Hardwood flooring: does this look like normal wear and tear?

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Hardwood flooring: does this look like normal wear and tear?

Jack B.

Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

After 2 years and 8 months?

Before pictures (note in there is a reflection of light in some of the first 3 before pics).

After (note the areas that need complete refinishing...

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Ramon Flores

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes

@Jack B. You don't have to be rude. You are asking for people's opinions. I commented what my experience has been with hardwood floors to try to help. If you don't want to believe me no problem, there is no need for salt.

Best of luck!

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Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Hi Jack,
I have never seen a Hardwood floor wear through the finish like that.
Not saying they don't, just that I have never seen this before.
It seem like not normal wear and tear unless it was refinished with a non-floor type finish product.
If it has proper floor finish on it, it looks like damage vs "Normal" wear and tear.
If it has a non-floor finish on it, then it was inferior to begin with, and wear through is to be expected.
Good Luck!
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Max T.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
It looks pretty rough but hard to tell.
How did it look after the 1st year? 2nd year?
Did you allow pets?
Require area rugs on high traffic spots?
Provide felt furniture sliders for heavy furniture items at move in?
I really like wood floors and budget for a quick refinish (light sand and one re-coat) every ~2 years at a cost of about $600/room. Wood floors can be some of the longest lasting flooring with proper care. I emphasize proper care with tenants at lease start and inspections.
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Ramon Flores
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes
6y
To me it looks like normal wear and tear. Some hardwood floors loose their "shine" after being used for a year or two. If you buff out the hardwood floor it will look brand new!
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Jack B.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Ramon Flores:
To me it looks like normal wear and tear. Some hardwood floors loose their "shine" after being used for a year or two. If you buff out the hardwood floor it will look brand new!

Ummmmm....that isn't lost shine. Look again. There are huge areas where there was so much traffic it looks like it was sanded down.
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Ramon Flores
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes
6y
@Jack B. My last place had hardwood floors. My wife and I never did anything crazy or bad to the floor and it looked exactly like that after a year. I think my wife might have used the wrong cleaning product on it and it looked different.
I would consult with a company that does hardwood floors. Perhaps they have better insight.
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Jack B.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Ramon Flores:
@Jack B. My last place had hardwood floors. My wife and I never did anything crazy or bad to the floor and it looked exactly like that after a year. I think my wife might have used the wrong cleaning product on it and it looked different.
I would consult with a company that does hardwood floors. Perhaps they have better insight.

You guys must be hard on the flooring. One of my rentals of 7 years has flooring the same condition as the day I bought it through multiple tenants. I noticed the wear in these after pictures is in the same areas where they would be walking/sitting on the couch where their feet would be on the floor. I agree with the other two posters, this isn't normal wear. If you really think this is normal from your experience then you are hard on flooring like these tenants were. They didn't finish the floor in those spots or wipe away the gloss. It literally has so much wear it looks and feels sanded down....Jebus...

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Ramon Flores
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes
6y
@Jack B. You don't have to be rude. You are asking for people's opinions. I commented what my experience has been with hardwood floors to try to help. If you don't want to believe me no problem, there is no need for salt.
Best of luck!
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Cole Raiford
Rental Property Investor · Gulfport, MS · Member since 2018 · 113 posts · 133 votes
6y
@Jack B. Looks normal to me...
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
That bare spot is not normal wear and rear. Assuming it has at least 2 coats of oil based polyurethane (3 is better), someone would really have to work on it to take the finish to nothing. That appears to me to be in front of a couch or something similar where there was heavy non stop traffic without any kind of protection.
That said, you can spot repair polyurethane especially for a rental that should have some area rugs. It won't look 100% like a floor done all at once but it will look good and be perfectly acceptable for a rental.
Next time you refinish the floor consider going to a satin finish. It protects just as well, is easier to spot repair and disguises flaws better.
In our homes with wood floors we describe normal wear and rear in our info sheet and leave a starter pack of felt pads and slides on the counter. The packs cost about 10 bucks at Lowe's and shows them how they should be thinking about their furniture.
If it makes you feel any better, good wood flooring can last for many years even with tenant abuse. I have original floors in several of my houses that are from the 1930s and are still serviceable.
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Ramon Flores
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes
6y
@Jack B. Like I said there is no need to be rude or salty. If you don't like or agree with other's people's experiences then you should not be on the internet.
I have seen this first hand, and contrary to what you think you may or may not know about me. I take great care of my floors. This is not the result of being "sanded" down. Perhaps gloss was the wrong word to say. But it definitely is the result of normal wear and tear. Like I mentioned earlier you should contact someone who specializes in hardwood floors and they can give you the answer you need. I'm glad I helped you out. Best wishes bud!
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Account Closed
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Normal wear and tear is what happens when someone uses something for it's intended purpose in a normal way. It's normal for people to put their feet down in front of their couch and to walk around on their floor. So, in my opinion, if it's just wear from traffic with bare feet, especially, and not cleats, it's normal wear and tear.

Now, if they spilled red wine and used a wire brush to try and clean it up - that's another story. I kind of wondered if something like that may have happened - where they wore away the coating by scrubbing a stain. And if that's the case - then it's not normal wear and tear.

I guess you could talk to them about it and see if they copped to scrubbing a stain.
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Michael Noto
Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Jack B. Sounds like you don't think it is normal wear and tear so deduct for the repair and let it play out from there.
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Michael Gessner
Pomona, NY · Member since 2016 · 375 posts · 217 votes
6y
@Jack B. When the floors were refinished how many actual coats of poly were applied ? They should not have worn thru within 2 years, not like that if I'm reading the pictures currently. Also was oil based poly used or water based. A good reputable for guy would do 3 coats of poly oil based I may add. Water base just does not hold up like oil based. Also if it's not down to the wood yet, and no staining has acured then they can be screeded and repolyed
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Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
From the first "after picture" it looks like there are other spots where the finish is gone. I'm leaning toward poor initial coating job or wrong product used.
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Justin V.
Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 132 votes
6y
@Jack B.
A few thoughts:
Did your tenants wear shoes in the property and we’re they dirty? If you track in dirt on sneakers there is your sanding action. Any photos of the property while occupied should help determine this.
Any pets? Pacing animals can do a bunch of damage. Also dog water/food areas result in lots of heavy cleaning or animal licking too which eats finish. Dog cleaning up after couch eaters is a thought.
Who did your floors previously? They might suck. I’d have them out and a couple of their competitors to get a better feel for what happened.
$2 per sqft is what I’m charged in my area for a sand down and refinish. $1 for a buff and add a coat.
How do you depreciate floors? I think I say they should last over 10 years between refinished, but I’m new to this.
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Andrew S.
Rental Property Investor · Helena, MT · Member since 2017 · 282 posts · 117 votes
6y
Looks like like the coating(s) put on the floor were inadequate
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Marci Stein
Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
6y
I am not sure what “normal wear and tear “ really means .
the condition in which I rent it out should be maintained by the tenant so that it looks the same after they leave as when they moved in .
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Brian Ellis
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Would I consider it normal wear and tear? I guess it depends on the tenant, and the rest of the house. Either they were really hard on the floors, or you only did one coat of poly.
I just had a turnover where I had to boot one of my tenants, the floors looked like that. But the rest of the house was in bad shape as well, so I deducted it from their security deposit.
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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
6y
Was it oil based polyurethane or water based?
I think it can be normal wear with an inferior finish. Note one coat of cheap water based polyurethane will look good after being applied, but it will not last. 3 coats of quality oil based polyurethane will likely last at least 10 years with just a quick top coat between tenants.
Regardless, I think you may find it difficult to collect for damages. The finish has worn through. Most jurisdictions will side with the tenant on anything that can be considered normal wear n tear. If your unit is in Seattle, I would bet a lunch that you loose on this not being wear n tear if this goes to court.
My units are in a similar jurisdiction as Seattle. I would not waste my time going to court for this, that is how confident I would be of an unfavorable verdict. I think you can try to charge the tenant something for the "damage", but if they dispute it, I suggest you let it go.
Good luck
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David Vargas
Contractor · Hopatcong, NJ · Member since 2020 · 24 posts · 14 votes
6y
I'm a wood flooring contractor. The first three pictures do not look good either. Yes there is a sheen but that does not look like they were just done. If those are pictures of a refinished floor, I think you need a new refinisher.
Does it look like normal wear? For a rental, I think so. Most rental owners that contact me only want to do the bare minimum. 2 coats and that's it. That's no longer good enough. You need 3 coats of finish if you want a chance to just do maintenance coats after each tenant. Maybe 10 years ago 2 coats was good enough. But now the VOC content is so regulated that the finish changes often.
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Lien VuongBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Boston, MA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Pictures are very poor quality but they look average to me. If you feel like rebuffing them can get you more rent I'd do so but they look like they could be rented tomorrow.
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William Bucklin
Rental Property Investor · Waterville, ME · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 19 votes
6y
@Jack B.
“I’m not being rude”. Also jack b “btw your opinion isn’t all that great”
My objective opinion (which you also find not all that great) is that you were actually quite rude then very juvenile when called out. That behavior is a better fit for reddit rather than BiggerPockets. These forums are filled with professionals who take note of interactions. Someone who is quick insult and slow to apologize is not someone most people look to do business with. In real estate, your brand is your business, and I’m not sure your building the brand you really want to. So you could go with your emotional response and get defensive with me when I try to give you some constructive feedback. You could just not respond. Or you could just own your part whether you think your right or wrong on everything. The last will do more for your business than continuing to posture via forums
Respectfully Will
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John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Any kind of wear on the floor would probably be considered normal wear/tear. Gouges from sliding a fridge or other appliance would be damage. Our house has carpet that's 19 years old and it's fine. Just today I tore out 30 month old carpet and pad because it was destroyed. You can't equate what's normal in a rental with what would be normal in your own home.
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David Vargas
Contractor · Hopatcong, NJ · Member since 2020 · 24 posts · 14 votes
6y
@Jack B. So for all you know those floors could be 10 years since the last refinish and it could only have 2 coats of finish. Yet you want them to be in pristine condition after your tenants move out almost three years later?
You are dreaming.
Yes, clearly the areas where it wore through all of the finish looks excessive. But that floor was ready for a refinish regardless. So I do not think all of that burden should be on the tenant but def a portion of it.
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William Bucklin
Rental Property Investor · Waterville, ME · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 19 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Jack B.:
Originally posted by @William Bucklin:
@Jack B.
“I’m not being rude”. Also jack b “btw your opinion isn’t all that great”
My objective opinion (which you also find not all that great) is that you were actually quite rude then very juvenile when called out. That behavior is a better fit for reddit rather than BiggerPockets. These forums are filled with professionals who take note of interactions. Someone who is quick insult and slow to apologize is not someone most people look to do business with. In real estate, your brand is your business, and I’m not sure your building the brand you really want to. So you could go with your emotional response and get defensive with me when I try to give you some constructive feedback. You could just not respond. Or you could just own your part whether you think your right or wrong on everything. The last will do more for your business than continuing to posture via forums
Respectfully Will

Ummmm...you clearly don't get it. The guy clearly can't see the difference between the first pictures and second pictures and says looks like gloss was lost, lol. Then he claims his place looked the same after 1 year of living there. Yeah, I'm going to call out people who have poor power of observation and can't figure out that as most others have noted, this isn't normal wear and tear. There is a GIANT wear mark in the middle of the living room. NONE of the other rooms have this, they all look the same as when they moved in. But thanks for your opinion, accredited investors like me really don't care what you think or people who think the difference between the first and second set of pictures is just a lack of gloss. A 5 year old could tell it isn't...and the only person who upvoted your post is the guy in question while multiple people upvoted mine calling him out....that ought to tell you something...

So you chose the emotional response and got defensive.
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