Tenant wants me to waterproof a basement in PA that doesn't flood

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Tenant wants me to waterproof a basement in PA that doesn't flood

Kasay Mardis
Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes

Good Afternoon,

    I have a quick question about the law requirements or type of responsibility we have as a landlord.  A tenant of ours wanted their stairs replaced, because the riser had fallen off.  Even though it didn't affect the integrity of the stairs we agreed, but finding a contractor in the winter was tough.  This made her angry and now she wants us to water proof her basement because a very small amount of water passes to the drain during heavy rains and snow melt (no standing water at all).  Are we obligated to water proof a basement when everyone gets water in their basement to prevent a small amount of inconsistent water?

Thank you,

Kasay

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Account Closed
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

Get rid of her.  A pain in the rear tenant is not worth keeping.  And the fact that she's on M2M says to me that she's not just trying to get out of her lease.  

If your laws are like CA, though, you might not be able to just give her notice, because in CA anyway, if a tenant exerts a right, then you can't kick them out for 6 months after they do so.

But, you know what?  If you just don't want to deal with her anymore, just give her notice to move out.  Tell her, you're just so sorry, but you can't afford to put the building into habitable condition at this time.  

Then, it's up to your tenant to sue you or not.  But, I'd call her bluff and just tell her, gee, I'm so sorry, but I just don't have the money to fix it to the standard you want, so I'm just going to have to give you notice to move out, and then work on getting the unit up to snuff.

Then, watch her change her tune.  But, I'd stick to the termination.  In CA, if she's been there for over 12 months, I'd have to give her 60 days notice.  You might only have to give yours 30 days.  Just check it out.

And remember, that all of the landlord fears are based on a tenant either having money to sue you, or the tenant being successful in convincing a fair housing organization (that's wwwaaaaayyyyy over-worked and under-staffed) that they have a case that will win.  So, if they don't, you probably don't have to worry about it.

Just saying, some tenants can be bullies.  But, they only win if they know more about the law than you do.  So, learn the laws for where you do business.  Way cheaper than hiring a lawyer - that might not have every taken the time to learn the laws about landlord-tenant issues.

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  • Karl B.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Hi. No. You're not required to; though it's not a tough fix. I had the same issue in my first few multi-family properties and bought some Quikrete mortar mix and fixed it myself.

    1Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    Thank you, Karl.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Surprise, AZ · Member since 2018 · 156 posts · 110 votes
    6y

    Hopefully you have them get renters insurance? 

    0Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    Hey Aninze,

       She is still on a month-to-month from when we purchased the house, but the lease does state that the landlord is not responsible for any damages to her property.  There is no damage to any property, she is really just trying to be difficult for some reason even though we've gone above-and-beyond for her in so many ways.  Do you think we should suggest that she gets renters insurance and would that provide and benefit to our company?

    Thanks

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 865 posts · 351 votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis how hard would it be to get it done? Is the tenant paying on time? Replacing tenants would cost more than sealing the basement for a little rain water or snow melting in my opinion.

    0Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

     @Account Closed

    I'm not sure the extent of the repair since we haven't done one yet.  Most basements here get water inside during heavy rain regardless.  Many have sump pumps to drain it, but that doesn't stop the initial entry.  Do they have many underground basements where you are in Texas.  Living there for most of my life I can't say I've seen many since it's near sea level and hurricane season.  Thanks for the opinion though.  It's appreciated.

    1Reply
  • Gregory H.
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    6y

    Is she close to market rent? If she isnt at market rent, wait until April, terminate her tenancy then so you have the spring/summer rental market, do whatever repairs/upgrades you want to do, and lock in a better tenant to a year long lease. If tenants are problematic, you raise their rent until the problems are worth the return, or you get rid of them.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Get rid of her.  A pain in the rear tenant is not worth keeping.  And the fact that she's on M2M says to me that she's not just trying to get out of her lease.  

    If your laws are like CA, though, you might not be able to just give her notice, because in CA anyway, if a tenant exerts a right, then you can't kick them out for 6 months after they do so.

    But, you know what?  If you just don't want to deal with her anymore, just give her notice to move out.  Tell her, you're just so sorry, but you can't afford to put the building into habitable condition at this time.  

    Then, it's up to your tenant to sue you or not.  But, I'd call her bluff and just tell her, gee, I'm so sorry, but I just don't have the money to fix it to the standard you want, so I'm just going to have to give you notice to move out, and then work on getting the unit up to snuff.

    Then, watch her change her tune.  But, I'd stick to the termination.  In CA, if she's been there for over 12 months, I'd have to give her 60 days notice.  You might only have to give yours 30 days.  Just check it out.

    And remember, that all of the landlord fears are based on a tenant either having money to sue you, or the tenant being successful in convincing a fair housing organization (that's wwwaaaaayyyyy over-worked and under-staffed) that they have a case that will win.  So, if they don't, you probably don't have to worry about it.

    Just saying, some tenants can be bullies.  But, they only win if they know more about the law than you do.  So, learn the laws for where you do business.  Way cheaper than hiring a lawyer - that might not have every taken the time to learn the laws about landlord-tenant issues.

    4Reply
  • Aaron Flake
    Real Estate Agent · Mukilteo, WA · Member since 2018 · 124 posts · 148 votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis

    If she's a pain now. She will continue to be. Probably progressively get worse if she senses you always give in anyways. Increase her rent ASAP. Or ask her to leave and just say it's not a good fit. If your area is like mine there is no shortage of renter applicants.

    1Reply
  • Frank Geiger
    Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 777 votes
    6y

    I would tell her you don't see an urgent or necessary repair but to keep an eye out if it worsens. Honestly, I wouldn't be too happy either if the stairs were coming apart. Either way, get a better/market rent tenant around summertime. Inherited tenants are never easy to work with.

    1Reply
  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis

    This sounds like the tread came off the step.  If the riser came off you would most likely need to replace the stair.  Although you can fix anything.  As far as water intrusion into the basement, the building code would require you to stop the water infiltration.  You certainly don’t want the city coming out if she complains.  Take a look and see what it will take to resolve it.

    Good Luck.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis you don’t need a contractor for this. Just get a handyman. A couple gallons of waterproofing roll on stuff might work for your situation. Anyone could find a way to replace a riser. I mean we’re not talking about a tread here. Measure it, have Home Depot rip it to size. Throw a few finish nails in it.

    3Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis I don't consider water in the basement a normal condition. In fact, our real estate disclosure forms require us to disclose that as a known problem when selling a property. We have full basements and some areas have high water table. If there is a sump pit, there is drain tile that should move the water into the sump pit. That is meant to keep the water from entering at the foundation. It sounds like your situation is easy to remedy with vinyl cement patch and waterproofing paint.

    I am not sure courts would consider water in the basement a habitability issue. Unless the basement is finished living space or there is mold (often water causes mold which is the main reason to fix this). If the water damages your tenants property after you were notified to remedy the problem, you could be liable. Even if your lease says "not responsible" that doesn't apply if it is found that your negligence creates the problem.

    I would just fix it. 

    1Reply
  • Andrew S.
    Rental Property Investor · Helena, MT · Member since 2017 · 282 posts · 117 votes
    6y
    Try something like this and report back if it worked! https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/12/21/how-to-make-a-relatively-sweet-shower-cheap/
    1Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis

    Month to month and she’s being difficult, huh? That’s an easy fix. 30 days notice to get out. Let her be difficult for the next guy.

    1Reply
  • Calvin OzanickBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Janesville, WI · Member since 2017 · 708 posts · 297 votes
    6y

    Unless you are written into the least landlord friendly lease of all time, you should not have to make these repairs. You did not cause the damage, nor is it a hazard in any way. Refer to the lease and if the lease is unclear, be sure that you reach out to your real estate attorney. 

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    1Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    Great answers.  I very much appreciate the help.  I'm going to make the repairs with the help of a handyman I know and well as waterproofing the walls.  If the problem gets worse I'll adjust from there. If she becomes worse for no reason then 30-day notice sounds like the only option I have.  Maybe we're being too easy going since we're still fairly new to the game.  Thanks again.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Some crazy responses here IMO. So for starters, the stairs are probably a safety hazard, so that's a no-brainer and what you ought to be prioritizing always everywhere.

    A little water in the basement??? Pluuueze. It's a hole in the ground and that's what they do! However, a lot of water or water that never goes away or water causing mold is different. All said, exactly nothing wrong with just fixing it either. I set up and tell my tenants that basements are expected to flood and they should store items accordingly. I forbid mattresses and recommend they store all clothing in water-proof containers. I basically let them know I will be hosing the thing down once and a while and they should prepare for that. I also provide dehumidifiers and require they be plugged in and set to a comfortable humidity (40-50) at all times. That usually cures a bit of standing water in short order.

    As far as kicking her out or whatever over this - geez - some real tyrants on here. She has a couple of complaints - big deal - both of them are valid too. Fix them or tell her exactly why you're not going to do a damn thing. The tenant is feeling you out. So what? Let her feel you out. You have a month to month and my two cents is to keep it that way. That way either of you can part ways whenever you want - it's a beautiful thing. MTM solves most everything IMO.

    1Reply
  • Ryan Scott Isacksen
    Property Manager · Castro Valley, CA · Member since 2016 · 212 posts · 110 votes
    6y

    Agreed with @Account Closed

    Stairs with a broken part are a liability problem.  It sounds like it is a handyman level repair and shouldn't be hard to get someone out to fix the problem.

    Water causes the most property damage. I would try to address this unless the repair cost is unreasonable.  It sounds like there are a number of solutions offered that are reasonable and use dehumidifiers as Merritt recommended if the water continues.  Wood and building materials will absorb water from humid air as well.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y

    Is the tread resting on the riser making it unsafe to step on Or is the riser decorative? You need to fix the stairs pal. Get a handyman to do it, its probably a 10 minute job after the cuts.  In any event make the stairs safe, fix the water issue then give her the walking papers all in the same day.

    0Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    The stairs were fixed a little over a month ago.  This is really a question regarding the basement water trail (no standing water).  We're going to let her stay for a bit and feel it out, but I like the humidifier ideas.

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    @Matt M.

    I’m going to start calling you “No mercy Matt “

    Lol I agree wholeheartedly on that btw

    1Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Dennis M. I’m being hardened the hard way. I’ve learned that being nice gets me nowhere and makes me lose money. This tenant will on purpose put belongings right in the path of the small amount of water just to raise hell. Get her out. 

    0Reply
  • Todd Shoemaker
    Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Kasay Mardis

    One thing to check is the outside of the building- make sure gutters are clean and water is diverted away from the foundation. Sometimes a simple change to the grade around the foundation can fix the issue or if there is a cement side walk/patio, make sure it’s sealed. Simple fixes so things to look at which will also show the tenants you are attending to address their concerns.

    The internal drain system can be costly on a rental property. I am in the Pittsburgh area and do a lot of work with a local waterproofing company, so I am familiar with systems and basement issues.

    0Reply
  • Kasay Mardis
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Windber, PA · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Todd Shoemaker ,

    I appreciate the suggestion.  I will check those while out at the property.

    0Reply
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