Tenant taking smoke alarms off

Rental Property Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2015 · 112 posts · 29 votes

3 bedroom house with 5 kids.

Went for an inspection, smoke alarms were off including the bedroom ones. Tenant says it because when she cooks all the smoke alarms 🚨 in the house 🏡 go off.

Of course I want her to put them back.

What would you do ? How you handle this ? Has anyone had the same situation ?

😳😳😳😳😳

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James Williams

Macon, GA · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 13 votes

As a firefighter my opinion may be slightly biased because I've seen the cases that "probably won't happen"; however, if there was a fire, all liabilities would fall on the landlord if there were not functioning smoke detectors and a kitchen fire extinguisher in place. It would be your job to prove in court that the Tennant tampered with them. At the end of the day, they do not have the option to remove them.

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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:
@Theresa Harris thank you for your teply. I thought smoke alarms should be inside the bedrooms too.

Where I am, and in most of the houses I've seen, there is usually one per floor in a house. In my house, they are outside the bedroom. The reason being most fires start in the kitchen and if people are asleep, they need to hear the alarm. If they are up (ie not in their bedroom), they are likely to smell the smoke or see it.
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Mark H. Porter
Investor · SC NC, VA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes
6y
Here in Vermont we can call he fire chief who can issue a violation and fine.
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Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
We had a case here where the tenant removed them, there was a fire & guess who got fined $10k.
I had one guy take a hammer to one instead of just changing the battery & these people get to vote & replicate???
2 Reply
Brian Hamel
Nashua, NH · Member since 2017 · 66 posts · 58 votes
6y
@Marisa Alvarez
Since getting into owning property I have watched the local news when it comes to fires with a different level of attention then I did previously. I have insurance so I’m not super paranoid about one of my places catching fire but people dying in it is more concern. What I have noticed is two ways people die in fires. One they are to old to escape and two smoke detectors are not working. No smoke detectors turn a fire into a funeral.
1 Reply
Virginia Houston
Real Estate Broker · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2020 · 40 posts · 27 votes
6y
If we perform an inspection where a tenant does not have the smoke detectors (or any other tenant damage), we take pictures and send a 7 day notice to cure letter. This gives the tenant 7 days to address the issue noted, and then we go back out to reinspect that the issues are indeed handled. If they are not, we will complete it ourselves and charge the tenant back for the repair. In the case of smoke detectors, it may be worth following up with another inspection, and subsequently eviction for noncompliance with lease terms.
1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:
3 bedroom house with 5 kids.
Went for an inspection, smoke alarms were off including the bedroom ones. Tenant says it because when she cooks all the smoke alarms 🚨 in the house 🏡 go off.
Of course I want her to put them back.
What would you do ? How you handle this ? Has anyone had the same situation ?
😳😳😳😳😳

Joys of being a landlord....They also take the batteries out whenever they need them for something else lol.
1 Reply
David Dachtera
Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:
3 bedroom house with 5 kids.
Went for an inspection, smoke alarms were off including the bedroom ones. Tenant says it because when she cooks all the smoke alarms 🚨 in the house 🏡 go off.
Of course I want her to put them back.
What would you do ? How you handle this ? Has anyone had the same situation ?
😳😳😳😳😳

Assuming it really is a cooking issue, is there range hood vented to the outdoors?
If not, and the stove is on an outside wall, consider adding that.
0 Reply
Llewelyn A.
Investor / Broker · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 665 posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Marisa Alvarez:
@Llewelyn A. WOWWWWW !!! This is totally High Tech !!! Amazing !!! Please tell me more about automating your rentals. Do you pay the internet ?

Hi Marisa,
The kind of High Tech stuff that I do for rentals are probably well beyond the means that most people on BP will find to be too much in both time and money.
My buildings are all in Brooklyn, NY and all are worth more than $1.5 Million EACH.
You are correct to assume that the Internet is necessary. What I do is either set up a Business Internet for the Building. This costs about $75 per month, or, if I can get one of the tenants to allow me to set up my "Automation Hub" (I use Smartthings HUB in my setup), I will give the tenant $25 per month towards their bill.
There are many ways that Smart Devices can help, not only in the case of smoke detectors.
I have motion detectors which turn on and off lights, cameras that record to the Internet, leak detectors that tell me if there are problems with my basement, particularly if one of my equipment like a Hot Water Heater or Hot Water boiler is leaking, etc.
In fact, I normally buy properties in transitioning neighborhoods, capturing the appreciation as the neighborhood gets better.
The Internet Cameras became very important in this situation for 2 reasons:
1) I kept getting sanitation tickets for dirty sidewalks. I discovered that it was the Neighbor that keep putting trash on my part of the sidewalk. I confronted the neighbor who then stopped doing it.
2) There was drug dealers hanging out in front of the property, dealing. They saw the camera and that caused them to move to another block.
These cameras only cost $100. it records to the Internet. Even if it gets stolen, so what, I can replace it but it's already too late for the person who steals it because the video is already in the cloud and is accessible to only me. Here is how it looks like on my phone:
There are so many things you can solve by doing automation, although there is a education hurdle to get over. There will be other things like when a device gets disconnected, you may have to reconnect it. So that's extra work.
For me, it's worth it. It's also forward thinking. I can now buy a property anywhere and remotely control almost every aspect of it to protect it or even rent the apts out without necessarily being there, by opening locks remotely, etc.
Something to think about! Eventually, I'll start a YouTube Channel to help others understand how to use Home Automation and smart devices to remotely solve your problems.
1 Reply
Ryan Heywood
St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
6y
@Llewelyn A.
I’m currently doing exactly the same. Security cameras that go to the cloud and remote meters for the water. I’m going to look into this for the smoke alarms. I totally agree in moving things towards tech oriented solutions. I’m going to look into these.
1 Reply
Ryan Heywood
St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
6y
@Marisa Alvarez
The fire marshal would be able to quickly tell you where each alarm needs to be. Wouldn’t hurt to verify that everything is in the correct spot while your handling this.
0 Reply
Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
6y
Make sure your lease mandates that they do not disable/remove smoke/fire/CO detectors. My lease has a sentence or two about it being for their safety as much as to protect the property.
Most of these detectors have anti-tamper plastic piece typically found on the back of the detector. The anti tamper pieces are attached to the detector via break away plastic. They are not very secure and can be defeated with just a bit of effort. However, that little bit of effort required may be just enough for them to not disable the detectors. I suggest landlords use the anti-tamper functionality provided. So far since we have used the anti tamper feature, I have only had one tenant correctly remove the anti tamper feature and one tenant who simply ripped the unit out of the wall. Most tenants realize that they do not know how to by-pass the anti tamper and do not want to rip it off the wall.
We recent (last Oct, but the rebuild is on-going) had a fire take out two units. The tenant in one unit stated the fire by smoking outside and being careless. The unit did not have the anti tamper feature installed on the fire/smoke detectors (and does not have gas so does not have a requirement/need for CO detectors). The source unit had two disabled fire/smoke alarms (out of 4), including the one closest to the fire. The other unit had all detectors operational. In addition, the fire extinguisher, while still being green, was way past its annual inspection (3 years past). Technically, because the unit was only a duplex, we were not required to have a fire extinguisher. We got a discussion from the fire inspector about the need to maintain the fire extinguisher via annual inspections (even though it worked) and about the need to inspect the various detectors at least annually. She gave us a sheet to track detector inspections and extinguisher maintenance/inspection (I suspect there is an app that could do the same thing more reliably). No fines, just a discussion (plus the detectors were present, which clearly means disabled by the tenant).
I suspect that in this case working detectors would not have helped because the fire was discovered fairly early but it was a severe, near zero humidity day. The fire could not be extinguished with the fire extinguisher. The early detection would not be the case for an electrical fire that starts in the middle of the night. It is important that the detectors are operational.
The extinguisher was operational so being 3 years past inspection played no role.
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Account Closed
Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Marisa Alvarez
99% chance this is a breach according to local legislation. However, here’s the rub: if the house burns down and you knew they were decommissioning detectors, are you insured? Bet not. Having dealt with the fire inspector many times I can tell you the first word ruin they ask the responding unit when they arrive is “did you hear alarms?”. If not, you’re getting a fine, possibly large one. Two option for tenant, leave the alarms active/ in place and learn to cook, or leave the alarms active/ in place and find a new house to live in.
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Daryl Anderson
Contractor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 50 votes
6y
There should not be a smoke detector in the kitchen. Electric code doesn’t require it.
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