Hi Bigger Pockets,
How do you deal with the excess traffic problem, when you have no actual proof or official statement from law enforcement regarding drug activity (which would allow/require and immediate 3-day eviction here in Ohio)?
I just bought a new group of properties and one tenant appears to be doing a booming biz. Here's what we see: a steady stream of cars roll-up, park (or sometimes just leave it idling), stay in the apartment for 2-4 minutes, and then leave. I'd guess 10-20 per day-night. (maybe more)
you tax them for dealing on your turf
I would try contacting the local law enforcement agency (via the non-emergency number) and discuss your concerns with them. I would think they would be happy to assist in breaking up drug ring.
you tax them for dealing on your turf
I would try contacting the local law enforcement agency (via the non-emergency number) and discuss your concerns with them. I would think they would be happy to assist in breaking up drug ring.
I reached out to an officer I know, he said to have the tenants call the PD when they see activity. I'm going to ask them to do so but, you know... they probably won't. I'm going to go work on a unit over there that is empty so I will though.
you tax them for dealing on your turf
LOL they have a lease or they'd be o.u.t.
1) Call surrounding tenants and ask if they have had any issues with noise complaints or something that would justify a "warning". Good possibility there are other violations occurring that might be easier to catch/prove.
2) Give notice but schedule a preventative maintenance reason to enter the apartment (smoke detector check, air filters, leak check, etc). Keep an eye out for suspicious activity in the unit/smells.
If all else fails, send out a notice to all units reminding everyone of rules of lease regarding visitors/illegal activities and violation can result in lease termination. Hopefully they will get the hint you are on to them, or cause other tenants to speak up if they have noticed anything going on.
@Jill F. I would do nothing and non renew their lease. Unless law enforcement can do something (sounds unlikely from what you’ve described). Doing something on your own may cause more trouble than solving your problem
@Caleb Heimsoth I feared that might be the best course ...they still have 6 months left on their lease (.
I went back and forth about it, but ultimately I did send them what I call my 'invitation to move' email... hopefully they will decide to go... I told them I'll waive the notice requirements, the penalties, and return the deposit on move-out date, and prorate last month's rent if they move AND if they don't, I'll post a formal notice to cure and I'll call the cops everytime I see 'retail activities' and report it and I will encourage the neighbors to report as well
... but sometimes I do worry about retaliation...
@Caleb Heimsoth I feared that might be the best course ...they still have 6 months left on their lease (.
I went back and forth about it, but ultimately I did send them what I call my 'invitation to move' email... hopefully they will decide to go... I told them I'll waive the notice requirements, the penalties, and return the deposit on move-out date, and prorate last month's rent if they move AND if they don't, I'll post a formal notice to cure and I'll call the cops everytime I see 'retail activities' and report it and I will encourage the neighbors to report as well
... but sometimes I do worry about retaliation...
Ive had a similar problem before..I didn’t do anything and never had any issues..granted in my case I didn’t own the property (neighbors property) so I was sort of limited
@Jill F. Hire a few off duty police officers to sit in front of that building (and consistently drive by often) a few hours a day completing paperwork, running license plates, and basically making the swinging by “the pharmacy apartment” a risk.
That last part where you gave them sort of an ultimatum about police makes me nervous. These aren’t normal people and they can interpret that as “snitching.” I know, sounds crazy, but you said you were going to be there in a vacant unit so be careful! I was happy to have property management deal with this when I had the same problem with a unit. They ended up calling the police a few different times.
@Jill F. I know this sounds bad, but maybe hire a private detective who will get proof. And use that evidence. Or, and this sounds crazy lol but tell them if they keep selling, your tacking on $250 to the rent as hush money, and have them sign a contract to start fixing up the house ASAP. “Traffic” people are bad people, but why not use that to an advantage? They make a lot of money and make it fast lol
These people are dangerous. Call the police and report, over and over, that there is drug dealing going on there. Ask the cops if you can sign something to allow them to go on your property at any time. Ask them if you can give them keys to the doors so that they don't have to break them down when they go to the drug bust at 5 AM. It's expensive to fix.
And of course, don't renew their lease. In my state, eviction for non-payment of rent is a lot easier than eviction for "staying over". So you might want to just jack the rent up really, really high, and hope that they leave, or don't pay, so that if you have to evict, it's for non-payment of rent, instead of staying over.
Our experience was that our drug dealing tenants also didn't pay the rent, making eviction easy. If it's a drug dealer, we always pay the lawyer to do the eviction, so that we minimize any contact with the dealers. Like I said, they're dangerous.
I would say call the police and request that they check the place out, but if they do happen to make an arrest your unit becomes a crime scene! I like the idea of outfitting the units with cameras citing security concerns. Tell the tenants that you have seen a lot of people come through the area and you are concerned about the safety of their unit. The hush money thing is dangerous AF. What kind of vibe do you get from them, are they reasonably good tenants otherwise? Do they pay the rent on time? Do they seem reasonable and up for a chat?
@Lesane T. Johnson this unit is one in a group of 8 duplexes (16 units) that I have owned for less than one week. I sent them what I call my "invitation to move" letter... So far they have not responded but my 'spies' tell me that traffic has slowed down significantly today (almost all the tenants I have met complained about their traffic). @Eric Mayer I don't think that these (drugdealer) tenants will view me as a "snitch", I'd really be shocked if they didn't EXPECT me to call the police... but really I mostly just want them to move. I did reach out to a cop I know and he said if the other tenants call in complaints the police will check it out but the tenants probably won't call due to fears of retaliation. @Gary Bimbo I can't raise the rent until their lease expires in July :( . @Karen F. I didn't think about the keys, thx. If they don't move and I have to talk to the police about them, I'll ask if they do that. Their lease is up in July, at least here it shouldn't be an issue to get out a hold over.
What do y'all think about this letter? My hope is that they decide to move, and if they won't, that they do their business off site. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be fans of the upcoming door lock change overs to my control key system either.
Feb. 4, 2020
Dear <tenant name>,
During the short time that we’ve owned the apartments in your complex, we have received numerous complaints from tenants about excessive traffic on <street name>. While attempting to verify these complaints, we have been on site several times and have witnessed the following activities:
cars pull up near your apartment in a steady stream, sometimes parking and other times just left idling, vehicle occupants enter your apartment, spend 2-4 minutes inside, then exit your apartment and drive off.
The frequency and short duration of these visits appears to be consistent with some type of retail activity occurring in your unit. While we applaud your entrepreneurial spirit, this type of retail activity generates excess traffic, and inconsiderate (non-resident) customers block driveways, mailboxes, and trash cans, and otherwise inconvenience other tenants. For these and other reasons, conducting business activities from your apartment is a violation of your lease agreement (Paragraph 11) and MUST STOP IMMEDIATELY.
We don’t want to speculate on the purpose of the ‘retail activities’ that we have observed but we think the best solution would be for you to move out and accordingly we will release you from your lease agreement and waive the notification requirement and the early termination fee.
Additionally, if you leave your apartment in good condition, broom clean and completely empty, and move out before March 10, we will return your $______ security deposit (less any outstanding water bills) on your move-out date rather than making you wait the 30 days permitted by Ohio law. Assuming that you pay rent on <Month #, 2020>, we will also return the prorated balance of the unused rent for <Month>.
Please be advised that if you should decide to remain for the term of your lease, excess traffic will not be tolerated, additional occupants MUST successfully complete a background check and be added to the lease, the security cameras installed outside without permission must be promptly removed, and we will deliver a formal notice to cure. If we continue to see (or hear complaints of) excess traffic we will share our observations of these ‘business activities’ with the <City/County> police department. We will also send out an email encouraging neighbors to report any ‘excess traffic’ and/or possible illegal ‘business activities’ as well.
We always prefer to make arrangements that permit a departing tenant to leave with their entire security deposit and without a record of court filings. If you would like to terminate your lease with the notifications and penalties waived, please notify us by email before <date> and we will send you a termination agreement to e-sign.
Regards,
@Lesane T. Johnson this unit is one in a group of 8 duplexes (16 units) that I have owned for less than one week. I sent them what I call my "invitation to move" letter... So far they have not responded but my 'spies' tell me that traffic has slowed down significantly today (almost all the tenants I have met complained about their traffic). @Eric Mayer I don't think that these (drugdealer) tenants will view me as a "snitch", I'd really be shocked if they didn't EXPECT me to call the police... but really I mostly just want them to move. I did reach out to a cop I know and he said if the other tenants call in complaints the police will check it out but the tenants probably won't call due to fears of retaliation. @Gary Bimbo I can't raise the rent until their lease expires in July :( . @Karen F. I didn't think about the keys, thx. If they don't move and I have to talk to the police about them, I'll ask if they do that. Their lease is up in July, at least here it shouldn't be an issue to get out a hold over.
What do y'all think about this letter? My hope is that they decide to move, and if they won't, that they do their business off site. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be fans of the upcoming door lock change overs to my control key system either.
Feb. 4, 2020
Dear <tenant name>,
During the short time that we’ve owned the apartments in your complex, we have received numerous complaints from tenants about excessive traffic on <street name>. While attempting to verify these complaints, we have been on site several times and have witnessed the following activities:
cars pull up near your apartment in a steady stream, sometimes parking and other times just left idling, vehicle occupants enter your apartment, spend 2-4 minutes inside, then exit your apartment and drive off.
The frequency and short duration of these visits appears to be consistent with some type of retail activity occurring in your unit. While we applaud your entrepreneurial spirit, this type of retail activity generates excess traffic, and inconsiderate (non-resident) customers block driveways, mailboxes, and trash cans, and otherwise inconvenience other tenants. For these and other reasons, conducting business activities from your apartment is a violation of your lease agreement (Paragraph 11) and MUST STOP IMMEDIATELY.
We don’t want to speculate on the purpose of the ‘retail activities’ that we have observed but we think the best solution would be for you to move out and accordingly we will release you from your lease agreement and waive the notification requirement and the early termination fee.
Additionally, if you leave your apartment in good condition, broom clean and completely empty, and move out before March 10, we will return your $______ security deposit (less any outstanding water bills) on your move-out date rather than making you wait the 30 days permitted by Ohio law. Assuming that you pay rent on <Month #, 2020>, we will also return the prorated balance of the unused rent for <Month>.
Please be advised that if you should decide to remain for the term of your lease, excess traffic will not be tolerated, additional occupants MUST successfully complete a background check and be added to the lease, the security cameras installed outside without permission must be promptly removed, and we will deliver a formal notice to cure. If we continue to see (or hear complaints of) excess traffic we will share our observations of these ‘business activities’ with the <City/County> police department. We will also send out an email encouraging neighbors to report any ‘excess traffic’ and/or possible illegal ‘business activities’ as well.
We always prefer to make arrangements that permit a departing tenant to leave with their entire security deposit and without a record of court filings. If you would like to terminate your lease with the notifications and penalties waived, please notify us by email before <date> and we will send you a termination agreement to e-sign.
Regards,
I think your letter sets the tone for what's to come for them.
I doubt they will stay if they think the area is going to result in going to prison.
You also might want to legally concealed carry in the area.
Dope fiends (their customers) as well as dealers can be unpredictable and sketchy in their behavior, and stealing your shoes could result in a bullet to pay for their next high.
Also, watch out for unscrewed but still in the socket, missing, or broken exterior lights--that's rapist stuff. They do that to the lights then hide in the shadows waiting for their victim--fix those and harden them immediately.
If it were mine, I'd be out of the area before 1 in the afternoon.
Just my 2 cents.
Send them a 5 day notice to cure or quit for the obvious consumer business they are operating. If they’re selling drugs, they won’t want to go in front of a judge to explain why 20 people are stopping by per day.
Also, put up a big camera and a sign that says smile you’re on camera.
Actually I wouldn’t do anything till it’s time to nonrenew . Unless you can prove they are selling / doing drugs with real proof there’s nothing you or the cops can do anyways . It’s probably part of the reason you are able to buy this property cheaply ! Bide you’re time , it’ll go by quicker than you think and then kick em out . No sense in poking the hive
It's not that they're dangerous or some super savvy criminals, but it's just that when backed into a corner, people without life skills are going to be unstable. They're going to act like they have nothing to lose and that's what makes people dangerous. Logic doesn't work with dealers and they generally have an excuse or a way to look past any sense of reality you thrust upon them - I would communicate through a proxy saying their have been complaints about illicit activities and also a notification from the police - do your best to make sure they don't know your name as the owner.
@Jill F.
My neighbor died. His wife died. The house went to auction because the family didn't want the house.
The nice young lady that moved in, left after the first month, and it turned into a dope house and a dope distribution point.
....the things you KNOW when you live right next door .....
2 years later the cops didn't do a thing. They said they needed to get inside the house and make a buy to move forward. Ugh!
Just after Thanksgiving, someone bought the house. He invited himself in, and advised all that they needed to leave. "Move me" was the beginning of that reply.
So, the next day he came back. He told them he was doing some Remodeling. He dismantled the kitchen, including the cabinets, and even stacked dishes nicely outside against the house.
Then the plaster walls came down. ......
4 days into the Remodeling, the power for the TV was interrupted. They left!
Illegal? Only after legal action tells you it is.
These are dopers. The kids are dropped off to play in the yard, but only when the big deals are done in the basement. You think they want the cops to come? Think not.
The new owner is a fellow Marine. He works as a cement mason, is solid as a brick "restroom ", and over 6' tall. He bought the house, and that was that!
This in Illinois. He was not within the law.
I dont think he cared. I didn't care.
Illinois law would have pushed back the conviction process until April.
The dopers were gone before Christmas.
I am not a lawyer. I am not giving legal advice.
Just sharing a story that still makes me smile ear, to ear!
@Jill F. Don’t tell them it’s rent, tell them it’s the fee for using the house. They’ll think about but will end up leaving lol
In the future, add a no commercial use clause on your lease, something like:
COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY: TENANT(s) agrees and understands that LANDLORD does not permit commercial/business activities on the premises being rented AND LANDLORD may, upon service of a 5-day notice to TENANT, terminate the tenancy of TENANT, without giving TENANT an opportunity to remedy the default, if TENANT, a member of TENANT household, or a guest or other invitee of TENANT or of a member of TENANT household engages in any commercial activity that increases traffic to the property and/or threatens the health or safety of, or right to peaceful enjoyment of the premises by, other TENANT(s).
So, doesn't matter what causes the traffic, the traffic itself is a lease violation.
You probably already sent it, but forget the letter. Notify the police that drug dealing is going on there. Give them the exact unit, and the names of the people who are holding the lease (they've probably got records already). Get a lawyer right away to file a notice to quit for criminal activity, and pay the lawyer to take care of it. Don't go near the property until they are gone. Pretend you are a gigantic out of state corporate owner. Be that anonymous, and stay alive.