Tenant taking smoke alarms off

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Tenant taking smoke alarms off

Marisa Alvarez
Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes

3 bedroom house with 5 kids.

Went for an inspection, smoke alarms were off including the bedroom ones. Tenant says it because when she cooks all the smoke alarms 馃毃 in the house 馃彙 go off.

Of course I want her to put them back.

What would you do ? How you handle this ? Has anyone had the same situation ?

馃槼馃槼馃槼馃槼馃槼

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James Williams
Macon, GA 路 Member since 2015 路 2 posts 路 13 votes
6y

As a firefighter my opinion may be slightly biased because I've seen the cases that "probably won't happen"; however, if there was a fire, all liabilities would fall on the landlord if there were not functioning smoke detectors and a kitchen fire extinguisher in place. It would be your job to prove in court that the Tennant tampered with them. At the end of the day, they do not have the option to remove them. 

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  • Brittany R.
    Investor 路 NY 路 Member since 2020 路 57 posts 路 44 votes
    6y

    Honestly, you did your job as a landlord by installing them. If and when her lease had ended and she moves out, make sure that all of the alarms are accounted for and if not, charge it to her deposit. It's really not a big deal. 

    I mean you could tell her to put them back and then after you leave but, I'm pretty sure that she's going to take them back down anyway.

    1Reply
  • James Williams
    Macon, GA 路 Member since 2015 路 2 posts 路 13 votes
    6y

    As a firefighter my opinion may be slightly biased because I've seen the cases that "probably won't happen"; however, if there was a fire, all liabilities would fall on the landlord if there were not functioning smoke detectors and a kitchen fire extinguisher in place. It would be your job to prove in court that the Tennant tampered with them. At the end of the day, they do not have the option to remove them. 

    13Reply
  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor 路 Florida Panhandle/Illinois 路 Member since 2016 路 4k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Marisa Alvarez

    Tell your tenants to reinstall the smoke detectors as they are a life safety requirement.  This way you can say they were installed when you left and document they were reinstalled and follow up in writing to them the smoke detectors must remain in place.  Unfortunately smoke is what kills people way before the fire ever gets to them.

    3Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Narragansett, RI 路 Member since 2013 路 8k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    6y

    She must re-install them and you should issue that violation in writing.  I would let her know you are willing to come by to see if there is a malfunction(assuming they are interconnected).  Any possibility there is an issue with where the kitchen detector is installed?  Otherwise  if she just burns stuff she will have to listen to them go off.  

    3Reply
  • Jill F.
    Investor 路 Akron, OH 路 Member since 2016 路 2k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    6y

    Uh-uh, if that detector is not right near the stove, it's almost always because they are smoking when they do that. I wouldn't have that. This is going to be a pita but you are going to need to deal with it.  I would proceed as follows:
    1) Reinstall all smoke detectors.
    2) Have tenant attempt to demonstrate the problem. (or call you so they can demo next time it happens if they can't make it happen on demand)
    3) Adjust place as needed for legitimate placement issues.
    4) If failure to keep smoke detectors working is a breech of your lease then do a formal notice to cure as required by your state just to have it on record. 

    1Reply
  • Ryan Heywood
    St. Helena, CA 路 Member since 2016 路 147 posts 路 59 votes
    6y

    Also might be worth figuring out why the house gets smokey enough to set the alarms off. Does the kitchen have a vent fan? Is the filter clean. I would be adamant that they stay installed, and document it in written format. You'll need to be able to prove that you provided the house with functioning alarms. You don't want to end up with it being your word against theirs.

    4Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 路 15k+ posts 路 11k+ votes
    6y

    It should be in the lease and therefore a violation of the lease.  The location of the smoke alarms is important and they should be outside the bedrooms, but not right in the kitchen. If they are in the kitchen, they will go off all the time.

    What happens if there is a fire and smoke alarms have been removed or disabled.  Your insurance won't cover it.

    1Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor 路 Los Angeles, CA 路 Member since 2017 路 2k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    6y

    I would send her a written notice of lease violation via Certified Mail and follow up with an in-person inspection in a couple of days to make sure that they have been reinstalled and are in working order. The next time they are removed, I file for eviction. 

    When the house burns down and kills her children, you do not want her pointing the finger at you. You're not just potentially on the hook monetary wise, but you could find yourself criminally charged. 

    I would also non-renew her lease. If her cooking causes the smoke alarm to go off, then she is not properly watching what she is cooking and creating a fire hazard. I don't need that in my unit.

    8Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor 路 Philadelphia, PA 路 Member since 2015 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    6y

    document and correct

    document and correct

    document and correct

    If something tragic happens at least you have the paper trail backing you up

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor 路 Central, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 950 posts 路 821 votes
    6y

    @Marisa Alvarez

    Same thing @Max T. is saying and most others.  
    send a letter stating they have 3 days to correct the issue.  Then inspect if they fail to file for eviction. 
    if you didn鈥檛 smell cigarette smoke either they are vaping inside (just as bad for property damage), or if you smoke you wouldn鈥檛 be able to smell it sadly.  

    I had a Chain smoker in a property I took over and they refused to stop smoking inside so they were sent packing.  However, they caused thousands of dollars in damage.  Never again.  

    2Reply
  • Sean McKennaPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Goffstown, NH 路 Member since 2019 路 80 posts 路 59 votes
    6y

    @Marisa Alvarez oh Jesus. This sort of thing makes me mad. They are not only putting your property at risk but the children.

    The good smoke detectors are expensive. Especially the combo ones with co.

    You don鈥檛 need to be a firefighter to know this needs rectified immediately.

    Document, document, document.

    It鈥檚 usually only $40 bucks to pay the fire inspector to give you a smoke certificate. I would definitely call the lieutenant at the fire department and explain your situation. They will help you. They are there to serve you and they are incredibly smart. The lieutenant will have seen some sh*t in his years. He won鈥檛 want to remove those dead children any more than you want to deal with fire damage.

    I might also be biased also tho. As an HVAC tech I deal with fire inspectors frequently. I鈥檓 always impressed with there level of knowledge and willingness to help.

    0Reply
  • Llewelyn A.
    Investor / Broker 路 Brooklyn, NY 路 Member since 2016 路 665 posts 路 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Marisa Alvarez

    Well, I have a very high tech way of doing it. I have installed Smart Smoke Detectors like this one First Alert ZCOMBO

    I actually have the same problem with one of my tenants. BUT, since I have started automating my rentals, it's easy for me to install a smart Smoke Detector and see it's status on my phone.

    Here is a snapshot of my phone showing the smoke detector indicating it's clear:

    Is it high Tech? YES.......... but I think Investors and Landlords need to get with technology to solve these problems.

    If the tenant turns it off, it will show the Smoke Detector as offline.

    The only way that my apt can have a fire and I won't know about it is if the tenant throws it away. But then it would disconnect from the internet and I would know anyway.

    Something to think about and I know most Landlords won't go this high tech!

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Brittany R. Thank you !

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @James Williams thank you and yes you are right

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Kenneth Garrett thank you for your reply. How do you document that they were reinstalled? Is a video enough or do you document any other way ?

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Jill F. Thank you for your answer. Will do exactly that

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Theresa Harris thank you for your teply. I thought smoke alarms should be inside the bedrooms too.

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Greg M. Wow yes, you are right. Absolutely

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Max T. Thank you for your reply.

    By document and correct you mean to send her the lease violation notice ?

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Eric C. Thank you for your reply. No there was no smoking smell.

    I didn鈥檛 know vaping damaged the property also ! I wouldn鈥檛 know if they are but would vaping set the smoke alarms on ?

    0Reply
  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor 路 Florida Panhandle/Illinois 路 Member since 2016 路 4k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Marisa Alvarez

    Yes a video showing the alarms are installed and the testing of the detectors.  

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Sean McKenna Wow !! I did not know I could go to the fire department and ask for help. Please can you explain me more about that ? I will go tomorrow

    0Reply
  • Marisa Alvarez
    OP
    Rental Property Investor 路 Clearwater, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 112 posts 路 29 votes
    6y

    @Llewelyn A. WOWWWWW !!! This is totally High Tech !!! Amazing !!! Please tell me more about automating your rentals. Do you pay the internet ?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor 路 Central, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 950 posts 路 821 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:

    @Eric C. Thank you for your reply. No there was no smoking smell.

    I didn鈥檛 know vaping damaged the property also ! I wouldn鈥檛 know if they are but would vaping set the smoke alarms on ?

     Yes however unlikely vaping Can and will set off a smoke detector.  


    yes anything that produces residue that sticks to the wallS can cause issues.  

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Riverside, CA 路 Member since 2017 路 412 posts 路 296 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:

    @Kenneth Garrett thank you for your reply. How do you document that they were reinstalled? Is a video enough or do you document any other way ?

     Take pictures, have her sign a disclosure that the smoke alarms were installed and working, video record the conversation. If that doesn't cause her to realize how important this is, you give her notice to leave based on violation of lease and appropriate law. She will either get the message and cooperate or you really, really don't want her as a tenant. Even if she is the irresponsible one, how would you ever get over it if one of her little ones died from your negligence?

    0Reply
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