make it clear in our lease that all connections to each unit's network are logged and that we would cooperate with authorities if required to so do.
The electricity company won't ban you from going over "quota."
Some internet providers ban you for going over data quota, and/or for torrents.
Jon,
Glenn's question was about liability, not consumption. The liability of bundling Internet in our rental offerings is no greater than bundling heat & lights - both are utilities, both could theoretically be misused by the Tenant.
Your comment is related to usage volume (consumption) and not the liability of providing the service.
In the instance of electrical and network (ISP) utilities, there could be technical limitations or {poor} business policy applied in either case.
Some electrical utilities may have technical capacity limitations - back in my younger days in Québec, we had rolling brown-outs during supper/dinner time in the winter months because the existing grid could not meet the demand.
Today Many electric utilities have graded service rates to encourage efficiency and bill you at a higher per KW rate once you reach predetermined consumption thresholds.
Likewise, some ISPs will bill you at a higher rate when you go over your package data threshold.
If your ISP is blocking your traffic when you reach a threshold it's an indication they are infrastructure constrained - or "business constrained" - and you should be looking for a different provider.
Hi Roy N. and Al Williamson , what services do you suggest for sharing internet in a multifamily apartment ~30 units? How would I wire each unit and should I offer broadband via CAT5 outlet or wifi as well? What services are best for tracking use and determining if any single unit is violating the cable companies terms of service?