Lease non-renewal tenant won't leave

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Lease non-renewal tenant won't leave

Travis Frenchak
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes

I have a tenant who is a month to month tenant. She has not paid rent for two months and has cut off all communication with me so I have mailed her a non renewal notification. 

My question is what are my options to get her out? Since she does not have a current lease agreement would she be trespassing? Or would I still have to evict? 

Thanks!

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Travis Frenchak:

You asked for advice because your tenant didn't move out when her lease terminated, she hasn't paid rent for two months (heading into three?), and she's not communicating. You also mailed a "non renewal" which is not the correct process.

Sorry for misreading the situation.

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  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Frank Procopio..... where are you getting your information from? I’m being told by several attorneys that I can not evict a tenant for anything now, not even a holdover tenant.

    0Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G....... I don’t know how it is where you live but in NY I’ve spoken to several attorneys who informed me that my tenant can not be evicted even though she’s a holdover tenant.

    0Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Travis Frenchak....... I don’t know about you but I would never do cash for keys. That’s ridiculous, a tenant stays past their lease, then doesn’t pay and then I’m going to pay them to leave? What guarantee do we have that they will leave? If the tenant decides to stay you’re in the same boat, you can’t evict her.

    1Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Theresa Harris........Do an inspection and then what? If the tenant has destroyed your property or is not properly taking care of it, you still can not evict her? At least not in any, if you know something different please share.

    1Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Travis Frenchak......my sentiments exactly.... living rent free and knowing you can not evict them, they absolutely are calling the shots and have the upper hand.

    1Reply
  • Travis Frenchak
    OP
    Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joyce Williams:

    @Travis Frenchak....... I have the same issue since October 2020. The tenant moved in with her husband in October 2019, he moved out with their infant child (they had during their lease), apparently things didn’t work out between them and I informed him two months in advance that I wasn’t renewing their lease. I’ve had no contact with her because the day after they moved in she told me to only contact her husband. I contacted him a week prior to the lease expiring to find out if they will be out on time he tells me he’s out and the wife knows she has to leave. I then contact her and she sends me a notice about the eviction moratorium. I inform her that I don’t think she falls into that category and she told me to take her to court then changed her phone number so I couldn’t contact her. I contact the husband again when she didn’t leave and he had the lights turned off so she could leave. She then got the lights turned on in her name. She contacted me a couple of months later asking me to fill out a form so she can get financial assistance for the rent however I didn’t respond to her. I want her out, she’s a horrible tenant. Her social worker from social services contacted me and asked if I was willing to fill out the form so they could get me the rent and I informed her that I want her out, I don’t want the rent. A few weeks ago I hired an attorney and had a a termination of tenancy served on her. I don’t know what to do at this point. People are abusing this moratorium and no one is looking into it. I don’t think we can evict tenants even if they are holdover tenants. I contacted several attorneys and they informed me that I could not evict. Now that the moratorium has been extended these tenants will continue to stay.

     Sorry to hear this. It sucks that tenants have more rights than the property owners right now, even if we do everything right. Not all landlords are multi millionaires and can afford things like this. I hope you are in a position to be able to ride this out. Good luck. 

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  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Travis Frenchak......or get arrested or get some false allegations made against you. I totally agree with you.

    1Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joyce Williams:

    @Theresa Harris........Do an inspection and then what? If the tenant has destroyed your property or is not properly taking care of it, you still can not evict her? At least not in any, if you know something different please share.

     If they have trashed the place and it is not suitable for habitation, that can give you an out as the tenant would have to move out.  For your insurance purposes, you need to inspect your property at regular intervals-check what it is for your insurance provider, some are 6 months, others are once a year.

    With the eviction ban in the US right now, it is hard. Hopefully that ends soon and those who are gaming the system (ie can pay rent, but are opting not to), get what is coming to them.

    0Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Theresa Harris...... I doubt that the place is inhabitable and I’m sure she will not let me in, notice or not. Again, there’s not much I can do at this point but wait until I’m able to evict her or she decides to move out.

    1Reply
  • Kyle J.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joyce Williams:

    @Frank Procopio..... where are you getting your information from? I’m being told by several attorneys that I can not evict a tenant for anything now, not even a holdover tenant.

    Just FYI, all the local eviction moratoriums in my area, and the statewide one in my state, only prevent evictions based on the non-payment of rent. Even the federal eviction moratorium only prevents evictions based on the non-payment of rent. Evictions for everything else are still allowed.

    In fact, not too long ago, I attended an online REIA meeting with an attorney and members from multiple states. The attorney was asked about the exact issue that this poster sounds like he is considering, which is issuing a non-paying month-to-month tenant a notice of non-renewal and then (if they refuse to leave) evicting for being a holdover tenant (which is not prohibited by the moratoriums) instead of the non-payment of rent (which is prohibited by the moratoriums). The attorney at this meeting gave his opinion that this would be completely legal. 

    Now, with all that being said, I don’t know NY law and perhaps things are different there. Certainly if you have “several attorneys” giving you advice that is all consistently saying the same thing, follow that.

    Some of us are just pointing out how it is in most of the rest of the country for other readers who may be going through the same/similar thing. 

    Good luck to all of those who are dealing with these difficult situations/tenants. 

    1Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Kyle J..... Unfortunately in NY there are no evictions at all for anything... if anyone knows something different please share.

    0Reply
  • Brian Zaug
    Lagrangeville, NY · Member since 2017 · 144 posts · 218 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joyce Williams:

    @Travis Frenchak....... I don’t know about you but I would never do cash for keys. That’s ridiculous, a tenant stays past their lease, then doesn’t pay and then I’m going to pay them to leave? What guarantee do we have that they will leave? If the tenant decides to stay you’re in the same boat, you can’t evict her.

    Yes Joyce, my attorney said the same.  Can't evict anyone right now for any reason.  Gotta love NY! 

      As for cash for keys, you would have the tenant sign a lease termination and they don't get the money until there stuff is moved out and the locks have been changed.   It's a pride swallowing move but giving them 1k to move out is certainly going to be cheaper than a NY eviction.  

    1Reply
  • Joyce Williams
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    @Brian Zaug.....Thank you for confirming. These tenants owe me over $6000., I may not get all of it back but I definitely don’t want to give them money.

    0Reply
  • Kyle J.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joyce Williams:

    @Kyle J..... Unfortunately in NY there are no evictions at all for anything... if anyone knows something different please share.

    Sorry to hear that. Must be tough to be a landlord in NY right now.

    Your Gov. Cuomo must be something of a folk hero to these tenants who are taking advantage and not paying their rent. 

    2Reply
  • Marvin MengPro Member
    Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2014 · 142 posts · 54 votes
    5y

    I went through this with a tenant just over a year ago (Madison County, IL). In IL landlords can enter the property with 24 hours notice (I think this is common). Give her the notice then go over to check the place out. 

    Also I found my county courthouse to be very helpful in walking me through the eviction process. The process isn't always landlord-friendly (especially in Illinois) but with proper guidance it's navigable. 

    My story: The tenant was avoiding me because the 5-Day notice to vacate must be served in person. So I told her I was entering the property "24 hours from now" every day for about five days. After that she had no idea when or whether I was showing up, even though I had checked the box for 24 hours notice. 

    Finally I did show up. I requested law enforcement to join me mainly so there'd be a witness to any bad behavior and to protect me from any accusations. It was hilarious to see her come out of her bedroom in lingerie to "negotiate" with me, only to be startled by the presence of the police officer. She grabbed a robe. Short story: I served the notice and she's gone.

    Good luck! I've never done cash for keys but that's probably better and quicker. Just don't pay in advance!!! And if you decide to evict you can do that successfully. Just rely on the advice of the experts in your county courthouse.

    0Reply
  • Judy Parker
    Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    5y

    Tenant is not going to cooperate with Landlord. She is going to stall, delay and drag this out as long as possible because she has a free place to live. Find a good real estate attorney and file for eviction immediately. 

    0Reply
  • Kao Saeteurn
    AZ · Member since 2018 · 78 posts · 40 votes
    5y

    I would never do this, but if the tenant isn’t paying rent and you do cash for keys, can’t you just not pay and say that you’ll take it out of the rent they owe you? Lol what are they going to do, take you to court for 500-1000 bucks? You can counter sue for the months of rent they didn’t pay. This is all a joke, but a random thought.

    1Reply
  • Brian Zaug
    Lagrangeville, NY · Member since 2017 · 144 posts · 218 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kao Saeteurn:

    I would never do this, but if the tenant isn’t paying rent and you do cash for keys, can’t you just not pay and say that you’ll take it out of the rent they owe you? Lol what are they going to do, take you to court for 500-1000 bucks? You can counter sue for the months of rent they didn’t pay. This is all a joke, but a random thought.

    That's funny...Or if the tenant isn't paying or communicating, go into the basement and blow out the pilot light on the water heater, a week or two later, disconnect the thermocouple on the furnace.  That should get her to call you during a NY winter.   And if she does call, you tell her, "I'm so sorry, due to the loss of income, I don't have enough money to fix it".  If she tries to bring you to court for this, it'll be spring before she could even get a court date in NY. (insert evil laugh here).  Of course, I would never do this to a non paying tenant who drives a bmw that's taking advantage of good people during a pandemic.  

    0Reply
  • Gary Rollings
    Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    @Kyle J. 

    Was this Attorney from California? I have a similar situation where my 1-Year Fixed Term Lease expires next month and I have provided them a Non=Renewal Notice 30 days in advance. The property is a Single Family Home in Santa Clara County. They have failed to pay any Rent since the onset of Covid-19 from March 2020 and owe upwards of $20k. They insist they are protected until the Moratorium Expires, while continuing to work and not desire to pay anything at all. I have been kind to let them stay for the duration of the Lease, however, it certainly seems they are taking my kindness for weakness and desire to stay for free until the Moratorium is over. Could you provide any contact info on the Attorney from the REIA meeting? Upon speaking with the City, they advised California's AB3088 has taken over any local ordinance and mentioned Eviction due to Non-Payment of Rent is not allowed. But I would like to go forth with a Holdover Eviction if they do not surrender possession by the termination date.

    0Reply
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