A lesson learned from Lending money to a BP contact

A lesson learned from Lending money to a BP contact

Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Today is a great day!  I finally got my money back from a BP member after over 2 years.  We had met on BP in 2015 as he attended my meetup group and over the years he was very involved with the community here in Chicago and had worked with a few contacts of mine.   So in summer 2017 he contacted me about a private money offer.  He was flipping a property and they ran out of money.  He needed $15k for the final punchlist and sent me over the estimate and pictures.  Cabinets were in, floors were done, it was just small things like carpet in the bedrooms, counters, and fixtures.  I had done a few private money deals before so I used that agreement that I had my lawyer review years before, which did have a personal guarantee but not a note.  So he asked for $20k so he could have a cushion and said they would finish in 30 days and list the house before the winter market, and I would receive $5k when the loan was paid off no later than February with a daily interest charge after that.  

I checked in a month after I sent the money and he said they had some delays with contractors and his partner had to go back to work so he was doing the work in his spare time on nights and weekends.  The weeks went by with very little progress and as we headed into winter he ghosted me.  The note due date was quickly approaching and from what I could tell no progress had been made since I lent the money.  We were now approaching a year since I had lent the money and the project still wasn't completed so I had my lawyer seek legal action.  We had to hire a private investigator to serve them as the sheriff was unsuccessful.  Finally in winter 2018 we had our court date and received the judgement.  The guy I lent money to never showed up in court or communicated with my lawyer, but the partner did and it sounds like he was also a victim in this situation.  So another year goes by with little progress until the partner communicated that the property is done and being listed for sale.  So we had to go back to court and get a lien on the property and after over a month of pushing the closing date I am happy to report that it closed and I got my money back!  I did negotiate to drop the daily interest changes (about $7k) and just get my investment of $20k + the $5k and court / legal fees.  I felt bad for the partner that got scammed and wanted to ensure there was enough money from the sale to pay me off and be done with it.  So after 2.5 years it is finally over.

Next time I would definitely do a background check even if I know them from local meetups and BP and I would definitely get a note signed to secure a lien against the property.  If the partner hadn't been upfront with us I could have missed this and had no recourse to ensure payment, and because my agreement didn't include that the judge had to order it and it was up to him to approve or deny it.  

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Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

@Brian Pulaski - I haven't seen him on here since he ghosted me.  Even though I had seen him at networking events for years I wish I would have been more diligent in screening 

Hi Brie,

Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

See this reply in the discussion

33 Replies

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  • Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Great story shows the importance of tying a loan to a property and ensuring the borrower has enough equity that everyone gets paid if the worst is to happen.

  • Rental Property Investor · Roselle, IL · Member since 2020 · 30 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    Thanks for that post Brie. Glad you had received your funds back.  As a new investor this story makes me want to be sure that I do not burn a bridge,  If I were in a situation where I needed to borrow money, I would insist that the lender is legally taken care of by means of lien.  Great story for anyone new or seasoned to reflect on. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I assume this person is not on BP anymore? I often get messages and colleague requests here from people looking to work together. Stories such as this are why no matter how upstanding the person seems, you just never know. Hopefully he isn’t out there doing this to other people.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Brian Pulaski - I haven't seen him on here since he ghosted me.  Even though I had seen him at networking events for years I wish I would have been more diligent in screening 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

    @Brian Pulaski - I haven't seen him on here since he ghosted me.  Even though I had seen him at networking events for years I wish I would have been more diligent in screening 

    Yeah, hindsight sucks! Luckily it seems you were made somewhat while at the end of the day. 

  • Attorney · Skokie, IL · Member since 2016 · 270 posts · 109 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt - I'm so glad your experience ended with a positive resolution, and yes background checks can be very useful tools when it comes to due diligence in any financial arrangement. This is true even for people within our personal and professional networks - there's no telling how trustworthy they are with money without looking into their backgrounds. While we all would rather be able to trust people, I've seen situations where not-so-savory tenants and real estate flippers are able to explain financial issues in their backgrounds to the landlord or investor's satisfaction - bad partnerships, spouses, roommates, things like that - just to turn around and run off owing large sums of money. Even though it took years and lots of legal battles, I'm so glad you were able to get your money back!

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed - me too.  it could have been a lot worse.  Luckily the partner was cooperative

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt was this an unsecured loan initially? It sounds like it was, but just curious

  • Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt If you are planning on doing private lending on at least a semi-regular basis, consider a subscription to TLOxp. They require you to purchase a package of a minimum # of searches per month, but depending on how much you are lending out it might make sense to subscribe even if you only will use just a small part of that quantity over the course of a year.

    The data they have on everyone is insanely detailed - way, way beyond a simple background and credit check like we run on tenants. IE they have photos and maps of where a person's vehicle was parked/recorded, asset breakdowns, address history, connected businesses, info on folks related to that person, etc. And then all of that data can be further broken down into its individual parts/history to be further analyzed.

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 315 votes
    6y

    not a good idea to screw over a moderator on BP
    I give you credit for not putting him on blast from the day it went south

    and even now keeping his identity hidden

    congrats that it is finally over

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt I’m curious, did you mean to say that you didn’t have the borrower sign a note?  It sounds like the loan was unsecured, so I’m assuming there was no deed of trust or mortgage securing it. But if there wasn’t a promissory note either, what paperwork did the borrower sign for this particular loan?

    Either way, glad to hear you finally got your money back. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    IMO, short-term lending to flippers is way too much work for the absolute dollars in return.  The return percentage may be great but the total return dollars is very low relative to all the work it takes to properly analyze each flipper and each flip.  Assuming a flip takes four months, we'd have to analyze 15 flips (and likely many flippers) over a five year period versus, say, investing in one 5 year syndicated investment...radical difference in work and risk.  And the flip returns would be diluted by idle time between flips.  These short-term loans work best for known friends and family or for hard money lenders who have teams, processes, and scale.

    Congrats on the good outcome.  You have way more experience than the rest of us and it is still challenging.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    Thank you for sharing and helping others avoid the same problem in the future. I'm glad this one worked out for you!

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • MD · Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 71 votes
    6y

    Goodness gracious I am glad that you rectified the situation and got your money back! To think someone would seriously do this is ridiculous and beyond me. What do you gain from betraying someones trust that was kind enough to help you out in a moment of despair??? Clear communication is needed. As long as someone is communicating (Honestly though) with me the issues they run into with a loan I gave them, I would not mind them being late on paying me back. 

    BE AS FAST TO PAY SOMEONE BACK, AS FAST AS YOU WERE TO ASK SOMEONE FOR MONEY!!! 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

    @Brian Pulaski - I haven't seen him on here since he ghosted me.  Even though I had seen him at networking events for years I wish I would have been more diligent in screening 

    Hi Brie,

    Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

    If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

  • Real Estate Broker · IL · Member since 2016 · 284 posts · 178 votes
    6y

    Wow! Thanks for sharing this. I'm glad you got your money back.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth - it was a private money deal

    @Matthew Olszak - good to know.  I never knew that.  Now I kinda want to run a check on myself and see what comes up!

    @kyle J. - They signed a promissory note but something in it didn't give me the right to lien the property without a court order.  I am not smart enough to know what I was missing, which is probably why I shouldn't be doing this again

    @Mike Dymski - Totally agree.  This is the second person I have lent to and I was doing it more so from an place of trust, which obviously was a mistake.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:


    Hi Brie,

    Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

    If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

    I am happy to PM you the person, but I don't think publicly bashing someone on an open forum is the way to go.  I don't know if there was a backstory or things going on to explain the situation. I got excuses about a sick mom and a bunch of other things but I am sure you know how that goes

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:


    Hi Brie,

    Can someone explain why we don't actually name the person involved? THAT would be helpful and honest. Is there some policy against telling the full truth here? I may run across this same person and have no clue he is the person who did this to you. Seems like it would be of service to others to know the name. This story doesn't help me, as much as make me nervous that I may already be talking to this guy about a deal and have no idea.

    If he wants, he can defend himself here and tell his side, but wither way, we can make our decisions with full information.

    I am happy to PM you the person, but I don't think publicly bashing someone on an open forum is the way to go.  I don't know if there was a backstory or things going on to explain the situation. I got excuses about a sick mom and a bunch of other things but I am sure you know how that goes

    It's your call, but I agree with Eric on outing this person in the open. I guarantee you, you were not the last person he ripped off. Backstories and other things don't make up for running away with $20k+, ghosting all comms, and not showing up to court. Oh, and sticking your partner with making things right. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    It doesn’t help anyone if we don’t know who to stay away from ? Who’s the idiot ? Your way nicer than I would have been and also way more gullible than I would have been about lending money . I would only lend with a secured first position on a property but to each their own .

  • New to Real Estate · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2019 · 51 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt Thanks for sharing. It sounds like the lessons learned here are:

    1). Know (really know!) who you're partnering with.

    2). Get a personal guarantee AND first position on a lien on the property. In this case you'd have "first rights" to payment when the property is sold, right? I assume first lien would be impossible if there's a mortgage on the property... Maybe an attorney would help navigate this type of transaction?

  • Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    This sucks. I'm glad you were made whole.

    We want to trust people. BP is about sharing knowledge and support other REIs. When someone takes advantage of another person on here, it brings everyone down. I'm sure OP will avoid future opportunities because of this experience.



    “I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

    ...and you've painted everyone asking for capital with the same brush.

  • Hagerstown, MD · Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt

    Glad to read that you finally got your money back. Next time, ensure you get a lien for the loan so history doesn’t repeat itself.

    The sad thing is that you might never want to be a lender to the honest investors out there.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y

    I knew a loan above a few hundred bucks needs to be collateralized.

    I didn't know we shouldn't lend to anyone on BP.  

    One rancid apple spoils the whole barrel if we don't know who the bad apple is.  

  • Rental Property Investor · WA · Member since 2018 · 36 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Brie Schmidt. So glad you were able to recoup your money. Unfortunately I had a similar situation with some people in Chicago. I’m letting the court handle it.

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