Investor · Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2015 · 275 posts · 82 votes
Hello Bigger Pockets! I am experiencing my first vacancy and wanted to ask a question concerning the security deposit. The tenant really did a number on the place and I want to make sure I’m in my legal rights to keep the deposit for repairs? Now keep in mind this place was only rented for 1 year
Damages and estimated cost of repair:
Walls / Cabinets covered in magic markers(over 75 different places with multi colored magic markers and crayons throughout house and in cabinets) $1035.00( Estimate from my painter)
Stained vanity sink with red hair dye 50.00
Broken shower curtain rod for claw foot tub 54.00
Garbage removal from under appliances and in heating vents(packed with garbage) 25.00
Dog damage to paint on door 25.00
Stuffed food in electrical outlet 5.00
Damaged heating vents x 2 30.00
Ripped/slashed/painted stools 25.00
Missing toilet paper holder 3.00
Non cleaned over 10.00
Re paint kitchen island (Market Damage) 50.00
Rusted appliances from slime sitting on them for a year- 50.00
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston
Any time I use a deposit for repairs I hire out there work so that I have receipts to back up my charges. Also, why would I donate my family time by doing the labor myself to a tenant that trashed my place? I’m handy too, but nah. Hire it out for peace of mind and speed.
Property Manager · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 205 posts · 162 votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston I want to say yes to your concern, but it's all going to depend on the lease that they signed initially. If you covered in it that any damages done to the property would come out of their deposit, and on top of that you can provide them an itemized list of what needs to be repaired with specific costs, then you're good. They may not be happy about it, but again, they should've read the lease which stated the consequences for damaged property.
I'll also throw out there that it sounds like you are a little angry with this person. Understandably so, but don't allow your anger to drive up the cost of the repairs just to stick it to them. Keep it fair and honest and you'll end up okay. Overall, it sounds like an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry that you have to do all these repairs now. Thankfully they're gone now!
Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2020 · 471 posts · 462 votes
5y
How much is the security deposit? Being completely neglectful and borderline destructive is not "normal wear and tear" in my book. I have had tenants tear up a place, and knowing they would not be getting a security deposit back, run off with my window A/C unit!
Were they thinking they could cook the food by stuffing it in the outlet??? Geeze..
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
5y
Do you have an inspection report at move in? What does your lease say. Pretty much all of the items from your list are not normal wear and tear but willful tenant damage, and really bad. Some of the items will cost more to remedy than you have indicated. I am surprised these tenants were even approved for a property with granite counters. I hope you have a sizable security deposit.
Investor · Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2015 · 275 posts · 82 votes
5y
@Andy Eakes thanks fore the reply, I was initially upset but I’m honestly just happy they left and I didn’t have to evict. The security deposit is 1500.00. I am also very handy and I can remedy most of the damage myself, can I charge for it if I repair it myself?
Investor · Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2015 · 275 posts · 82 votes
5y
@Bjorn Ahlblad
Thanks for the reply, the lease states that any damage other than normal wear and tear will come out of the security deposit, they passed all my rental criteria but To be honestly it was my first property and I was to eager to get it filled, they never missed a payment but really messed up the place. I am pretty handy and can handle most of it by myself, my question is if remedy it myself can I still charge a “fair” amount for my labor and if I can’t fix the damage(stained granite) can I still charge for damage?
Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2020 · 471 posts · 462 votes
5y
As Andy said, you just want to make sure you are justified in case they decide to dispute it in small claims court, the judge likes to see documents and so make sure you can back yourself up on the signed lease and that the itemized list equals the security deposit (it sounds like it may exceed it).
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston To the best of my knowledge you can't charge for work you do yourself since you are required to provide an itemized list of the charges to your tenant along with any refund as appropriate. Additionally you will be asked to provide receipts in case of an audit. Maybe others will have a different response. All the best!
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
so..... for some of this it will be ok to charge to say replace the toilet paper holder if you are doing the work yourself just charge for the price of the item..... - for other stuff - like for the magic marker - try using alcohol, a magic eraser or use a magic marker over it and see if it will dissolve it. I think you will have a hard time with repainting all cabs..... but you can charge for cleaning..... i also suggest you read very carefully any information about security deposits in your locale... be sure you dont charge for say - replacing 10 year old carpet (its pasts its useful life and therefore has no value)
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
also, see if you have in your area a service that can repair surfaces like counters, tubs, floors etc... they should be able to repair the counter for a nominal fee
The stained LVP and chipped granite might be normal wear and tear. The rest is not. As Mary said magic eraser is really good and cleans a lot of stuff. You can try the alcohol (70-90% rubbing alcohol) on the marker, just test and area on the paint first in an area that isn't visible.
I'd hire out some of the cleaning as that is easy to bill them for. And you can charge for any items you have to replace and supplies.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston
Any time I use a deposit for repairs I hire out there work so that I have receipts to back up my charges. Also, why would I donate my family time by doing the labor myself to a tenant that trashed my place? I’m handy too, but nah. Hire it out for peace of mind and speed.
@John Matthew Johnston. John charge them for everything you feel was not in a similar condition to when you gave it to them, let them come back to you and negotiate each item. You have a nice itemized bill and the prices seem extremely fair. Make sure you take a lot of pictures.
Any time I use a deposit for repairs I hire out there work so that I have receipts to back up my charges. Also, why would I donate my family time by doing the labor myself to a tenant that trashed my place? I’m handy too, but nah. Hire it out for peace of mind and speed.
For the things I can do , I will ALWAYS do a better job. Plus I like to know exactly the condition of each of my rentals..... I cant know that by having someone else do the cleaning etc. This matters as it is MY money that is tied up in them, it is MY income that is reliant on them... etc. My rentals always rent for more than managed rentals.... because my ownership/care shows....
I feel you are justified but would likely charge triple what you have in most places. Chipped granite would flip my lid.
I agree the OP prices are way too low, except for possibly the painting. For a contractor to replace the TP is cost of part and time to purchase. The outlet replacement is a fraction of what insurance indicates it costs. I think I would be more than triple the OP’s prices.
John Mathew, how do you plan on repairing the granite chip for $10? How are you taking care of stain on LVP? Is it stained of just dirty. Stain would be well over $100.
Also as has been stated, hire the work out. The tenant is paying for it. It also does not permit scaling if you take in full tenant turn overs. I do plenty of tasks at our rentals. Even managing contractors is work. But doing normal wear and tear items that you cannot charge the tenant is a smarter use of your effort. As you scale, you will hire out more of the work. If for no other reason than you will not have the time to do all the repairs yourself.
Any time I use a deposit for repairs I hire out there work so that I have receipts to back up my charges. Also, why would I donate my family time by doing the labor myself to a tenant that trashed my place? I’m handy too, but nah. Hire it out for peace of mind and speed.
For the things I can do , I will ALWAYS do a better job. Plus I like to know exactly the condition of each of my rentals..... I cant know that by having someone else do the cleaning etc. This matters as it is MY money that is tied up in them, it is MY income that is reliant on them... etc. My rentals always rent for more than managed rentals.... because my ownership/care shows....
Whatever floats your boat. I didn't get into RE to clean other peoples bathrooms. I do my own carpentry, tile, etc. But when it comes to tenant turnovers I have some great painters and cleaners who get it done for me quickly and at a reasonable cost. I work another full time job and enjoy time with my family, so your strategy is not for me.
Specialist · DC Metro Area - MD · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 5 votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston
I agree with many of the comments above that the estimated prices are on the low side. Also, make sure you take pictures of all of the damage. Send the itemized list with price breakdowns, the pictures and the applicable section of the lease to your former tenant. I’d be surprised if they have the audacity to complain!
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
5y
Not normal wear and tear. A couple of points: In most states you can't charge for your own labor. If you do it yourself charge for the replacement part. Send them what is required in your state in the timeline required to document the damages/ security deposit deductions. If you can't get it fixed in time base your cost off the estimate. You have to eventually get a bill though. Make sure you take good pictures of damage. I don't print pictures. I will send a list of damages and email pictures if any complaints. Now if you are way over on damages and you know you are never getting the money back sure do some of it yourself just make sure you have bills up to the full charges you sent them. You can not charge for things that are fully depreciated like carpet or the full cost of an older appliance. You can charge for repairs though that are due to tenant misuse. Your costs are low. Having a handyman do replacement of LVP tile would be more then $10. As far as painting cabinets, try some cleaners first but if you have to paint it probably has to be significant visible damage. Food in the outlets-lucky their kids don't start sticking forks in them and get electrocuted.
There will be language for your jurisdiction likely similar to “reasonable and actual” for claims against deposit. Provide thorough proof of the claim. Pictures video receipts copy of cashed cheque’s etc. Likely a duty to mitigate losses as well.
Investor · Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2015 · 275 posts · 82 votes
5y
@Dan Heuschele
Thanks for the questions and advice. The two chips in the granite are on top of the granite and are about dim sized, the granite is dark so hard to see, I was hoping to find some kind of epoxy to fill them with and lightly sand and seal, the LVP had red drip stain( about 4) on it so I was basically charging for labor for some elbow grease or just the damage if I can’t get it out
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
5y
@John Matthew Johnston I am very conservative with what I charge tenants for damage and I think your estimates are conservative and legitimate. You can charge for your time at the fair rate for the work being done. In other words if you charged for cleaning, you can charge the average hourly cleaning rate in your area. If you are doing granite repair, you can charge the rate for that. Some landlords say "my time is worth $50 an hour" but when taking deductions your time is valued at the work being done. I encourage you to hire as much as you can, so you have receipts to substantiate the cost.
Documentation is the key:
1. Take before and after photos of work done.
2. Keep start and stop times for any work you do. The more precise the better.
3. Keep receipts of all work done.
4. Deduct only the cost of repairs and cleaning. You don't "keep the deposit" - you "deduct expenses". Whatever is left over they either get a check or a bill.
Some states require tenants to get copies of receipts on demand. I upload receipts and before/after photos to a share drive. If a tenant disputes, I let them look at the photos and receipts.
Be aware it is common for people to say "I will sue you if you don't give my money back". I have never had someone actually sue me, so most of those threats are empty threats.
One final caution on the crayon and marker. Paint doesn't stick to crayons and marker can be hard to cover. Make sure your painter is standing 100% behind their quote.
For the crayon / marker it’s the one final thing I’ll use oil primer on. Everything else gets Kilz Restorer (water based but right about as good as oil). Crayon especially bleeds through most any colour of paint even at coat #3.