Should I evict this tenant

Al Bunch

Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 128 posts · 27 votes

13y

I'm almost completely out of owner financing mobile homes (Lonnie deals) and the excuses people come up with for late payments are nothing short of amazing. I can't count the times in the past 10 years that I've gotten a late payment excuse from someone wearing obviously brand new designer clothes, sporting a brand new smart phone or otherwise displaying some kind of behavior that was incongruous to their situation (new car, new tv, new bbq pit, daughter runs in and says she can't wait until they leave this weekend to go to six flags, "lost my job" but they're leaving the house freshly showered wearing their uniform....)

At the end of the day, you have to do what you can live with, but if you're asking for advice, my guess is you're looking for support for what you already know you have to do. Just based on what you said, it sounds like she's (successfully) buying time.

Business is business.

Nicole Gentry

New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 6 posts · 3 votes

13y

Greetings! Patrick L.,

I'm of the opinion that you are experiencing some level of discomfort in making a decision about your tenant situation. My suggestion is you hire a competent property management firm to manage your property. Of course it will be an expense for you. But consider the potential gains: relief, time and comfort.?!?!!!

Nicole

Lynn McGeein

Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

13y

I try and keep my business and charity donations separate. It doesn't always work, but there are too many tenants who will take complete advantage of you if they sense a weakness. If I were to let her stay (you had to mention the kids), it would probably only be after speaking directly to her supervisor. Lots of companies withhold the first paycheck, so she might be telling the truth but actually might have to wait 2 more weeks for her first paycheck.

3 Reply

Sam W.

Investor · Northeast, OH · Member since 2012 · 239 posts · 106 votes

13y

Patrick L.

I'd call her employer to see if the delay in her paycheck is truly the case.

I'm more inclined to work with tenants than most. If there is a way to let her stay (while verifing the circumstances regarding the delay in rent), I would let her stay and work out a payment plan.

I understand it is "a business", but sometimes we all need a helping hand.

4 Reply

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Dawn A. She said she doesn't have any family here so there's nobody to borrow that much from or apparently even to give her a place to stay. Not sure if a payday loan is possible because she doesn't have any paychecks from the last month.

Al Bunch I'm not sure that I'm looking for support for what I'm already thinking as much as I'm just looking to see how others would handle the situation. At the end of the day I have to do what I'm comfortable with Yes, she has already bought some time but she has been there for 10 months with a decent track record up until now. That alone generally buys a little bit of time from me, although not this long without a partial payment.

Lynn M. & Sam W. I will ask her and see if she's willing to provide a phone number for her supervisor. If I can get a hold of someone that can confirm her situation then I'd probably let it go a little bit longer. If she can't provide that then shame on me for letting it go this long already.

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Dawn AnastasiPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes

13y

I'm glad those posts were removed. That was uncalled for.

Marcy Albrecht

Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2013 · 18 posts · 4 votes

13y

Definitely call her supervisor. But also ask him/her what her pay is. If she would be a new tenant, you would verify income. This will let you know if she can still afford your rent payments. And what the future holds in terms of income.

Jon Holdman

Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes

13y

This is a tough situation. I've been there several times. I do try to work with a tenant when they're having a tough time. But I do make it stick. If we have a discussion and agree on a date, I expect the money on that date. If that date comes and the tenant still can't pay, that's a very bad sign in my experience. I've never had that result in money being handed over, and have had it result in the tenant bailing. In other cases, we discussed a date, made it clear late fees were involved, too, and I did get the money on the agreed upon date. And I have had a conversation with a supervisor, or at least someone who said they were a supervisor.

Have you been there and had a look? If not, I would do that right away. That's often a good clue something's up.

In this situation, I also discuss the future. Its now the 25th of April. Even if a paycheck does suddenly appear, May rent is due next month. Is she going to have May rent?

You don't get free groceries at the store because your paycheck hasn't been deposited. You don't get free gas at the filling station, either. But somehow free rent is expected.

Nicole Gentry, a PM is an option. A very expensive one. Patrick L. implies he has $25K in rents per month. A PM would be taking $2,500 a month, maybe less with a big portfolio like this. But certain a grand or more. I'll put up with some discomfort for a grand or more a month.

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Jon Holdman I actually went by there yesterday afternoon. No signs of her splitting on me yet, everything looked normal inside from what I saw through the window by the front door. Power was still on, that's something I always check when people are behind on rent. Local power company will have a white tag on the meter if the power is in, a blue tag if the account holder requested it be shut off and a red tag when it's shut off for non-payment so that makes it pretty easy when inspecting properties.

I have discussed catching back up previously and she told me her take home is right around $700 every 2 weeks and she'd be able to pay $500/check. So that would make her late in May but back on track June 1st and going forward. She doesn't have a car and takes the bus to work, I pay the water for the apartments, and she gets food stamps. Her only other bills would be the power bill (pretty low on a 500 sqft apartment) and her cell phone.

I really don't feel the need to pay a PM. I have ~$30k in gross monthly rents and don't feel the need to pay a property manager a minimum of 8% of that. I don't think anyone is going to do a better job at it than I do plus I have a full time handyman that spends most of his time working on rehabbing my new projects but he also handles all service calls from my existing tenants. Tenants call him not me at midnight because their toilet is clogged. All of my rentals are local to me, I don't have a 9-5 job and I have someone to handle all of their maintenance issues so all I'm left with is tenant screening, rent collections and evictions. Those generally take me 10-15 hours a month.

Sam W.

Investor · Northeast, OH · Member since 2012 · 239 posts · 106 votes

13y

Of course, regardless of the internal metric you use in deciding whether to proceed with eviction or not, in most jurisdictions, if you accept partial payment once you have begun the process your case will be dismissed (if the eviction was for non-payment of rent).

In other words, once you begin the process, you should only accept payments that are all or nothing.

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Originally posted by Sam W.:

Of course, regardless of the internal metric you use in deciding whether to proceed with eviction or not, in most jurisdictions, if you accept partial payment once you have begun the process your case will be dismissed (if the eviction was for non-payment of rent).

In other words, once you begin the process, you should only accept payments that are all or nothing.

Once I file the eviction I will only accept full payment including court costs, process server fees and late fees. Nobody has ever offered me a full payment after the eviction was filed. Before I file an eviction I do accept partial payments (even if a 3 day notice has been served) provided it is worth accepting. If the tenant is behind $1000 and wants to pay me $500 I will generally accept that. I will then reissue a new 3 day notice for the new amount owed, setting the process back about 4 business days. A 3 day notice doesn't cost me anything but a few minutes of my time.

Andrea M.

Real Estate Investor · Hampton, VA · Member since 2012 · 562 posts · 109 votes

13y

Currently in a similar situation with a tenant that has been my tenant for over 2 years..in the past I have worked with her and she has been a woman of her word..this month no rent, every week she tells me that she will have all of the rent next week..well needless to say..she hasn't paid April rent Evicition paperwork filed-court date May 14th) with May being next week, our thought is if she hasn't paid April..she isn't gonna pay May, unless she can pull a miracle.

Sam W.

Investor · Northeast, OH · Member since 2012 · 239 posts · 106 votes

13y

Andrea M. - There must be something in the air. Similarly, I just started an eviction (my first ever) with a long-standing, excellent tenant. Two + years of no issues then suddenly he disappears off the face of the earth. Finally track him down to a neighboring town.

Doesn't return calls and when he does promises to pay in a week, then the following week. You get the idea. Because of his excellent record as a tenant I was willing to be patient. That was last month. Now he has not communicated in several weeks. Sadly, had to begin eviction last week.

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

13y

Andrea M. and Sam W. - they aren't paying you because they are saving their rent to have security deposit and first month's rent for their next place :)

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Originally posted by Steve Babiak:

Andrea M. and Sam W. - they aren't paying you because they are saving their rent to have security deposit and first month's rent for their next place :)

Whenever a tenant starts trying to buy time when it's getting close to the 1st of the month that's usually what I assume.

Jamaal Hunt

Wholesaler · Brooklandville, MD · Member since 2013 · 149 posts · 29 votes

13y

"No family?"

What about the children's father?

7/10 times that story of no family is crap. I mean yes times are rough but there bound to be someone the money can be borrowed from. That how it works. It looks like starting the eviction process is the only way. From what I told there is way to make things clear.

1099 c cancellation of debt

Mike Franco

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes

13y

Based on your story, I would work with her.

She seems to understand the impact of an eviction.

If she can't come up with the $500, I would take a partial payment for whatever she has in her bank account.

The eviction will cost you more than the $500.

Hell, sometimes I feel compelled to review their finances with them and see where they can cut expenses, just so I can get my rent easier.

I have had tenants who shouldn't be subscribing to cable or direcTV or full blown cell phone plans. They could save so much and pay the rent with that.

Jon Holdman

Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes

13y

I am not going to review my tenants finances. I'm selling them a place to live, not financial planning advice. That's just getting too deeply involved in their lives.

Its funny, isn't it. Some tenants are great tenants right up to the moment they're not. Its like someone flips a switch and suddenly they're a problem.

4 Reply

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Jamaal Hunt I don't know where the children's father is. She made no mention of child support on her rental application and I don't see any support orders in the public records. Beyond that her personal life isn't my business.

Jon Holdman I have no interest in getting into her financial issues either. Most tenants aren't great with money and I'm in no position to change that. The best I do for them is make sure all of my rentals are as energy efficient as possible to keep their power bills down. I have mostly older single family homes and here in FL the power bills can get really hard on people in the summer running the A/C ($300+ vs <$100 in the winter). I'd like to get my rent every month but I can't plan all of their finances. I do tell them that if they want to mail me money weekly or every other week when they get paid I'm happy to keep track of it for them if they can't save it until the 1st but that's about as far as I go.

Dyna J.

Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 105 posts · 31 votes

13y

If what the tenant says is true then she qualifies for many rental assistance programs. She might not even know they exist so its critical that she applies as soon as possible.

And jamaal you're dead wrong regarding the "no family to help" issue. People who come from loving families always assume that others do to. That is just not the case.

OP

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

13y

Dyna J. I have a list of the local government programs and charitable organizations that provide temporary rent assistance that I give to any of my tenants that are behind on their rent. Unfortunately over the last year they have pretty much run out of money and none of my tenants have had any luck with them. I've had churches that my tenants already had a connection with provide temporary help but that was about it.

Jon K.

Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes

13y

Call the employer. See if she really has a job and why she hasn't been paid.

Employers can't just not pay their employees. Not legally, at least.

Can you request bank statements to see if that really hasn't been deposited? Or talk to employer?

Don't accept partial payments!!!

I don't like that she asks for a contract saying she'll pay you by a certain date.

Um, she has such a contract... it's called a LEASE.

She had a contract. It's April 26 and her rent was due April 1. You've already been more than understanding. I would've given eviction notice on April 5.

I wouldn't let her string this along. An employer can't just wait a week more to pay their employee. And, I wouldn't accept partial payments if I was you.

Can a landlord there even accept a move out date and take back the property, or are evictions always required for you to take legal ownership back of the place?

It's April 26. Her rent was due April 1. She said she would be paid April 19 and pay you then. She still hasn't and now she wants more time. Why? She's gotten a free month out of you. She hasn't paid yet... if she voluntarily leaves, what makes us think she'll pay you back then? She said she would pay by April 19... she still hasn't. What makes us think she'll pay?

I hate to say it, but I would be inclined to evict. She's already a week late from the date she told you she would be paid. To me, that makes me think she's stalling and playing on pity to string this along. Whether or not she has family or her check was delayed or her finances could be changed isn't your problem. If her employer hasn't paid her, she needs to find her own recourse towards her employer. If she has zero income and has 2 kids, it sounds as if she would qualify for entitlement programs like section 8. Maybe I'm just harsh or maybe I assume tenants give too many excuses. I wouldn't want to accept partial payments or write some contract that she says she will work with you with (um, she had one... it was called a lease! She didn't follow through what that one, either). I would be reluctant to keep waiting and losing more money. You gave her time already and she still hasn't paid.

It's very sad that she has kids, but... it's a business. She's taking your services without paying for them. You've given her time and been patient but she still hasn't paid. I find it hard to believe that she was supposed to be paid by April 19 and her employer still hasn't paid her. In my area, employers could get in a lot of trouble if they don't pay employees on time. I find the tenants story about still not being paid a week later a little hard to believe-- certainly possible, but.... she's lived there all month free. How will she ever catch up on rent?

I would call the employer before eviction and see if the story is out. Even then, if you don't see money in the next few days (a week, tops), I would proceed with eviction. You're out one month's rent already. I wouldn't want to be out more than 2 months rent. She said you would be paid April 19, a week ago. Since you haven't' been, either there really was a payroll glitch or she's screwing you over. I definitely would not wait to evict more than another week or two. She hasn't paid all month and already missed the payment deadline she promised you before.

Jon K.

Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes

13y

Originally posted by Patrick L.:

Originally posted by Steve Babiak:

Andrea M. and Sam W. - they aren't paying you because they are saving their rent to have security deposit and first month's rent for their next place :)

Whenever a tenant starts trying to buy time when it's getting close to the 1st of the month that's usually what I assume.

That's what I would be inclined to think. Tenant here is behind $500. Why pay that when they could stall a little longer, move elsewhere, and skip out on that $500 payment?

I hope I'm wrong, and that tenant gets paid today and pays you.