Adding More Children after Lease is Signed

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Adding More Children after Lease is Signed

Nicole Clemens
Residential Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 33 votes

On June 10th aka last week, I secured a new tenant for my really nice, 3bdrm house in a B+ neighborhood.  She is a woman in her late 50s/early 60s who has (long term, temporary) custody of her 3 grandchildren (ages 14, 12 and 9).  She receives money through the state for the children.  Everything checked out when I first met her....good credit, clean background, no evictions, etc.  She seemed like a nice person and a good fit.  I received a deposit from her and everything seemed to be going smoothly until about 2 days before she moved in when she had made a few statements that seemed odd but nothing too alarming.  i.e.  Her son is a roofer.  I asked for his number to get a few estimates from him.  She hesitated to give it to me and then told me that she 'didn't really want him to know yet that she was moving in'.   

Anyhow, the day she moved in, I stopped down to drop of few things off to her and I noticed that there were about 8 people in the house (4 woman and 4 kids).  All of the kids were 6 and under so they weren't any of the kids that she named on the lease.  Those kids were not there.  I went into the master bedroom and there were 3 beds in that room.  It looked like a bedroom for small children as it was decorated very princess-y (again, the listed minor occupants ages were 14, 12 and 9).  I didn't say anything because for all I knew they were just there helping her on moving day.  

Fast forward to 2 days after she moved in.....she calls me and tells me that the state wants her to take in 2 more of her grandkids or else they are going to be put into foster care.  She sounds like she's fake crying on the phone.  Then when I question her she starts stuttering and fumbling her words.  I asked her the names and ages of the 2 additional kids (her grandkids)....she says she doesn't remember which ones (what?!)....then I ask her which ones are already living with her and she kept stuttering and literally could not come up with their names.  

Clearly Im being scammed.   Im just not sure exactly what she is trying to pull.  

My question is:  Do I have the right to reject the additional kids?  I might not do that under normal circumstances but in this situation I definitely feel that she has lied to me and trying to get over on me.  My lease states that I can charge $100 per person for anyone not named on the lease.  

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Mike McCarthy
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Nicole Clemens definitely sounds like some kind of scam going on. But this is one of those cases that I’d reach out to an attorney about. I think you need to give her notice of lease violation, but I’d tread lightly because you don’t want to discriminate against children in the house and open yourself up to potential issues.

Phila has zoning laws that prohibit more than 3 unrelated people lining in the house. If they are legally her children/grand children, they would be acceptable, but likely not otherwise.

Good luck... I’ll be curious to hear how this plays out.

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  • Sam L.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Joliet, IL · Member since 2014 · 163 posts · 85 votes
    6y

    Is she running a daycare? Is she retired? Does she work?

    1Reply
  • Mike McCarthy
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Nicole Clemens definitely sounds like some kind of scam going on. But this is one of those cases that I’d reach out to an attorney about. I think you need to give her notice of lease violation, but I’d tread lightly because you don’t want to discriminate against children in the house and open yourself up to potential issues.

    Phila has zoning laws that prohibit more than 3 unrelated people lining in the house. If they are legally her children/grand children, they would be acceptable, but likely not otherwise.

    Good luck... I’ll be curious to hear how this plays out.

    2Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    As mentioned, you really need to run this by an attorney. The last thing you want to do is something that the state views as discrimination against children. 

    Your $100/person may or may not be actionable. Some places view children as 0 people. Therefore, adding one adult violates the lease, but adding 100 children does not. 

    If she has legal custody, there is likely nothing that you can do. Even if she is running a daycare, there may be nothing that you can do. Certain areas allow daycares even if the landlord says no. 

    And while it is too late now, it is always a good idea to get the names and DoB of everyone living there and put that info in the lease. 

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  • Nicole Clemens
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Sam L. She's not running a daycare.  From what I know, her stepdaughter lost custody of her 8 kids :-\ and she's been caring for 3 of them.  Those are the 3 that I knew about and had added as occupants to the lease.  But then 2 days after she moved in, she said that she was taking in 2 more.  Im imagining she already had custody of 5 of them but didn't want to tell me up front so she decided to wait until after the fact and make it like it just came about.  She receives money from the state per child and she also cleans houses.  

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  • Nicole Clemens
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Greg M. I did get the names and ages of the 3 children that she claimed.  So if she brings in 2 more children, I have documentation that they were not originally mentioned.  

    If she ends up being a good paying tenant and takes care of the house then I would have no issue but given that we're only 2 days into the lease, I dont know what type of tenant she is.  I dont want to agree to it and then those 5 kids end up destroying the house and even worse she doesn't pay her rent.  

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  • Percy Matsunaga
    Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 282 posts · 85 votes
    6y

    @Nicole Clemens

    I think what you can do is make an addendum to the lease and add the 2 kids with an additional charge of $$. 
    let the tenant know you are trying to help her by legallly having the kids be at the property. 
    If not, sometime in the future this may get out of control. 

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  • Peter Anderson
    Real Estate Broker · Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    In our area there are overcrowding limitations preventing too many people in one apartment. 2 per bedroom. 6 max for a three bedroom. That's always my benchmark on the max and you're right to be concerned if the terms of your agreement have changed so quickly. 

    From an ownership perspective, you have the right to approve who lives in the home. If a tenant falsifies or omits information on their application and/or does not seek/receive written approval for all occupants to reside at the premises, we consider it a breach of our application and lease contract. This is followed by a kappa notice and notice to quit possession if necessary. 

    To make a case for denial here, you're going to need solid application procedures documented, along with their application and good written communication of what you approved and how to allow the tenant to reasonably request (not necessarily approve) residency for the additional two children. I don't recommend preemptively denying without giving the family members a reasonable chance to apply. Once they apply and if you still wish to deny, you should be prepared to substantiate your reasoning on the basis of a false application and certainly not because they are children. I would also speak with the case worker from the State to get a clear picture on the overall circumstances. In my opinion, you have a business decision to make on how hard you defend the fort. 

    Best of luck. 

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    The chances of her turning out to be an excellent tenant are zero. It’s day 2 and there’s already drama. Prepare for the worst, I would explore all options. That is, unless you’re fond of playing dr Phil.

    1Reply
  • Kareem Heshmat
    Property Manager · Houston, TX · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    Negative. You're being taken for a ride.

    0Reply
  • Karen F.
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    6y

    My limit is 2 occupants per bedroom, because any more than that is overcrowding.  I have the names and ages of all occupants on the lease - I tell the tenant that I need to know who is living in the unit, in case some thing happens (like, God forbid, a fire).  Of course, the people who are 18 and over all sign the lease (since I'm gonna have to evict them, if they don't pay, so they might as well be legally on the hook for the rent), but of course, the children do not sign.  The only people who are allowed to live in the unit are those who are on the lease.

    I would give her by text 24 hrs notice of inspection for whatever excuse you can come up with, and get in there and inspect, pronto.  Take pix with your cell phone of every room, all the beds in there.  Then leave.  Later that day, or the next one, assuming that you see more than 4 beds in that house, give her a notice to quit for lease violation for having brought in occupants who are not on the lease - name them as Jane Does 1,2,3,4, and John Does too if you think that there are males in there who don't belong.  Name at least one John Doe, to cover the possibility that any adult male is living there.   It's not your problem to ascertain whether or not the people using the beds are adults or children - more than 4 beds, there are clearly more than 4 occupants, in violation of the lease.   AFTER the notice to quit for lease violation (or notice to cure or however it's done in PA) has been served, have communication with her, only via text or email, never again orally, that you rented that house to 4 occupants, and that she is in violation.  Then offer her deposit back in full to move out immediately, give it to her as soon as she's out and has signed a letter saying that she gives up all claim to the unit, and you've changed the locks, and count your blessings that you moved on this so quickly and got out of it so easily.  You will have dodged a bullet.

    A nice house in a B+ neighborhood to a woman who is raising some of her stepdaughter's EIGHT children who were all taken by the State, who doesn't want her son to know where she lives, whose source of income is aid from the State?  Is there something about this neighborhood that would warrant taking such a marginal tenant for such a nice house?

    In any event, you really need to get rid of this woman ASAP, before the many children there destroy the house.  An extra $200/month for the extra two grandchildren is irrelevant if she already has 4 related women and 8 related children living there - it sounds as if she does.

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