Lease non-renewal tenant won't leave

Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes

I have a tenant who is a month to month tenant. She has not paid rent for two months and has cut off all communication with me so I have mailed her a non renewal notification.

My question is what are my options to get her out? Since she does not have a current lease agreement would she be trespassing? Or would I still have to evict?

Thanks!

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:

You asked for advice because your tenant didn't move out when her lease terminated, she hasn't paid rent for two months (heading into three?), and she's not communicating. You also mailed a "non renewal" which is not the correct process.

Sorry for misreading the situation.

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Lam N.
Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
5y
Evict. If your courts are still open, file eviction papers RIGHT NOW.
1 Reply
Frank Procopio
Real Estate Agent · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 298 posts · 268 votes
5y
She is a hold over tenant and that is the only eviction most have been able to get through right now with the moratorium. Once the time is lapsed on the notice have her served asap
3 Reply
Kyle J.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
5y
@Travis Frenchak She’s not trespassing since she’s your former tenant.

If she doesn’t leave voluntarily after receiving your notice of non-renewal and at the end of whatever month she’s supposed to be out, then as @Frank Procopio pointed out, at that point she’ll be considered a holdover tenant and you’ll need to proceed with an eviction.
Good luck.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y
The eviction moratorium is only for non-payment of rent. She's a "holdover" tenant, meaning her lease expired and she refuses to leave. You should start the eviction process immediately. I'm guessing you have no experience in that so you should consider hiring an experienced eviction attorney to handle it for you.
You may want to consider hiring a property manager. It's easy to manage rentals...until it's not.
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Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
The eviction moratorium is only for non-payment of rent. She's a "holdover" tenant, meaning her lease expired and she refuses to leave. You should start the eviction process immediately. I'm guessing you have no experience in that so you should consider hiring an experienced eviction attorney to handle it for you.
You may want to consider hiring a property manager. It's easy to manage rentals...until it's not.
I do fine managing my rentals as I have 15 but yes this is my first eviction. She is an inherited tenant so I really had no control over the situation. You may want to consider not questioning peoples abilities based on absolutely nothing.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:

You asked for advice because your tenant didn't move out when her lease terminated, she hasn't paid rent for two months (heading into three?), and she's not communicating. You also mailed a "non renewal" which is not the correct process.

Sorry for misreading the situation.

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Cole Simpson
Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2020 · 302 posts · 186 votes
5y
It would have to be an eviction. I would go to the property (if it is local) and see if you can find a solution. As defeating as it feels, cash for keys is always a good option.
1 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
5y
My guess is once you post the notice, she will leave. Having an eviction on her record won't help her find a new place. The sooner you can get her out the better. At least her deposit will cover some of the unpaid rent. I would also schedule a walk through of the unit-simply post a notice with the date and time and go in. As she's not communicating with you and not paying rent, you have no reason to assume she's still living there and you need to check on your home.
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Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:

You asked for advice because your tenant didn't move out when her lease terminated, she hasn't paid rent for two months (heading into three?), and she's not communicating. You also mailed a "non renewal" which is not the correct process.

Sorry for misreading the situation.

Why do you keep responding if its just going to be with sarcasm? I asked a specific question. I did not ask "do you think I should hire a property manager?". Your comment had no relevance to my post. This site is for people to further their knowledge. If a moderator is just going to tell people to hire a property manager everytime someone has a question what good is it?

4 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
My guess is once you post the notice, she will leave. Having an eviction on her record won't help her find a new place. The sooner you can get her out the better. At least her deposit will cover some of the unpaid rent. I would also schedule a walk through of the unit-simply post a notice with the date and time and go in. As she's not communicating with you and not paying rent, you have no reason to assume she's still living there and you need to check on your home.

Im hoping she feels the same way you do about the eviction. Unfortunately I know for a fact she is still living there.
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Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Cole Simpson:
It would have to be an eviction. I would go to the property (if it is local) and see if you can find a solution. As defeating as it feels, cash for keys is always a good option.

Cash for keys will be my next move before eviction. Ive tried everything to reach out to her but she refuses to communicate. I left her a message letting her know I'm sure we could work something out, still nothing.

0 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:

You asked for advice because your tenant didn't move out when her lease terminated, she hasn't paid rent for two months (heading into three?), and she's not communicating. You also mailed a "non renewal" which is not the correct process.

Sorry for misreading the situation.

If have something constructive to add please do. She has been mailed a certified letter requiring signature with 30 days notice informing her the lease will not be renewed. What about that is not the correct process?

0 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
My guess is once you post the notice, she will leave. Having an eviction on her record won't help her find a new place. The sooner you can get her out the better. At least her deposit will cover some of the unpaid rent. I would also schedule a walk through of the unit-simply post a notice with the date and time and go in. As she's not communicating with you and not paying rent, you have no reason to assume she's still living there and you need to check on your home.

Im hoping she feels the same way you do about the eviction. Unfortunately I know for a fact she is still living there.

I would still go ahead and do the inspection. If nothing else it shows that you are taking charge of the situation and she's not calling the shots (which is what she probably thinks). Give her an ultimatum and then proceed. It sucks, but it is better than you being taken advantage of.
0 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
@Theresa Harris it’s impossible to do an inspection if I don’t have permission. I can’t just walk into her unit. Unfortunately at this moment she is calling the shots.
1 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
@Theresa Harris it’s impossible to do an inspection if I don’t have permission. I can’t just walk into her unit. Unfortunately at this moment she is calling the shots.

I don't know where your property is, but in most places you can do an inspection with 24 hours' notice.
4 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
@Theresa Harris it’s impossible to do an inspection if I don’t have permission. I can’t just walk into her unit. Unfortunately at this moment she is calling the shots.

I don't know where your property is, but in most places you can do an inspection with 24 hours' notice.

yea I still don't think you can just walk in without consent. I feel that's a good way to get shot or bitten by a dog. Either way as a landlord I do not want to put myself in a he said she said or my landlord did this or my tenant did that situation.

0 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
@Theresa Harris it’s impossible to do an inspection if I don’t have permission. I can’t just walk into her unit. Unfortunately at this moment she is calling the shots.

I don't know where your property is, but in most places you can do an inspection with 24 hours' notice.
Now if its an emergency or a necessary repair you could enter as long as you do it correctly. You can't just enter someones home just because you own the building. If you do that with your properties I wish you the best of luck.

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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:
@Theresa Harris it’s impossible to do an inspection if I don’t have permission. I can’t just walk into her unit. Unfortunately at this moment she is calling the shots.

I don't know where your property is, but in most places you can do an inspection with 24 hours' notice.

yea I still don't think you can just walk in without consent. I feel that's a good way to get shot or bitten by a dog. Either way as a landlord I do not want to put myself in a he said she said or my landlord did this or my tenant did that situation.

I've only had to post notice once because a tenant wasn't responding to emails or calls (and they weren't paying their rent). I went in to check on the place after 1 month with no rent and no response. They ended up being evicted as soon as the ban was lifted. You are giving them notice and they can contact you if there is a problem. Most of my tenants are great and I have no problem with them. it is ultimately up to you what you are comfortable doing, but my guess this is going to continue for several more months. Respect works both ways with a tenant and landlord.

1 Reply
John MorganPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y
I went to court for my first eviction for non payment this year. It was super easy. My tenant didn’t even show up. Just make sure you post a 3 day pay or quit notice on their door or hand it to them. Good luck!
0 Reply
Mat O'Grady
Investor · North Stonington, CT · Member since 2014 · 393 posts · 228 votes
5y
@Travis Frenchak
In CT before the Covid, I averaged about 3 months from start to finish for an eviction, so I file a notice to quit as soon as possible. For CT, that is the 11th of the month. In a non-renewal situation, I give a date they need to be moved out on and if they aren't out by that date, the day after I have the state marshall serve the notice to quit and start the eviction process. I try to work things out with tenants before the legal date to start the eviction and give them chances with hard deadlines. If they don't meet them, I start the eviction and don't stop unless they are moved out. I don't make a deal with the mediator or do cash for keys. Although, the cash would be easier and better for my business, I feel as though I put in enough effort ahead of time and the people are usually uncooperative and deserve the eviction.
Also, in CT, we are allowed to do apartment inspections with a 24 hour notice, so if you want to make sure everything is OK, you could check the laws in PA to see if they are the same. If I knew I tenant was living there but just being jerks, I wouldn't want to get in there.

In short, start the eviction process for Lapse of Time. You may have issues doing an eviction for non-payment. Check the laws in PA and see if you need a state marshall to serve the paperwork. Find one and ask them about the circumstances and I am sure they can lead you in the right direction.
If this is your first one out of 15 tenants, that is pretty good!
Good luck!
1 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Mat O'Grady:
@Travis Frenchak
In CT before the Covid, I averaged about 3 months from start to finish for an eviction, so I file a notice to quit as soon as possible. For CT, that is the 11th of the month. In a non-renewal situation, I give a date they need to be moved out on and if they aren't out by that date, the day after I have the state marshall serve the notice to quit and start the eviction process. I try to work things out with tenants before the legal date to start the eviction and give them chances with hard deadlines. If they don't meet them, I start the eviction and don't stop unless they are moved out. I don't make a deal with the mediator or do cash for keys. Although, the cash would be easier and better for my business, I feel as though I put in enough effort ahead of time and the people are usually uncooperative and deserve the eviction.
Also, in CT, we are allowed to do apartment inspections with a 24 hour notice, so if you want to make sure everything is OK, you could check the laws in PA to see if they are the same. If I knew I tenant was living there but just being jerks, I wouldn't want to get in there.

In short, start the eviction process for Lapse of Time. You may have issues doing an eviction for non-payment. Check the laws in PA and see if you need a state marshall to serve the paperwork. Find one and ask them about the circumstances and I am sure they can lead you in the right direction.
If this is your first one out of 15 tenants, that is pretty good!
Good luck!

Yea because of COVID I don't think you can evict for non payment. Lucky for me she is month to month tenant so im hoping that works in my favor. Ive never had an issue with a tenant I have placed, im pretty picky. Unfortunately the prior landlord for this property wasn't as picky as I would be. In his defense he did tell me to get her out when I bought the place. I was planning on doing that this spring, looks like ill be doing it sooner.

0 Reply
Terrell Garren
Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
The eviction moratorium is only for non-payment of rent. She's a "holdover" tenant, meaning her lease expired and she refuses to leave. You should start the eviction process immediately. I'm guessing you have no experience in that so you should consider hiring an experienced eviction attorney to handle it for you.
You may want to consider hiring a property manager. It's easy to manage rentals...until it's not.

Just because he is asking a question does not mean he has no experience. The forum is precisely for questions and information sharing. Then come the standard, easy answers - hire an attorney and property manager. Good grief. I assume you would recommend a licensed builder to flip a circuit breaker.

1 Reply
Mat O'Grady
Investor · North Stonington, CT · Member since 2014 · 393 posts · 228 votes
5y
@Travis Frenchak
Yeah, I try to purchase property at a cost where I can afford to pay all the expenses even if no rent is coming in. Things happen to people so they could all be paying before I buy and then something could happen. It's unlikely that everyone will be skimping on rent, but it is a possibility, especially in our current eviction moratorium.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck!
0 Reply
Travis Frenchak
OP
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Mat O'Grady:
@Travis Frenchak
Yeah, I try to purchase property at a cost where I can afford to pay all the expenses even if no rent is coming in. Things happen to people so they could all be paying before I buy and then something could happen. It's unlikely that everyone will be skimping on rent, but it is a possibility, especially in our current eviction moratorium.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck!
Even without her paying rent the property still cash flows so I've got some wiggle room.

0 Reply
Joyce Williams
Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
5y
@Travis Frenchak....... I have the same issue since October 2020. The tenant moved in with her husband in October 2019, he moved out with their infant child (they had during their lease), apparently things didn’t work out between them and I informed him two months in advance that I wasn’t renewing their lease. I’ve had no contact with her because the day after they moved in she told me to only contact her husband. I contacted him a week prior to the lease expiring to find out if they will be out on time he tells me he’s out and the wife knows she has to leave. I then contact her and she sends me a notice about the eviction moratorium. I inform her that I don’t think she falls into that category and she told me to take her to court then changed her phone number so I couldn’t contact her. I contact the husband again when she didn’t leave and he had the lights turned off so she could leave. She then got the lights turned on in her name. She contacted me a couple of months later asking me to fill out a form so she can get financial assistance for the rent however I didn’t respond to her. I want her out, she’s a horrible tenant. Her social worker from social services contacted me and asked if I was willing to fill out the form so they could get me the rent and I informed her that I want her out, I don’t want the rent. A few weeks ago I hired an attorney and had a a termination of tenancy served on her. I don’t know what to do at this point. People are abusing this moratorium and no one is looking into it. I don’t think we can evict tenants even if they are holdover tenants. I contacted several attorneys and they informed me that I could not evict. Now that the moratorium has been extended these tenants will continue to stay.
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