CDC Extends Eviction Moratorium to June 30, 2021
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
CDC Extends Eviction Moratorium to June 30, 2021
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5yThere's no end to the nonsense. A study in Washington found that of the 212,000 tenants behind on rent, over 12% of them admitted to no loss of income. They are literally refusing to pay rent just because they can get away with it. I suspect 12% is probably conservative.
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- Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
@Gary L Wallman Well thanks for engaging, and I'll mostly overlook the "quick civics refresher". I do have a background in legislative democracy as it interacts with the judiciary but I'll leave that for the moment. There are nuances here, but you are pretty wrong. Simplifying, it is only the appellate courts which create binding precedent, leaving it to the district courts to apply these precedent. Most reversals not based on errors of fact are caused by misinterpretation of appellate precedent. In absence of appellate consensus, no precedent is established. Different appellate court decisions mean the supreme court has to decide to create a binding precedent.
"A court ruling makes the law void". Um...no. It may or may not stay the application of the law in that particular area pending appeal. I'll wander too far out of my depth if I go much further but, no. Tain't necessarily so; especially when different district courts reach different conclusions.
And the supreme court has already established that rent and eviction moratoriums are an appropriate power of the government, as far back as the influenza epidemics of the late 1800s, 1920s and the polio epidemic of the 1950s. I can't remember the exact citations, though I looked them up and put them on another thread. You can look them up, too. And you can go to the source on the governments supreme court website. It is as easy as sharing your opnion on a bigger pockets post.
So this Supreme court, more narrowly, has also identified a number of the governor generated moratoriums as allowed, though they have limited scope in certain cases, timing in others and have signaled concern in both concurrances and dissents that the government MAY be overreaching. They may indeed be open to changing the approach that is already established precedent.
But notice the delay in doing so? they are not rushing to do this and almost certainly will not way in (if at all) until vaccination and pandemic progression have defused the crises.
I'm not arguing for or against the moratorium. I have an opinion, sure, but that is neither here nor there. We are all entitled to our own opinion but not to our own facts.
- Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
@Greg Franck
I’m seeing people hedge with being stricter on who they rent out to.
- Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 72 posts · 65 votes5y
I saw some indicators of this in a few different info sources as well as anecdotally through local channels. We are going to use a bit of both strategies (shorten available term / heighten qual standards) dependent upon asset class. In my opinion the real losers in all of this will be tenants as quality housing will be more difficult to find. Hopefully we see the expiration of the moratorium at the close of June.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
@Julie DeWolfe Arroyo congrats on being ready! This WILL be producing some inventory from tired, unprepared or just unlucky owners. That is an opportunity. Although I would be careful about overleveraging D or C properties right now!
I kind of feel for the cash flow only folks who are likely most vulnerable to this. Jobs for middle class and up are fine, properties that cater to them are going through the roof in prices. Lots of the properties being sold aren't panic selling but a rational calculation to say " ok this is a pain and inventory is low, interest rates are low...why shouldn't I sell?".
And a TON of baby boomer landlords are looking to exit "while the getting is good"...
- 5yBjorn AhlbladPro MemberInvestor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Seattle City Council has passed a ruling that all tenants who are about to be evicted will get free legal council whose job it will be to prevent an actual eviction from taking place. They will cut a deal with the LL's lawyer to get the tenant out but not burden them with an actual eviction order.
This will make it way harder for a LL to screen prospective tenants effectively but we are resourceful and will find a way; perhaps by upping the credit score. Or analyzing timing? The bad tenant will also be in a hurry to find a new place to live and will be able to pay you with the previous LL's money. Part of the deal will be to have the LL not give a bad reference for the freeloader tenant.
- Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Greg Franck:
I saw some indicators of this in a few different info sources as well as anecdotally through local channels. We are going to use a bit of both strategies (shorten available term / heighten qual standards) dependent upon asset class. In my opinion the real losers in all of this will be tenants as quality housing will be more difficult to find. Hopefully we see the expiration of the moratorium at the close of June.
You are 100% correct. The tenants are the ones who are going to suffer. I have investor friends who sold off all of their rentals in California because of what's going on. Therefore, my rentals, and ones of my clients, are going to be the only option in an already low inventory market.
- New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 0 votes5y
@Francois G. This is what I am gathering. What’s your hedge? Data centers? Storage? New asset classes/investment opportunities?
- Investor · Fontana, CA · Member since 2020 · 128 posts · 94 votes5y
I just took one of my rental listing off MLS. I'd rather an apartment stay empty than some non-paying tenant enter and I have no recourse for the foreseeable future. Less water and utility bills too! So with less supply, and landlords taking on additional risks, guess which way rents will trend ?
- Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes5y
Originally posted by @Tammy Mason:
I just took one of my rental listing off MLS. I'd rather an apartment stay empty than some non-paying tenant enter and I have no recourse for the foreseeable future. Less water and utility bills too! So with less supply, and landlords taking on additional risks, guess which way rents will trend ?
Bureaucrats can't seem to understand that if they make it entirely untenable for landlords to offer properties for rent they won't do so. Around the start of the whole COVID mess I was working on plans to build an entire street of single family rental homes. I rethought that idea when the paying of rent became entirely optional and all remedies for landlords were stripped. How can I make that investment in this regulatory environment? Meanwhile, California bureaucrats blab constantly about the "housing shortage" and ponder what ever might be done in order to remedy it.
- Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes5y
@Joe Splitrock
And COVID at this point is strictly a "health issue" not political at all.
At some point it's going to break and then a bunch of people's finances are going to be broken because eof the government sponsored excuse to be bad with your money.
- Professional · Aurora, CO · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 40 votes5y
Since tenants are ignoring their LL after signing the CDC declaration.....
Is anyone updating their leases with a RENT MORATORIUM paragraph stating....If evictions are not allowed - tenant must set up a rent payment plan with LL or advise LL of any rental assistance they are seeking and the outcome. Tenant must communicate with LL and keep LL updated as to any changes to income. Failure to communicate with LL or keep LL updated is a lease violation.
Also, during the initial screening, are you asking applicants if they have previously signed a CDC declaration/order preventing evictions?
- Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
I think the solution for CDC overreach is to allow evictions in states that don't have mask mandates or limits on business capacity or such.
The idea of not allowing evictions (note that I did not say the CDC moratorium) came at a time when eviction was seen as a major vector for spreading the disease. As others have said here, people are lining up, maskless, for all and sundry things. Evictions are therefore not a major vector for Covid in states without mask and capacity mandates. Have the CDC rescind the eviction moratorium for those states that refuse to have disease mandates. That will force the people, and politicians, to chose: Moratorium (popular with tenants) or mandates with compliance.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Newport News, VA · Member since 2016 · 128 posts · 54 votes5y
@John Underwood so, if a property is free and clear. The tenant can be evicted?
- 5yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Originally posted by @Huso Akaratovic:
@John Underwood so, if a property is free and clear. The tenant can be evicted?
In SC as long as you don't have a Freddy Mac, Fannie Mae backed loan you can evict. I just did it.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Newport News, VA · Member since 2016 · 128 posts · 54 votes5y
@John Underwood good to know that, thank you. How do I check if that applies in Virginia?
- 5yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Originally posted by @Huso Akaratovic:
@John Underwood good to know that, thank you. How do I check if that applies in Virginia?
Talk with your local Magistrate.
- Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 8 votes5y
@Gary L Wallman you are totally correct and it’s because we all sit back and take it, me included but I’m not for much longer. They’re crooks using their power for gain and playing us for stupid while they take our property! Is it even our property anymore (when it’s a negative thing like taxes it’s ours to have)? They say what we can do with our own things. How much longer do we allow it and why has it gotten to where they take what they want of ours and let us pay the tab. Government isn’t the answer it’s the problem and always has been. If anyone believes the government is for us and looking out for anyone besides their own pockets you have been living under a rock or stupid. They strong arm now and successful at it so far. Love my country but can’t stand our sorry crooked no good *** government. The way I see it, its my house and if you don’t pay me I’ll be there and you’ll be out on your ***. Next tenant take note of what just happened! My house not theirs my rules. Should always be like that. I don’t tell them what to do in their house nor would they care if I did! How are they “us” or acting as one of us? More like above us or communist mfs
- Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 8 votes5y
@Matthew K. I’d say quit letting them say what you can do with your property. Laws that aren’t constitutional don’t need to be followed (not in my house anyway) and that’s what they’re staying in. Make them leave...or do what government says too until yer broke and it ain’t yours anymore
- Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 8 votes5y
We are all so worried about following the rules of a government who throws us to the wolves that we forget that It’s our property not theirs and we are justified in not letting them overstep their role. Fight back by doing what is right for your family even if it’s standing up for yourself and telling government to kiss your ***. Enough do that and we’ll quit getting crapped on. Until then, keep worrying about it and follow their guidelines and they get worse! Everyone fears the government yet acts like they’re gonna save somebody cuz they care! That’s a joke! Give them my gun and my house? Come get em they won’t do, they want you to comply and volunteer and be ran over but law is not on their side only fear is! Wake up people they do what we let them simple as that.
- Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 8 votes5y
@Jonathan R McLaughlin if we are talking about my property I’m entitled to give two ***** about all the big words and kick yer *** outta my house. Go get yer daddy government and live in his house. Everyone is bending over and letting government slide it in w/o question. This is why they do what they want with property not theirs to have control of. Rights rights wrongs wrong my conscience is what I go by and will always stand up for what’s mine. Y’all should try it and quit letting them run us all over cuz cowards won’t stand up with the few that won’t allow for this. They don’t pay they dont stay.
- Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2020 · 36 posts · 16 votes5y
@Jeremy Clayton I think you have an interesting point here. CBS just came out with an article showing how some of the biggest property management groups actually had record years last year and were doing evictions while other articles show that smaller landlords in more regulated cities arent able to do any evictions and are loosing their shirts (and are selling now to the big guys). I think alot of it depends on your local laws rather than the national ones at the moment.
- Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 4 votes5y
@Greg Franck- Yes I’m doing 6-month leases.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
i don’t understand it either. I lost my $2400 a month job March last year but my husband and I were each getting $3600 a month for a while there plus the first $2400 stimulus. Even now with only an extra $300 per week for unemployment we are bringing in $4000 a month. And we just got our $2800 stimulus my husband has also qualified for a small business loan for his little freelance design thing he does, and I’ve qualified for both the city and state rental relief programs and the usual hopwa grant I’m eligible for every year. At our last place I never had to use any of the aid because we were able to pay rent on time every month.
I’d still be paying On time if the current landlord would accept it. Since he refuses to accept payment, won’t communicate with me, won’t repair the pipes that burst during the winter storm, and is trying to unlawfully evict us because he doesn’t want gay people in his properties and he didn’t like that I talked to a lawyer. So now he gets nothing unless a court decides he does. All back rent is put aside in a separate account too
Sorry went off topic for a second my point was that I cannot comprehend how anyone can be that financially devastated that they can’t be paying SOMETHING. Or at the very least communicate with the landlord. I’ve always found honesty and making an attempt to go a long way in preventing a major issue but to just ignore and stiff the landlord—selfish and unethical she wrong
A lot of people do nonsensical things. Why does your Landlord care who you sleep with? Most Landlords could care less about your personal life as long as you pay and take care of the property. I suspect your Landlord will end up losing when it goes to court. Keep socking that money away just in case. If you win big enough, you may have a nice down payment for your own home!
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes5y
Originally posted by @Jeremy Clayton:
@Gary L Wallman you are totally correct and it’s because we all sit back and take it, me included but I’m not for much longer. They’re crooks using their power for gain and playing us for stupid while they take our property! Is it even our property anymore (when it’s a negative thing like taxes it’s ours to have)? They say what we can do with our own things. How much longer do we allow it and why has it gotten to where they take what they want of ours and let us pay the tab. Government isn’t the answer it’s the problem and always has been. If anyone believes the government is for us and looking out for anyone besides their own pockets you have been living under a rock or stupid. They strong arm now and successful at it so far. Love my country but can’t stand our sorry crooked no good *** government. The way I see it, its my house and if you don’t pay me I’ll be there and you’ll be out on your ***. Next tenant take note of what just happened! My house not theirs my rules. Should always be like that. I don’t tell them what to do in their house nor would they care if I did! How are they “us” or acting as one of us? More like above us or communist mfs
Jeremy,
Spot on. I'm amazed when I hear stupid comments such as "greedy landlords rent is to damn high" like landlords are able to set rent at any level they feel like. How about thank you Mr. Landlord for investing 300k so I can live like I have money for 2500 a month and bash your house to **** because I have nothing invested.
Add insult to injury our liberal government wants to essentially take over our property for as long as they wish and give it away. Our constitution is becoming as meaningless as our so called leaders and rule of law.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @James Hamling:
@Joe Splitrock @Nathan Gesner if you thought this circus act was the whole show..... CDC just released an "official" report of findings on the source of the covid-19 virus. Best part, lol, it's a "joint venture" study with China, give ya 1 guess who it says ISNT at fault in any way shape or form..... It's a great read, it really clarifies things that officially, it probably came from a bat, to something else, to a person, somewhere, most DEFINENTLY not a leak from a lab in China (I kid you not, it actually says that).
Have any of you seen the movie Idiocracy? You know, where Terry Crews is "President Komacho". Why do I feel like it's coming true.........
I watched that movie. Not the greatest flick ever or anything but I got a kick out of it.
In a similar vein, I'm a bit of a music nerd and recently watched the new 2112 video put out by the band Rush (youtube). The album/record is from the 1970's, but they recently made an animated video of it. The song 2112 is like 20 minutes long with seven parts telling the story of this guy who lives in a communist world where every thought and pleasure is created and controlled by the "priests". While the story was nothing new then and even more familiar now, the part I thought was truly visionary was where the priests talk about how their "great computers fill their hallowed halls". The Apple PC had not even come out when the record was made.
And if I'm going to just ramble on here...(yup, I am)...the story is about how this guy discovers a guitar behind a waterfall in an ancient secret and abandoned cave. He has no idea what it is, but picks it up and discovers its beauty. He immediately realizes that with this ancient "miracle", that each and every person would have the ability to create their own music, and that would bring wonderful things to the current world. So, excited as a child, he brings the guitar to the priests to show them, expecting he will be well-received and celebrated for his discovery that he knows will change the world for the better - an inalienable truth. To the mans astonishment, the priests declare they are full aware of guitars, and state that they were "another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man". The priests further state they, nor anyone, has use for such things and that the man ought think about the "average" and what use the average has for him. The guy continues to plea with the priests to consider the contributions such an instrument could bring to the world, and the priests respond by smashing the guitar to pieces.
Then the guy returns to the hidden cave beneath the waterfall. He is seriously depressed. He now has knowledge of incredible beauty, and knowledge that the beauty is deliberately being refused to the people by those he has always trusted. He falls into a dream and dreams that the elder race is not extinct, but left his world long ago and still lives and grows in the present, on other worlds. He wakes from the dream more depressed than ever, and kills himself.
Just as he has taken his own life, the elder race returns in force, and removes the priests from power.
Yup, it's a tragedy. Idiocracy has a happy ending, sort of - lol. The question I ask if anyone got this far is this - which ending is more likely to come true in our own world? The happy ending or the tragedy?
How is a person suppose to sort out the misinformation from the misinformation? When the misinformation attacks the misinformation??? Even the brightest among us scratch our heads thinking it over. And perhaps, being an idiot is the smartest play. If something takes more than a few simple sentences to explain, it's probably ********.
The moratorium is ********. The way the people have gone along with everything and lapped it up like stupid fish that snap at bait is more than just a little depressing to me.
Here's a great suggestion for a film for you - Mind Your Mind.
If you didn't enjoy that long essay well, sorry. I haven't been on BP for a long time and I guess you got the bad luck of being the guy I replied to - lol - peace.
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