Is it possible to self-manage from “a distance”?
Jeff AlwinePro Member
Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votesIs it possible to self-manage from “a distance”?
Most Popular Reply
Investor/Agent/Entrepreneur · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 464 posts · 564 votes
6yIt's definitely possible. I'd travel out of country over 30% of the year, and still managed to run everything just fine as all my operations were streamlined. In the last few years I only forced myself to go visit due to paranoia but otherwise there was no need. Have your tenants direct deposit all funds into your bank account, do not personally accept any cash/checks. All documents via Docusign/electronic signature. All maintenance issues, have them explain the issue via email with pictures and a description. You can then use the pictures/videos and summary to get quotes for big jobs, or just call a local handyman to do the work. For these small jobs I've used craigslist guys and have been mostly fine, but you can use a more reputable company and pay a bit more for the comfort if you wish. All coordination was done over the phone, email, or text.
Now the few times are if you need to file for eviction, go to court for any reason (e.g. violations), showing the property to new tenants, renovating between tenants, or need to go to the city/county office for filing documents/payments (if they are archaic and don't allow for mail-in/email), then you may need to drive down once in a blue moon. Otherwise, for those minor items, you could partner with a property mgt. company. I actually had a little deal with a PM where I would pay him $50/hr for a quick drive down to check on the properties, take pictures of condition, file something at the city, etc. as a contingency plan in the case I was overseas and couldn't do it myself remotely.
So is it possible? Definitely. It just depends on where you stand in the spectrum of passive investing vs. making every single penny you can on the property. I chose being more passive with a lot more peace of mind, but by operating my business the way I did I managed to only leave very little on the table.
54 Replies
- 6yBob CollettPro MemberProperty Manager · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 464 votes
@Jeff Alwine As a property manager in Cleveland area, I will turn down a client property that is 1 hour or more drive. The main reason is that I can not do a great job if there is 2 or 3 hour drive time to visit the property. I would tend to want to put it off... and my clients deserve better.
On the other hand, in time you can establish relationships with local contractors to fix that toilet, paint a room, etc. You can use local real estate agent to show your home when it becomes available. And you don't have to justify billing your client for 3 hour drive time every time you visit. It probably comes down to how busy you are, how much maintenance you anticipate, and how much you like driving to the given neighborhood where you house would be. In Virginia, you may be use to long commutes. In Cleveland, I can get to any point in the county in 30 to 45 minutes.
Its a tough call.
Good luck
- Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
@Jeff Alwine, while I don't, I know several that do. As mentioned, you need feet on the ground. So a good handyman, electrician, plumber, appliance repairman. From there, payments are mailed, or ideally electronically paid through ACH.
The other piece you will need is a leasing agent. A friend of mine uses her realtor to lease her properties. This can sometimes be hard to find, but my friend owns over 20 houses in Cincinnati while living in San Francisco. The agent finds the deals for her and leases them, with a set of standards that must be maintained.
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine yes but why would you ? If the 8% fee kills the deal its not a deal. Why do you want to be bothered . Sending out repairmen, dealing with late payments etc. Our tenants ( and my personal property tenants ) do not even know who the owners are, or how to contact them, and never will. PM takes care of all.
Good Luck
- Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
From personal experience and from the experience of clients I have, I would recommend starting out with a deal that is local to you that you can manage and learn the business. Reason being is you don't know what you don't know and it is easy to get taken advantage of that way. Once you learn the business you are better equipped to deal with different situations that come up.
- Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes6y
I've seen it sort of done from a distance (management company did showings + rent collection, they did maintenance, turnover, marketing, etc.) With Rently or Showmojo, you could conceivably do it. But it would not be easy and probably not advisable.
- 6yJordan MoorheadBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Jeff Alwine I’ve managed rentals 1000 miles away. You just need reliable handymen and service providers. I had the lawn guy taking a picture of the house every two weeks and handyman doing the same or repairs so I can see condition of house. It’s not much different than how I do things when they’re close by.
The Moorhead Team5140 Reviews - Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine
I would strongly oppose that idea. The reason being is even though you do a good screening job, how do you know if they are changing furnace filters or if the pipe is slowly leaking or corroding in your basement or if somebody decides to build a rabbit home in your backyard. I mean the list goes on and on and on. Even a management company cannot be proactive regarding a leaking pipe or a face plate taken off of an outlet or light switch that. A lot of management companies are reactive not proactive. I find reasons to do walk-throughs at least once every two months just to check on things. I’d rather Eliminate problems before they happen.   
- Member since 2019 · 66 posts · 15 votes6y
@Lucas Carl
Hi can you give me tips on how you are doing a rental from afar. I’m thinking of doing this but I don’t know if it will work. Thanks
- Moorpark, CA · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes6y
Hey Jeff....It's definitely possible to manage from a distance. I live in California and managed my property in Las Vegas which is about 5 hours away from me. I did that for about 15 years. When I had to make trips there for the occasional fixes (Pipe froze and busted in the winter, tree blew over from wind, etc) it was pretty easy. I had a roofer, painter, general handyman and house cleaner on speed dial if I needed one. That said, all my tenants over the years were awesome. My advice would be to vet quality tenants and they can usually help you remotely if something goes bad if/when needed. It's about the relationship in my experience.
- Real Estate Coach · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 272 posts · 414 votes6y
It is possible... if you're going to do it, you should start building your network wherever you're looking at purchasing. Look at the cycle from beginning to end and figure out who you'll need. For example, you'll have to market the property, show the property, take applications, sign a lease, collect rent/security deposit, do a move-in inspection, give the tenant keys, respond to maintenance requests and other items that may arise during tenancy, do the move-out inspection, get keys from tenants, have a maintenance/cleaning team turn the unit, and then start the process all over...
Ask yourself which items you can do from where you're at -- the answer is most of them.
- Putting an ad on FB Marketplace/Craigslist/Zillow/<<whatever's hot in that area>> can be done from anywhere.
- Showing a property can be done with a key lock-box or keyless entry controlled on your phone.
- Applications and lease signing can be done online
- Collecting rent and security deposit can be done online
- Getting keys to the tenant and move-in inspection -- maybe you drive out for that, maybe you figure out how to hire out.
- Maintenance requests -- build your rolodex of professionals in the area... plumber, handyman, GC, roofer, etc... People that you can call to respond to the tenant requests...
- Handle keys and inspections during move-outs like you do move-ins
- Same guys that do maintenance can turn the unit for you... plus a cleaning team.
You get the idea. 90 minutes isn't too long of a drive if you absolutely have to get out there, but I guess that depends on how flexible your schedule is.
Oh, you should definitely plan to make the trip a few times per year for property inspections... You may manage from afar, but you'll want to get eyes on the property periodically to check up on things... Weekly may be too much, quarterly may not be enough. Depends on the property.
- Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine, definitely possible. You need the right set up and a local connection.
What can you do remotely:
- Collect rent online
- Call tenants for late rent
- Coordinate contractors for repairs
- Screen tenants and review applications
- Market your listings online
- Sign and send all agreements or notifications (i.e. late, evictions)
What you cannot do 'immediately' remotely:
- Post notices on doors
- Occasional drive-by inspections
- Self-perform repairs
- Inspections: move-in, move-out
- Handle key swaps
- Last minute showings
If you want to self-manage from a relatively 'out of town' property the key will be setting up a system. Landlord software can help with the general management (rent collection, screening, etc.). You should find a good handyman in town so they can be your last minute hero. They would perform inspections, repairs, or anything that needs to be done in person.
Some tasks you can always travel to perform. Open houses on the weekends. Maintenance you can defer till later.
General note: always underwrite your investments to cover management costs. There might come a day when you want or need to hire management. Anyways you decide to self-manage Day 1, don't trap yourself financially by not being able to afford it in the future.
- Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2016 · 98 posts · 168 votes6y
@Jeff - yes! You can absolutely manage properties well from a distance. You simply have to build a team you can trust. I've been self managing from a 3 hour distance for 15 years. I have found a couple great tradesman for each trade and can call them anytime I need them. It may take some trial and error to find these people, but once you do, the process becomes more autopilot.
- Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes6y
Originally posted by @Jeff Alwine:
Hello all. Hope everyone has kept themselves safe.
I'm new to the world of real estate investing. I live in Manassas, VA- a pretty western suburb of DC. My issue when trying to run numbers on potential deals is that the best areas for rent-to-asking price ratio seem to be about 1-1.5 hours away from me. It seems positive cash flow is POSSIBLE closer in to the city, but with not a truck load of cash, the best places for me appear to be out toward the interstates. I'm looking either SFH or small multi-family.
My question is whether or not it is possible, (read “logical”) to invest in property I intend to manage without a pro, that is not just a quick drive away. Does anyone have success with this or am I better off finding a property manager?Just my input here. All of my properties are 45 minutes drive. I personally don't like them that far, and would hesitate if an hour away. This is for self management. I feel as though getting to that 90 minute each way drive would be difficult, especially if the property needed a lot of work. It all depends on your level of tolerance for the drive.
- Real Estate Coach · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 399 posts · 341 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine you have plenty of great advice here but I want to take it a different direction. Why do you want to self manage? Are you looking to save money on the deal? Get the experience? What's your motivating factor? The rest of the advice is fantastic, but it also helps to know the why
- Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 6 votes6y
@Patrick Menefee Great question. At first my thought is that I’d like to have more of a hand in the problems that arise with the thought that I could always bring in a pro if needed. I feel the experience gained would further my understanding of whether or not a PM is needed going forward.
Also, the extra income definitely wouldn’t hurt as this would be my first deal and allow me to recoup initial investment more quickly as well as just averting some additional risk financially.
I agree with you on there being a TON of great advice both ways. Totally astonished at the responses my question has garnered and look forward to posing more questions and one day being able to help answer some of them...This is a great community that I’m happy to be a part of and I thank everyone for their input
- Real Estate Coach · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 399 posts · 341 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine I can see that logic. Personally, I have a property manager on everything I own and have no intention of self managing. I say that so you can recognize that I am giving a biased perspective :) **also, this wound up a little longer than expected so sorry in advance...hopefully it was helpful!**
There are a million factors to consider in whether or not to self manage, and I can't begin to get into all of them. Your personal life, work life, time availability, etc. are all important factors that I'm not going to get into. What I will talk about though is the perspective of real estate
What is your long term goal you're moving towards by owning a rental? Are you (1) looking to start a property management company, and therefore want to understand the ins and outs of management? Are you (2) looking for a little supplemental income and don't mind the time you spend managing? Are you (3) looking to use real estate as a way to provide enough income to allow you to leave your job? This is not an exhaustive list btw...
It's important to understand your goals first, and then weigh the options. Additionally, it's important to analyze your ROI on everything. Property management has the potential to run the gamut from easy (with amazing tenants) to a complete nightmare (with horrible tenants), and that spectrum of difficulty often ties directly to time. What is the opportunity cost of your time, and what is the highest and best use of that given your above goals?
If your goal is to eventually run a successful property management company, is it better to struggle through it yourself at the beginning when your'e learning both rentals and property management? Or is it better to pay 8-10% of rent and then learn from what they do and don't do? If your goal is supplemental income, can you afford to handle a couple month delay in leasing as you figure out how to place your first tenant or evict the one you put in too quickly?
If your goal is to develop a portfolio that replaces your income, what is the opportunity cost of your time? Is it worth paying 10% of rent to free up the time you would spend on tenants, or is it worth it to save that 10%/mo and put it into your next rental?
There is no right answer to all of these, they're just to get you thinking. Too often I feel like people talk about self-management off the bat to save a buck when instead they could just find a better deal. Consider all the factors and what your goal is, and then figure out what best aligns to your goals. Take the cost into consideration as well, and value your time. Is your rent $500/mo? Or is it $2,000/mo? Saving $50/mo is very different than saving $200/mo, especially because the lower cost tenant will often require more attention and time
Hope that helps! Happy to chat more if I can provide additional insight (and sorry that was so dang long!)
- Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 10 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine yes it is most definitely doable to run properties from a short distance like 1 - 1.5 hrs away from you just put all the systems in place especially for the 1st year. Get you a good home warranty so that you can set up for any thing that may arise...
- Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 43 votes6y
I live in Phoenix and I have ten rentals in Dallas. I refuse to pay 10% gross per month for a property management company, my houses are worth more than 2 million if you want 10% you need to pay me at least $200,000. I refuse to enter a relationship with a conflict of interest, management companies make a lot more for turning over your tenants, I make less with turn over. Also I am and have been a service provider my whole life and it is common practice for management companies to get kick backs. When I give a bid I was instructed to add a certain percentage for the management companies kick back. Usually between 10% and 15% depending on which company it is. This means that all services performed by the management companies will be more expensive possibly adding 10-15% to my service overhead costs.
I didn't know anyone "lone rangering" it but I knew I couldn't do work in those conditions. After two years living 2 days by car away from my properties it's been a breeze. Multiple properties have turned over, I've had notice to vacates taped to doors, now I'm selling one or two. It's so simple.
So this month on the 30th I have a tenant moving out. I know a Mexican guy who I met before I left Dallas who has worked on the houses. He's not licensed for anything but knows how to do most everything. He will do a walk through the checklist and turn on all the faucets, lights, check for damages and change the keys and locks, garage door openers and so on. If something is broken he will fix asap. When he's done with any repairs he will get a cleaning crew in and clean the place. Next I call my realtor and say put it in MLS at this price. She handles all that and charges me one month (which the property management companies would of charged me anyway so that's a wash). My realtor holds all the keys and the Mexican guy gets them from her and drops off the new keys to her. The only reason I don't have the Mexican guy hold the keys is because I don't want his head to get too big and if he has all the keys he'll know he can raise his prices. He's my go to guy but he can't know it. Next the realtor finds a few potential renters and I run the back ground checks and check their rental applications. Then I pick the best one and she gets the paperwork done. All payments are through Cozy, that's the only way I take payments.
If your time is worth less than your maintenance mans then you should probably get houses close so you can go fix the toilets. For me that never happened anyway and wasn't going to anyway. I suspect if I file an eviction, which I can do online now, I will eventually have to fly into Dallas.
I worked hard for my money and still do a little bit, part time. Not having a property management company is the easiest money I've ever made. I'm retired, I like 4 wheeling, mountain biking and frequent trips to the sand dunes, Dallas doesn't have that.
i have four contacts in my phone; my vato, my realtor, my granite guy and my lawn guy.
- Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine, Do you realized US have 50 states? If your local REI is not for you, there are options, and they provide distance business I guess, too.
- Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
Depends on Asset class. A type, sure you can. C type, I wouldnt even try. I manage my A class town home in California from 8000 miles away. My C class Indy property, you couldn't pay me enough to do what my PM does for me.
- Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2019 · 203 posts · 119 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine I used to have some properties in South Bend. I live in Chicago. It's 2 hours away. We initially had a property manager but it didn't work out. Truthfully, it was a pain self managing properties remotely. We ended up evicting afew tenants because they lost their job in the financial crisis. People do it. I don't. The problems get magnified because you are not close enough to just go over and fix them.
- Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 16 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine, if there is a local group that meets, get involved with them. Mine wasn't doing remote session until recent due to covid-19. Now that they are, I think they'll continue doing so.
Great for networking. Great for leaning from their experiences or using as a sounding board.
- Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Jeff Alwine - I'm doing it,
- I self shows on empty units using a lockbox system and text notifications
- self walk through inspections (I e-mail them the sheet and request they return it filled out with supporting pictures and video)
- Move out inspections require a physical presence, so we request they take TONS of pictures and video. We also require they disinfect the place as they leave. We then send someone on our team to do the same process and immediately contact the tenant with any damage we find to confirm it
- Our rehabs are still moving along, but it's tricky when the unit is inhabited. We make everyone wear masks and gloves. We also require they inhabit a different room while we're working.
It's not the most ideal way to run the business, but it's working just fine.
***I must note though, I have an exceptional team. I couldn't do it without them***
- Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 35 votes6y
@Jeff Alwine It depends on the quality of the tenants, I self manage my properties in Maryland and I am in Houston. It is challenging but possible, you have to be a sophisticated Landlord to be successful, kind but 100 percent professional, you have to have deep understanding of boundary and still be compassionate.
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