Is it possible to self-manage from “a distance”?
Jeff AlwinePro Member
Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votesIs it possible to self-manage from “a distance”?
Most Popular Reply
Investor/Agent/Entrepreneur · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 464 posts · 564 votes
6yIt's definitely possible. I'd travel out of country over 30% of the year, and still managed to run everything just fine as all my operations were streamlined. In the last few years I only forced myself to go visit due to paranoia but otherwise there was no need. Have your tenants direct deposit all funds into your bank account, do not personally accept any cash/checks. All documents via Docusign/electronic signature. All maintenance issues, have them explain the issue via email with pictures and a description. You can then use the pictures/videos and summary to get quotes for big jobs, or just call a local handyman to do the work. For these small jobs I've used craigslist guys and have been mostly fine, but you can use a more reputable company and pay a bit more for the comfort if you wish. All coordination was done over the phone, email, or text.
Now the few times are if you need to file for eviction, go to court for any reason (e.g. violations), showing the property to new tenants, renovating between tenants, or need to go to the city/county office for filing documents/payments (if they are archaic and don't allow for mail-in/email), then you may need to drive down once in a blue moon. Otherwise, for those minor items, you could partner with a property mgt. company. I actually had a little deal with a PM where I would pay him $50/hr for a quick drive down to check on the properties, take pictures of condition, file something at the city, etc. as a contingency plan in the case I was overseas and couldn't do it myself remotely.
So is it possible? Definitely. It just depends on where you stand in the spectrum of passive investing vs. making every single penny you can on the property. I chose being more passive with a lot more peace of mind, but by operating my business the way I did I managed to only leave very little on the table.
54 Replies
- 6yBjorn AhlbladPro MemberInvestor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
@Jeff Alwine 1.5 hrs is a lot farther than 1 hr. We make 1 hr the max for us and have a 12 unit 1 easy hour away. It can be done w/o major headaches. Building has to be well maintained and you need to have trades that you can rely on. You need a handy person you can call, and you need one dependable tenant who is home much of the time and is willing to do simple door opening etc for reduced rent. If you are efficient on the internet and phone and have those other bases covered it is not that hard.
- Investor/Agent/Entrepreneur · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 464 posts · 564 votes6y
It's definitely possible. I'd travel out of country over 30% of the year, and still managed to run everything just fine as all my operations were streamlined. In the last few years I only forced myself to go visit due to paranoia but otherwise there was no need. Have your tenants direct deposit all funds into your bank account, do not personally accept any cash/checks. All documents via Docusign/electronic signature. All maintenance issues, have them explain the issue via email with pictures and a description. You can then use the pictures/videos and summary to get quotes for big jobs, or just call a local handyman to do the work. For these small jobs I've used craigslist guys and have been mostly fine, but you can use a more reputable company and pay a bit more for the comfort if you wish. All coordination was done over the phone, email, or text.
Now the few times are if you need to file for eviction, go to court for any reason (e.g. violations), showing the property to new tenants, renovating between tenants, or need to go to the city/county office for filing documents/payments (if they are archaic and don't allow for mail-in/email), then you may need to drive down once in a blue moon. Otherwise, for those minor items, you could partner with a property mgt. company. I actually had a little deal with a PM where I would pay him $50/hr for a quick drive down to check on the properties, take pictures of condition, file something at the city, etc. as a contingency plan in the case I was overseas and couldn't do it myself remotely.
So is it possible? Definitely. It just depends on where you stand in the spectrum of passive investing vs. making every single penny you can on the property. I chose being more passive with a lot more peace of mind, but by operating my business the way I did I managed to only leave very little on the table.
- Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votes6y
@Bjorn Ahlblad Having a well-maintained property clicks and I really appreciate the thought of having a local tenant be a go-to handyman when S hits the fan- makes a lot of sense.
- Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes6y
It is possible, but it is good to have someone on the ground in case you need boots there. However, you can form relationships with different trades and let them in to your building with a if need be. We've slowly been adding Ring or Nest cameras along with wireless electronic door locks. The Nest x Yale lock is pretty good with this. You can send a code just for that tech to let them into the building and do what needs to be done. It's best to have them coordinate with the tenant if it is a tenant issue, but yes, it is possible.
To be honest, most property managers are not very good and do little work anyway. Many just collect rent, call tenants and chase them for the rent and call trades to do repairs. Half the time, you have no idea if the "fix" or "repair" was worth it. We recently took over a building which was ran (into the ground) by a property management company. All they did was collect rent and they made one of the tenants a "super". This, effectively made the PM do literally nothing and charged the landlord their 12% fee and charged them additional fees on top the discounted rent the "super" collected. It was a class act.
It might be an idea to go to a REI group and form some contacts with other landlords in the area who can meet a trade at your building if you are unable to do so. Renting the place out though without you on the ground can be an issue though. You can connect with a realtor for that, but it's hit or miss there too. - Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votes6y
@Ujwal Velagapudi Had to lookup West Bloomfield as it seemed familiar- I’ve stayed there before as I do field work so I value your thoughts on what to do when out of town/ out of the country. I really like your “remote” landlording ideas.
Also, great ideas on using the pro PM to make your life easier, only when needed- great stuff - 6yNicholas ZaharevichPro MemberRental Property Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2016 · 82 posts · 41 votes
Hey @Jeff Alwine, it would all depend on how comfortable you are with managing from a remote distance. I currently manage 5 SFHs that range from a 10 minute drive to a 5 hour drive one way. Now, I didn't start that way, but just grew into it. My first home become a rental after getting married. My wife and I moved to SC for work and were forced to manage from across the country. We spent most of our time building a strong network the in area leaning pretty heavily on friends and family at first. To this day, we still manage our own properties, but generally hire out handyman work.
- Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votes6y
I’m blown away with the speed and quality of responses from my question- thank you all.
@Calvin Thomas Awesome thought with having other trades be eyes and ears if need be, as well as the electronic locks. I love mine but it can’t create a one-time use over the airwaves. I will check out the Nest.
I’m grateful for more people that aren’t in the “farm out the management” group.
Lastly, the idea to network with other “local” landlords to get some help is cool- how would one go about paying them back? - Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 16 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine
Yes. I have a local handyman with connections. Worth his weight in gold. Unless you plan on unstuffing toilets, get a team together,l and create redundancies.
- Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 16 votes6y
In what location are the houses located?
- Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votes6y
@Joshua Klein Most likely Martinsburg, WV or Hagerstown, MD. Possibly Front Royal or Winchester, VA. I still need to look into taxes and such then look, and look until I find the right property for my needs.
I’m still very much at the starting gates- this situation we’re in has afforded me the chance to do a lot of reading and research into all of this - Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes6y
Originally posted by @Jeff Alwine:
I’m blown away with the speed and quality of responses from my question- thank you all.
@Calvin Thomas Awesome thought with having other trades be eyes and ears if need be, as well as the electronic locks. I love mine but it can’t create a one-time use over the airwaves. I will check out the Nest.
I’m grateful for more people that aren’t in the “farm out the management” group.
Lastly, the idea to network with other “local” landlords to get some help is cool- how would one go about paying them back?Firstly, you should familiarize yourself with the smart house technology. We are slowly turning all of our units to smart units. Why? It's more efficient and easier to manage and maintain. What we like about Nest is that everything is centralized and you can give access to the tenants and workers. When they are done with the job or the tenant leaves, you just change the code. Tenants like it for ease of use and the money it saves. The thermostats, for instance, you can manage from afar and most utility companies give you instant rebates on them. We use Ring cameras and alarms because the professional service is really inexpensive. If this is a house in a war zone, then the investment wouldn't be worth it.
As for networking, you give them a small fee for their time. Ask them what they think is far. Usually, that is the best way. People do not like to feel short changed or not valued. Over time, you will build a report and what they ask for in terms of compensation will prob. go down because you shown trust and respect for them and their time. Could the dollars, not the pennies over the long run and you'll be ahead of the game.
- 6yChris SvendsenPro MemberFront Royal, VA · Member since 2016 · 306 posts · 240 votes
Originally posted by @Jeff Alwine:
@Joshua Klein Most likely Martinsburg, WV or Hagerstown, MD. Possibly Front Royal or Winchester, VA. I still need to look into taxes and such then look, and look until I find the right property for my needs.
I’m still very much at the starting gates- this situation we’re in has afforded me the chance to do a lot of reading and research into all of thisDo a lot of research before buying in Hagerstown, they have a lot of restrictions when comes to who can work on your houses plus more tenant friendly. Good area price wise, just be educated before diving in head long. Winchester and Stephens City good areas and Front Royal. All about finding right house which hard last couple years since prices went up but plenty of them out there that just need fixed up some.
- Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Jeff Alwine
I’ve done it from 5hr away for the last 7 years. Essentials: a solid on-site for showings and walk throughs & plan A,B,C for generally reliable handyman. Other than that it’s all virtual anyway unless you’re planning on picking up rent in person or cutting the lawn for them or something crazy like that. I rented a 2 bed main floor last week off a video tour alone thanks to Covid. @ $1,600/ month it wasn’t exactly a dive.
- Lender · Martinsburg, WV · Member since 2013 · 171 posts · 93 votes6y
Hi @Jeff Alwine Good luck getting started in your investing career. I have a large personal and joint portfolio in Martinsburg WV and Hagestown MD. Those are a mix of self managed and internally managed with an in house PM. To your question, My first property that I purchased was in Frostburg MD. I recently sold one and still have one there and that is over an hour away. I still self manage it and go there from time to time to check on it and get it re-rented. The #1 thing is getting the best tenant for you properties that are further away. The #2 thing is to have a property that has been rehabbed or has been very well maintained. These are basic fundamentals to real estate investing but so much more important when you are further away from the property. Poor tenants and getting nickeled and dimed by maintenance issues will drive you mad! I take extra special care when selecting tenants for these rentals. I have a very solid process for selecting tenants. When I purchased these properties I did all the work needed to make it tenant proof. You should not leave any deferred maintenance that will cause you and your tenant problems.
These are sexy answers but even with property management this will make your life easy. The #3 thing would be find the best PM you can find if you go that route (talk to all of them and get referrals) before you decide. I have decided to self manage for the last 10 years and I'm happy with that decision.
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 826 posts · 810 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine I self-manage properties 9000 miles away. If you are tech savvy and have tenants that are B-class or better than it’s doable regardless of distance. The one thing that you’ll need is a realtor willing to work with you on placing new tenants when you have turnover.
- Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Allan C.
Agree with the realtor as your possible on-site for showings. One asterisk I would add, depending on how many doors you have don’t leverage the heck out of your all-star realtor for this task, consider someone in the same office that is newer and a little more in need of some additional $. I’ve found the all-star type experiences realtors generally have plenty on their plates but usually know someone a little newer who is looking to pad the Rolodex.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
They won't see this unless I link them because they hang out in STR land but it's definitely possible. I don't do it (all my properties are local to me) but a lot of others do.
Skyline Properties - Property Manager · Windsor Locks, CT · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Great advice @Account Closed!
Hi @Jeff Alwine,
I own a property management company here in Connecticut, and I typically don't recommend that people manage anything over 30 minutes or so. That is just my rule of thumb.
That being said, as evidenced above, plenty of people do it. I think it really depends on the condition of your property, how likely you are to be replacing tenants, and how able you are to find contractors in times of need. I also think it would be wise of you to get a real estate agent to at least show your property, because that is probably the most time consuming part of the business.
If you get yourself a few good contractors, a real estate agent, and have the ability to manage your own books, you will probably be okay. Property management is really worth it to people who need or want a hands-off experience, but for someone looking to save some money, property management is probably not the best route for them.
- 6yLuke CarlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
They won't see this unless I link them because they hang out in STR land but it's definitely possible. I don't do it (all my properties are local to me) but a lot of others do.
I hang out on the landlord forum too but thank you :)
- 6yLuke CarlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
Originally posted by @Jeff Alwine:
Hello all. Hope everyone has kept themselves safe.
I'm new to the world of real estate investing. I live in Manassas, VA- a pretty western suburb of DC. My issue when trying to run numbers on potential deals is that the best areas for rent-to-asking price ratio seem to be about 1-1.5 hours away from me. It seems positive cash flow is POSSIBLE closer in to the city, but with not a truck load of cash, the best places for me appear to be out toward the interstates. I'm looking either SFH or small multi-family.
My question is whether or not it is possible, (read “logical”) to invest in property I intend to manage without a pro, that is not just a quick drive away. Does anyone have success with this or am I better off finding a property manager?I self manage 26 units in 4 different markets. 6 of which are STR with the greatest distance between my properties being 555 miles. I'm rarely in the same town as any of my rentals because I'm rarely in the same time. It's all about systems. Did I mention I have a day job?
I would love it if you hit me up and pick my brain. I'll gladly teach you everything I know!
- Rental Property Investor · Martinsburg, WV · Member since 2017 · 111 posts · 81 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine I'm a former resident of Manassas, so I know your struggle.
I also now live 1.5 hours away from there, probably in one of the locations you have been looking at, so please feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. We've been in the buy and hold game for a little under three years, now, and currently have 9 properties/15 units.
- 6yJason MarcordesPro MemberInvestor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 154 posts · 91 votes
@Jeff Alwine What class is the property? Class A properties (great properties in great areas) are much easier to manage from a distance. We maybe A, B, & C properties and there's a huge difference in the required resources. An A class property will have a great tenant who pays the rent online & on time, will take great care of the property, and the property itself will be updated and low maintenance. Not a ton of "boots on the ground" work to do. Our C class properties require a much more hands on approach....in person rent collections, service of notices, more maintenance, etc. It's MUCH harder to manage these properties from a distance because it requires a lot of in person contact.
- Realtor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 952 posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Jeff Alwine Check out hemlane.com for some help!
- 6yTim JacobPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2016 · 520 posts · 379 votes
Like others have said getting good tenants in well maintained places is the key. I think it all depends on how high quality your assets are. If the place is a real A grade place getting tenants should not be hard if you properly screen. Combine that with things not being broken and it should be fine. If you go with a D grade place getting tenants will be a nightmare but you cant dump that on a decent pm bc you are wasting their time and they wont accept. When you get to C grade its iffy. It will take you longer to show it to get the right person. Thus leasing would be a reason to get a pm so you dont keep going to the property. I highly don't recommend giving the applicants the lockbox combo for showings so you dont have to go there. That sounds like a good way to get a squatter in there.
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