Is rejecting 3 tenants a discrimination in SF?

CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I have a situation that i would love some inputs for....

I have a 2/1 in SF and I have an application from 3 youngish late 20 professionals...I dont really want to rent to them because I prefer 2 occupants... But my PM told me if I reject them, it is going to be a discrimination...

Is it?

Thank you..

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Joseph CacciapagliaBusiness Member

Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Originally posted by @Diane G.:

Thank you to ALL of you for care to spend the time to share your thoughts...

I was not trying argue with anyone, just simply trying to get educated...

How are 3 people going to share 1 bathroom? Seriously?

Are you joking with the bathroom comment, or can you really not imagine 3 people sharing 1 bathroom? I grew up in a family of 6 in a 3 bed 1 bath home. I'm certainly not alone in this either. There are tons of 3/1 homes that are rented to families of 4+. We have several 4/1's here in San Antonio, and some very large families rent them. You have to realize that a lot of tenants can't afford to live they way that you might be able to.

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Matt M.
Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
@Diane G.
The three people obviously know there is only 1 bathroom. That’s their issue to work out, not yours to worry about.
8 Reply
Chris Rowland
Destin, FL · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 10 votes
6y
In college I lived with two friends for a while - one bathroom
If they’re guys - no problem for sure lol
0 Reply
Kevin Manz
HVAC Tech · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 223 votes
6y
I live in a 3/1 house. It must be a lady thing. My wife acts funny about having to share a bathroom with the 5 of us males.
0 Reply
Mark H.
Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 215 posts · 129 votes
6y
You could look at it this way. Three adults that you get to screen that supposedly all have jobs.
Or you get a couple in there who have a child that you don't get to screen whose only job is to see what trouble they can get into when the parents aren't watching.
0 Reply
Will Dixon
Accountant · Corte Madera, CA · Member since 2018 · 73 posts · 88 votes
6y
@Diane G.
Assuming we are reading the same posts here, I don’t understand how you are coming to the conclusion that it is NOT discrimination. Read this if you need further explanation that it is in fact discriminatory.
https://www.sfaa.org/Public/Magazine/02_2016/More_Isn_t_Merrier.aspx
I am not one to get into an argument with someone on BP, but I feel like this is a platform meant to educate. Whether that education be for making someone a better RE investor or a better landlord (they should go hand in hand). It gives me a sick feeling that you have challenged your PM’s knowledge about grounds for discrimination, asked for clarification here, and then drawn your own contrary inference that appears to be based on your own preconceived notions about habitability. I won’t say I agree with 100% of the tenant friendly laws that exist in CA, especially SF & LA, but they are the laws and they exist to protect tenants from what you appear to be doing right now. Do the right thing.
10 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Diane G.
How are 3 people going to share 1 bath? That's not even remotely a problem for some renters. I have 2 properties that are a 3/1 and both have 2 adults AND 3 kids living in them. You can't make your mind up for tenants on what is comfortable for them.
1 Reply
Steven Ko
Sunnyvale, CA · Member since 2018 · 191 posts · 178 votes
6y
@Diane G. Are you a social worker? God? Why are you so hung up on that fact that 3 people are sharing a bathroom. I grew up in Sunnyvale with my parents and we only had 1 bathroom. I don’t know what kind of house you live in but 1100 sqft for 3 people is PLENTY. Maybe if you let go of the fixation that 3 people sharing a bathroom is “a new low”, you can understand why it’s wrong.
5 Reply
John Clark
Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
"How are 3 people going to share 1 bathroom? Seriously?"
---------------------------------------
You must be quite the princess if you think 3 people cannot easily share a bathroom. My parents and three siblings (a total of six of us) shared one bathroom when I was growing up. Inconvenient? At times.
Look at the local government's laws for the number of square feet required per occupant. That is different from the number of people per bedroom. Also see if there is a requirement of one bedroom per person unless they are sleeping together. If they are planning on converting a living room into a bedroom, for example, you MAY have a reason to say "No." I don't know. Check your local laws.

But three to a bathroom? No problem.

2 Reply
Suzy Sevier
Rental Property Investor · Cambridge, UK · Member since 2020 · 123 posts · 64 votes
6y
Three to a bathroom seems totally reasonable. Two people could as easily create as much wear and tear as three people would.
1 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Will Dixon:
@Diane G.
Assuming we are reading the same posts here, I don’t understand how you are coming to the conclusion that it is NOT discrimination. Read this if you need further explanation that it is in fact discriminatory.
https://www.sfaa.org/Public/Ma... am not one to get into an argument with someone on BP, but I feel like this is a platform meant to educate. Whether that education be for making someone a better RE investor or a better landlord (they should go hand in hand). It gives me a sick feeling that you have challenged your PM’s knowledge about grounds for discrimination, asked for clarification here, and then drawn your own contrary inference that appears to be based on your own preconceived notions about habitability. I won’t say I agree with 100% of the tenant friendly laws that exist in CA, especially SF & LA, but they are the laws and they exist to protect tenants from what you appear to be doing right now. Do the right thing.

I read this link and digging into the code, it prevents a landlord from raising rents or evicting if people add additional occupants to an existing lease. It doesn't say limiting occupancy of non-related adults is discriminatory as a tenant screening practice.
The amendments are in section 6.15A which covers subletting and section 37.9 which covers eviction. In other words the text is in sections that apply to existing tenants.
You could argue the end effect is the same, because this person could just have two people apply and move the third person in later without recourse. But to say having occupancy limits on unrelated adults is not allowed per screening and is considered discrimination doesn't seem correct. Unrelated adults are not a protected class federally and it doesn't appear locally in San Francisco. If they were a protected class, it would be listed as such. I listed the protected classes from the ordinance in an earlier post.
Personally I would just rent to the three roommates, because it is San Francisco. The anti-landlord hate there is so great that I would be afraid to deny anyone for any reason. It is sad that a landlord doesn't have the right to limit wear and tear on their property. Theoretically by San Francisco occupancy standards there could be 5 adults in that apartment.
2 Reply
Keith W.
Member since 2020 · 23 posts · 5 votes
6y
@Diane G.
Things got tight for the family once, so I had to take on a roommate. We all squeezed into a 2/1, 680 sqft. My point is that it can def work. Seems like anything can be considered discriminatory these days, but they would have to see it that way, and put in the work to follow through with the claim. On top of which, if they did, and were successful, how would your LL-tenant relationship be. Just something to think about. All the best!
0 Reply
Danny Mak
Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2020 · 54 posts · 17 votes
6y
Lol.... No offense, @Diane G. but you sound out of touch. The wear & tear is subjective because you could pick two tenants that absolutely destroy your place versus three tenants that keep it tidy. I think other people have better answers on if this could be discrimination, but my point is you can have three people share one bath.

I am a young professional that moved out to Boston out of college for work. I wanted to save money on rent. I lived in a 3 bedroom/1 bath with my roommates (three people total). Wow... yes... we shared ONE bathroom. It was never a problem and yes, we kept it tidy and clean.

Better than the projects I grew up in as a kid when my family of four shared one bathroom and struggled to pay the bills.
1 Reply
Diane G.
OP
CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Joe Splitrock, @Keith W. - Thank you for your posts.. I think my PM said the exactly same as you two are saying here... While there is no law that says this is discriminatory, ANYTHING can be turned into a discriminatory argument these days.....
My reason for not wanting this group of 3, again, is excessive wear and tear...I guess one can argue that is not necessarily the case, but I just rather avoid that potential.....
1 Reply
Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Joe Splitrock
I haven’t made it through all the comments, but you’re the first one that’s actually answered her question! California is funny, but I see a lot of the “BP Non-Lawyers” yelling discrimination many times when it simply is not.
I would suspect based upon your research that she is fine saying no to them. Even the PM cannot give her a legal reason to not rent to them.
While I’m not in California, I raise the rent for 3 roommates situation. Not illegal. And not discrimination against a protected class.
3 Reply
Diane G.
OP
CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Will Dixon - Thank you for the link and I did spend time to read the entire thing...
But you got too emotional than called for, if I am allowed TBH... Lol...
This link talks about adding occupant after the lease, but not during the screening stage, just as Joe mentioned.....
3 Reply
Diane G.
OP
CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Anthony Wick, @Joe Splitrock - I chuckled when I read "you are the first one that answered her question".... Lol
1 Reply
Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Diane G.
I have no idea why people are arguing, judging, and trying to talk you into these tenants. You asked a simple legal question, and only 1 person actually addressed that for you (Joe S.).
And somebody is chastising your for challenging your PM?! What?! Absolutely challenge your PM if you have a question. And it appears your PM isn’t even able to answer your question.
If you do not want three unrelated adults living in your 2/1, and there is no legal violation for denying them, deny them! It is your property. Abide by laws, but don’t rent to people you don’t want to.
5 Reply
Michael Robbins
Property Manager · Henderson, NV · Member since 2018 · 501 posts · 317 votes
6y
@Diane G.concerning number of occupants in a home and discrimination it is best (in my opinion) to look at the HUD guidelines. If I recall correctly, HUD guidelines have it as two people per bedroom plus one. I do not believe they say anything about bathrooms.
0 Reply
Damaso Bautista
Rental Property Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2018 · 655 posts · 900 votes
6y
@Diane G.
Funny comment lol 😂
Much of society lives in a residence with only 1 bathroom and more than 3 people living in it.
For most people a second bathroom is a luxury.
I find your comment to be naive.
1 Reply
Chinmay J.
Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Diane G.:
Thank you to ALL of you for care to spend the time to share your thoughts...
I was not trying argue with anyone, just simply trying to get educated...
How are 3 people going to share 1 bathroom? Seriously?

At the same time, or one after another...

I used to think up until this point that you are actually a smart person, but I do have to rethink my stance.

2 Reply
Diane G.
OP
CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Well, I asked 1 simple legal question, and got 1 relevant answer and 50+ opinions back... Lol

If you have 3 people, all working an office job and all have to get into office during this 8-9AM in the morning, competing for 1 bathroom IS hard..I have personally shared 1 bathroom with 1 roommate before and it was hard during the rush hours...period...
So, while some folks clearly got offended by my 1 bathroom comment, I was simply stating a fact... End of explaining myself on this subject... that is it....whether you like it or not...
But I appreciate those that care to spend the time to research the legal subject and provide knowledge/information.
3 Reply
Will Dixon
Accountant · Corte Madera, CA · Member since 2018 · 73 posts · 88 votes
6y
@Joe Splitrock
While 37.10 does not explicitly state number of occupants I would be shocked if a court did not find this to be discrimination. Does “I have a two bedroom apartment and I will not allow more than two occupants in it,” sound like discrimination to you? Play out some different scenarios of what would be considered OK in OP’s eyes and then the holes start to appear.
Neither you nor I are attorneys, but if OP wants the facts it would probably be advisable to call one.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Lender · Milpitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 376 posts · 248 votes
6y
Hey @Diane G., to echo some comments here, most of us aren't attorneys and are probably assuming how things would play out. Would you like me to connect you with a real estate attorney who can answer your question definitively?
0 Reply
Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Will Dixon
What part is discrimination? Which code of law would she be violating? I think most people here assume discrimination is when you treat two people differently. That may be a definition, but it is not the definition the law provides for a code violation. It is why the law specifically lays out who you cannot discriminate against, and on what basis. If it is not specific in the code of law, it is not discrimination in the eyes of the law.
2 Reply
Bridget Krause
Member since 2019 · 20 posts · 17 votes
6y
@Diane G.
When in doubt, contact your lawyer for issues like this. Every state has its own laws which have some gray area and can be explained by your lawyer, or maybe there isn't any gray area at all. Everyone is going to have an opinion, but opinions from BP won't matter when you are in court getting sued. This is not a BP question, it's a lawyer question.
I had a possible tenant a few years ago apply for one of my houses. Everything on paper looked good. When I showed her the house, she told me her kids had been taken away by Child Protective Services. My first thought was, if she's not taking care of her kids, she definitely isn't going to take care of my property. I did not know if this was a legitimate reason to deny someone. So, I picked up the phone and called my lawyer.
Your lawyer isn't going to charge you for a 2 minute phone call. I would rather have a clear understanding and be safe in my decision rather than be sorry with a fine, lawyer fees, and court cost.
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