A lesson learned from Lending money to a BP contact

A lesson learned from Lending money to a BP contact

Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Today is a great day!  I finally got my money back from a BP member after over 2 years.  We had met on BP in 2015 as he attended my meetup group and over the years he was very involved with the community here in Chicago and had worked with a few contacts of mine.   So in summer 2017 he contacted me about a private money offer.  He was flipping a property and they ran out of money.  He needed $15k for the final punchlist and sent me over the estimate and pictures.  Cabinets were in, floors were done, it was just small things like carpet in the bedrooms, counters, and fixtures.  I had done a few private money deals before so I used that agreement that I had my lawyer review years before, which did have a personal guarantee but not a note.  So he asked for $20k so he could have a cushion and said they would finish in 30 days and list the house before the winter market, and I would receive $5k when the loan was paid off no later than February with a daily interest charge after that.  

I checked in a month after I sent the money and he said they had some delays with contractors and his partner had to go back to work so he was doing the work in his spare time on nights and weekends.  The weeks went by with very little progress and as we headed into winter he ghosted me.  The note due date was quickly approaching and from what I could tell no progress had been made since I lent the money.  We were now approaching a year since I had lent the money and the project still wasn't completed so I had my lawyer seek legal action.  We had to hire a private investigator to serve them as the sheriff was unsuccessful.  Finally in winter 2018 we had our court date and received the judgement.  The guy I lent money to never showed up in court or communicated with my lawyer, but the partner did and it sounds like he was also a victim in this situation.  So another year goes by with little progress until the partner communicated that the property is done and being listed for sale.  So we had to go back to court and get a lien on the property and after over a month of pushing the closing date I am happy to report that it closed and I got my money back!  I did negotiate to drop the daily interest changes (about $7k) and just get my investment of $20k + the $5k and court / legal fees.  I felt bad for the partner that got scammed and wanted to ensure there was enough money from the sale to pay me off and be done with it.  So after 2.5 years it is finally over.

Next time I would definitely do a background check even if I know them from local meetups and BP and I would definitely get a note signed to secure a lien against the property.  If the partner hadn't been upfront with us I could have missed this and had no recourse to ensure payment, and because my agreement didn't include that the judge had to order it and it was up to him to approve or deny it.  

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Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

@Brian Pulaski - I haven't seen him on here since he ghosted me.  Even though I had seen him at networking events for years I wish I would have been more diligent in screening 

Hi Brie,

Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Cory LucasPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Brighton, IL · Member since 2019 · 431 posts · 139 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt wow, thank you for sharing your story. Glad you were able to get your money back and thanks for the insights on how to potentially keep that from happening in the future.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Phil Denton - There was already a first lien as this was a $300k project and I was only providing $20k for the final punchlist.

    @Steve Vaughan - I am not saying don't lend to people on BP.  I have done plenty of other transactions with BP members, I am just suggesting further DD 

    I am not naming the person in a public forum because people are crazy and sue for anything.  I am not adding more drama to the situation

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I agree we should know who this person is but is the lesson here really that we shouldn't lend to anyone on BP? The fact that this person was on BP or not on BP is irrelevant to whether he was a trustworthy borrower.

  • Real Estate Agent · Tarpon Springs, FL · Member since 2020 · 8 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt thank you for this cautionary tale, bringing awareness and being vulnerable. I personally appreciate this because I inherited some $ from my mom who passed away and I want to be a private lender. I’m reading everything I can to make sure I thoroughly protect myself. So thank you for sharing. Glad you got $ back!

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:

    I agree we should know who this person is but is the lesson here really that we shouldn't lend to anyone on BP?  The fact that this person was on BP or not on BP is irrelevant to whether he was a trustworthy borrower.
    .  

    I'd agree if the title of the thread  wasn't 'Lesson learned from lending money to a BP contact'.  


  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Victor S.:
    Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:


    Hi Brie,

    Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

    If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

    I am happy to PM you the person, but I don't think publicly bashing someone on an open forum is the way to go.  I don't know if there was a backstory or things going on to explain the situation. I got excuses about a sick mom and a bunch of other things but I am sure you know how that goes

    It's your call, but I agree with Eric on outing this person in the open. I guarantee you, you were not the last person he ripped off. Backstories and other things don't make up for running away with $20k+, ghosting all comms, and not showing up to court. Oh, and sticking your partner with making things right. 

     Publicly naming people is often not the right course of action. People are way too reckless today with how they use social media to shame people. It is completely weaponized and can backfire. Courts are the process to remedy situations like this, so Brie 100% handled this correctly. 

    Even if you knew the name of this person, there are 1000 other dishonest people that you don't know the names of. Court records are pubic. If you do any form of due diligence, the name of this person would easily be found. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Forest Park, IL · Member since 2014 · 255 posts · 141 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:

    @Brie Schmidt If you are planning on doing private lending on at least a semi-regular basis, consider a subscription to TLOxp. They require you to purchase a package of a minimum # of searches per month, but depending on how much you are lending out it might make sense to subscribe even if you only will use just a small part of that quantity over the course of a year.

    The data they have on everyone is insanely detailed - way, way beyond a simple background and credit check like we run on tenants. IE they have photos and maps of where a person's vehicle was parked/recorded, asset breakdowns, address history, connected businesses, info on folks related to that person, etc. And then all of that data can be further broken down into its individual parts/history to be further analyzed.

    The TLOxp minimum monthly fee is around $100 - I wouldn't consider this a casual use service. They also require the subscription be in a business entity registered with the state (LLC/DBA/Etc) and may reject a home office space. Fiverr has taskers willing to relay TLOxp reports for as little as $5. I'm considering the later route for some of my accounts that are in collections status. Does anyone have feedback on that route?

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joseph Konney:
    Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:

    @Brie Schmidt If you are planning on doing private lending on at least a semi-regular basis, consider a subscription to TLOxp. They require you to purchase a package of a minimum # of searches per month, but depending on how much you are lending out it might make sense to subscribe even if you only will use just a small part of that quantity over the course of a year.

    The data they have on everyone is insanely detailed - way, way beyond a simple background and credit check like we run on tenants. IE they have photos and maps of where a person's vehicle was parked/recorded, asset breakdowns, address history, connected businesses, info on folks related to that person, etc. And then all of that data can be further broken down into its individual parts/history to be further analyzed.

    The TLOxp minimum monthly fee is around $100 - I wouldn't consider this a casual use service. They also require the subscription be in a business entity registered with the state (LLC/DBA/Etc) and may reject a home office space. Fiverr has taskers willing to relay TLOxp reports for as little as $5. I'm considering the later route for some of my accounts that are in collections status. Does anyone have feedback on that route?

    Send me one on fiverr you are considering using and I iwll do it on myself and let you know

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