Ongoing eviction from hell in California

Adriana Arnold · 2021-05-05T19:24:08-07:00

Hello All, I am brand new to BiggerPockets and find it to be a great place comprised of helpful advice and expertise. I am a landlord of a single family home in California that has run my property as a charity rather than a business and I am paying for it now. I rented my single family home to a couple on a Month to Month rental agreement that said that they had three kids in college and none of them were on the lease. They were overall late on rent, the rent is 40% below the market value, they would be complaining about issues but never being available for the contractors to come and fix those issues..... Covid comes and they stop paying and would pay 20% of the rent every three to four months. This January, we get a message from them that the roof is leaky and after having given a 24h notice we arrange for a professional roofer to inspect the roof two days later.My husband shows up at the house with the roofer and one of the sons comes out and tells my husband that he can't come in but only the roofer. So my mother-in-law who was also there said that she is about to call the sheriff and the son lets them in. During this visit, we discover that in addition to original tenants, there are 6 extra people living there. It's a 3 bedroom house. The two sons, sons' girlfriends, one year old child and an elderly woman, mother of the female tenant. The kitchen has a bed in it, and the rooms have blankets over furniture and no light. I immediately told my husband that I will contact a lawyer to start the eviction procedure for unauthorized occupants.The tenants' lawyer responds, and in his response fills out every box in the denials section, from habitability issues to retaliation passing rent control, etc. and of course ask for a jury trial. Our court date was today, and we were informed three days ago that a son of the tenants is making a tutorial for marijuana farm cultivation in our backyard. We receive 25 short videos of him going step by step from taking marijuana plants from the kitchen to using welding generator to start building the farm structure in the backyard. The city representative went to the house but they didn't open the door so he left a notice of violation on the door and informed us about it. We wanted the city to dismantle the structure as all this was on social media in public view possibly making our home a target of marijuana related home invasion, or any other crime. Today, the city officer went their with the sheriff and all the marijuana was removed and the tenants were very friendly and compliant. Their criminal backgrounds were clean. Of course, they had two days to remove all the incriminating evidence. Today we show up in court, and our lawyer tells us that considering the backlog in courts, it may take up to 6 months to actually get the jury trial and that the tenants are holding us hostages so we can keep losing money, we should make them a settlement offer. As we need the house so we can move in as we live currently in one room within my husband's father's house where I teach my classes online while my kids are on Zoom at the same time, we said that we are willing to forgive $25 000 rental debt and give them two extra months to leave. Their lawyer said that they may consider our offer if we give them an extra year of rent free stay at the house!!!! So pretty much two and a half year of free rent to four generations of a family that has no right per lease to be there. Their lawyer refuses the offer arguing that since they were able to deposit $500 in money order onto my account we have waived our eviction rights..of course, I had returned their money orders with a letter stating that we have not waived our rights to evict and I closed my bank account. Then the lawyer says that growing marijuana is not a big deal, and that being threatened by one of the sons is not a big deal either, the son told us that he knew where we lived and made the sign of cutting one's throat while looking at my husband. Our lawyer said that in 30 years of her career, she hasn't seen anything like this and that marijuana farm tutorial on its own deserves to earn them an automatic eviction, but since they asked for a jury trial the judge has to approve it. I am wondering if any of you had any similar experience and what advice would you have on how to deal with this situation? Thank you!

Mark Brogan

Investor · Roanoke, VA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes

5y

@Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

0 Reply

Tony Kim

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 844 posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Mark Brogan:

@Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

JFC, this has got to be the dumbest and most disingenuous thing I've read on BP.

@Adriana, you've been given a lot of good advice by some other posters. I also live and own rentals in CA, specifically Los Angeles where we have a lot of 'professional' renters and a lot of sleazy legal aids who advise these tenants on the best way to stay in the property as long as possible and then their fee is essentially a cut of the cash-for keys payment. They are just waiting for you to make a mistake that will allow them to stay in your property longer. Their whole goal is to milk the situation for as long as possible. In order to maintain a coherent strategy and not make any mistakes during this process, I think you have to make sure your lawyer specializes or has a lot of experience with tenant evictions as the process can be very nuanced and is highly procedural. I know you want to take action and do whatever you can to speed up the process, but I also think it's important not to inadvertently delay things by doing something that you shouldn't have.

0 Reply

Adriana Arnold

OP

Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes

5y

@Ariel Jeidel, I empathy with you. We are in the same boat.

@Mark Brogan, would leave your house to the bank if you had over $300 000 of equity in it and you plan to make it your primary residence ? Should I take some of that equity out to pay immoral and dishonest individuals who will move onto another landlord and make his/her live miserable? I would rather take some of that equity and help build a library in my birth country of Bosnia.

3 Reply

Adriana Arnold

OP

Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes

5y

@Tony Kim thank you for your wise advice! You are right, a procedural mistake almost destroyed the entire process as the tenants were able to deposit a money order onto my account which generally implies that the landlord waives the eviction rights and has to start the entire process all over. That's the general concept, yet a waiver is a matter of intent not facts. I cannot have accepted the rent since it was directly deposited onto my account thus voiding the waiver.

Yet, the tenants lawyer wants to hold onto that even though the eviction is for breach of lease and not rent payment.

We have not responded to threats and intimidations, trying to do everything by the law. Imaging watching live on social media your backyard being destroyed and turned into a marijuana farm? Thankfully the city intervened swiftly and the structure was taken apart and the plants removed who knows where but outside of a public eye.

1 Reply

Jerrid M. Richards

Real Estate Broker · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 10 votes

5y

I feel your pain, I have a low-life that moved into a fully renovated home in February 2020 and hasn't paid rent since March 2020. His two Pitbulls have destroyed the backyard and he hasn't picked up their feces in a year. The dogs are not allowed to be there, his lease is expired, he is working full time which we have proof of and he married his husband, had a wedding, and moved him in without permission which we also have proof of yet no judge will grant an eviction. Every time the judge rules in his favor he becomes more and more smug and arrogant while claiming my property managers are harassing him. How is this real life?

2 Reply

Adriana Arnold

OP

Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes

5y

@Jerrid M. Richards wow! That is crazy! On which law principle is the judge ruling in his favor? Is it only due to signed Covid hardship statement ?

0 Reply

Lee Bell

Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes

5y

Sounds like a worst case scenario of

No good deed goes unpunished.

1 Reply

Jason Goretzki

Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 95 votes

5y

If you are going to use the social media videos as evidence, I would recommend you get a screen shot of the video including their social media name & the URL Then also download & save a local copy of the videos in the event that the channel or individual videos are ever removed or deleted.

2 Reply

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

@Ariel Jeidel, I empathy with you. We are in the same boat.

@Mark Brogan, would leave your house to the bank if you had over $300 000 of equity in it and you plan to make it your primary residence ? Should I take some of that equity out to pay immoral and dishonest individuals who will move onto another landlord and make his/her live miserable? I would rather take some of that equity and help build a library in my birth country of Bosnia.

From reading our posts, I can tell you are smart and tough. You have an overwhelmingly strong case. I would tell their attorney that the offer to forgive rent has expiration on X date and there will be no other offer. Tell him the next step is eviction on the tenants records and financial judgements, which you will make every effort to collect.

As a side note, although attorneys can use any legal means to defend their clients, steering them towards illegal means can get an attorney disbarred. Assuming this is free public legal help, those type of organizations are setup to help disadvantaged people who are taken advantage of by landlords. These are criminals who most likely have money, which begs the question why they didn't just pay rent? Each adult would have received thousands in stimulus money, possibly even thousands more in unemployment on top of any drug sale profits.

This "free help center" is wasting time defending criminals. That by itself is a good news story, which would shine light on government waste or non profit misappropriation of funds. I am not saying the "bad apples" shouldn't get a defense, but their attorney should tell them they are breaking the law and they should take the $25,000 settlement. That is good for them, so that is hardly an "evil landlord" winning. I would consider calling the director of the legal help center and report this attorney. I would also consider reporting them to the state bar. Tell the agency you fear for your life, in writing, and that you believe the attorney is encouraging them to stay and teaching them stall tactics. So instead of defending based on legal merit, the attorney is directing their actions to fabricate a defense strategy.

Even if reporting them does nothing, you can later claim you contacted the head of the non-profit and they did nothing. If you send emails, you have proof you took action. Where this can be helpful is if the attorney or situation gets worse. You have proof the director was aware and took no action, which makes them look worse.

Document everything with dates and times of all correspondence. You have a huge group of landlords on your side, so know we are all supporting you.

5 Reply

Tim Ryan

Investor / Mentor / Contractor · Arcadia, CA Buying Out of State · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 622 votes

5y

@Adriana Arnold that’s a long post and I hope you get through this. Here’s my short answer: don’t own rentals in California. I live in Calif but all my rentals are out of state.

3 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

So sorry to hear of this experience. I also own a rental in California and stories like this scare the crap out of me sometimes! What kind of screening did you do on these tenants? I am super super picky about who I let into my CA property. I would rather keep the place empty for months before lowering my standard. And if I cant get those tenants, I will sell the property or keep it vacant for my personal use.

The lesson here is be VERY careful who you let into your very expensive asset. Do not lower your standards no matter what. If you cant afford a long vacancy you cant afford to own a rental in CA.

Beyond that I have no advice (at least not legal means) beyond what others have said here. But I wish you the best.

2 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Odessa, FL · Member since 2017 · 145 posts · 113 votes

5y

OP I'm sorry for what you're experiencing, I can't offer you any help unfortunately.

This forum post should go straight to the 'why you should never invest in CA Real Estate' Manual.

1 Reply

Victor S.

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

i guess you got some pro renters that were well prepared for this. from reading your posts, it appears (at least to me), that their lawyer is a bulldog and yours a shih tzu. what is your lawyer saying to all this nonsense?

i guess they did their prepping reading stuff like this: https://caltenantlaw.com/unlaw...

"Summary Judgment is the landlord’s only hope against a jury trial. A Summary Judgment motion is greatly abused by landlord lawyers and the UD judges, so as to skip all the fair trial nonsense and get right to your demise. A summary judgment is designed only to eliminate cases with no possibility of winning. The landlord would have to show that they did everything right, and that none of your defenses have any chance at all. If there were 1,000 witnesses, photographs, and documents against you, and only your claims of what you know in opposition, you should win, because a jury would believe you and not them.

In deciding this motion, the judge is supposed to ignore everything the landlord claims and consider only what the tenant claims. The judge cannot “weigh” the evidence, or assess “credibility” of the tenant. When the judge rules on the summary judgment motion, he/she has to explain every disputed point and how the ruling was made. All doubts are required to be resolved in your favor, no matter how unlikely the judge may think they are. Unfortunately, the pro-landlord UD judges are more than happy to grant these motions, defy the law, and crush the tenants’ chances for a fair trial where they would have won. We are still working on that."

Have you discussed filing a motion for summary judgement with your attorney yet? what triable issue of fact exists in this case to grant an actual jury trial? from the looks of it, this appears to be a pretty straightforward situation, especially if you have everything documented (i sure hope you do).

https://research.ceb.com/secon...

22 Summary Judgment

§22.1 I. PURPOSE OF MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

Either party who desires to cut short an unlawful detainer action may move for a summary judgment before trial on the respective ground that the action has no merit (motion by tenant) or that there is no defense to it (motion by landlord). See CCP §§437c, 1170.7; Hong Sang Market, Inc. v Peng (2018) 20 CA5th 474, 482. The purpose of the procedure is to determine whether a trial is necessary to resolve the dispute. Aguilar v Atlantic Richfield Co. (2001) 25 C4th 826. The motion should be granted if the papers submitted show that the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law because there is no triable issue of material fact. CCP §437c(c). Summary judgment is also appropriate when there are no disputed facts and the sole question before the court is one of law. See Varni Bros. Corp. v Wine World, Inc. (1995) 35 CA4th 880, 887. On the burden of proof in a summary judgment motion, see §22.2A.

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Tony Kim:

Originally posted by @Mark Brogan:

@Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

JFC, this has got to be the dumbest and most disingenuous thing I've read on BP.

@Adriana, you've been given a lot of good advice by some other posters. I also live and own rentals in CA, specifically Los Angeles where we have a lot of 'professional' renters and a lot of sleazy legal aids who advise these tenants on the best way to stay in the property as long as possible and then their fee is essentially a cut of the cash-for keys payment. They are just waiting for you to make a mistake that will allow them to stay in your property longer. Their whole goal is to milk the situation for as long as possible. In order to maintain a coherent strategy and not make any mistakes during this process, I think you have to make sure your lawyer specializes or has a lot of experience with tenant evictions as the process can be very nuanced and is highly procedural. I know you want to take action and do whatever you can to speed up the process, but I also think it's important not to inadvertently delay things by doing something that you shouldn't have.

Tony I hear what your saying but you would be surprised how many choose the walk away on rentals when faced with this if they have very little equity.. in CA its a non recourse state so its a bad blemish on credit.. But if you dont have the money to fight it and dont have the money for cash for keys its just dying from a thousand cuts.. the other thing to do potentially it sounds like they owned it for a while maybe a heloc to raise cash for keys and legal .. Or sell to an investor and get some cash and move on and let a hard nosed investor go at these people.. Very sad state of affairs.. I got one tenant out in PDX using the FLASH cash method last fall.. it worked but i deemed myself lucky.

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1 Reply

JD MartinBusiness Member

Moderator

Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

i guess you got some pro renters that were well prepared for this. from reading your posts, it appears (at least to me), that their lawyer is a bulldog and yours a shih tzu. what is your lawyer saying to all this nonsense?

i guess they did their prepping reading stuff like this: https://caltenantlaw.com/unlaw...

"Summary Judgment is the landlord’s only hope against a jury trial. A Summary Judgment motion is greatly abused by landlord lawyers and the UD judges, so as to skip all the fair trial nonsense and get right to your demise. A summary judgment is designed only to eliminate cases with no possibility of winning. The landlord would have to show that they did everything right, and that none of your defenses have any chance at all. If there were 1,000 witnesses, photographs, and documents against you, and only your claims of what you know in opposition, you should win, because a jury would believe you and not them.

In deciding this motion, the judge is supposed to ignore everything the landlord claims and consider only what the tenant claims. The judge cannot “weigh” the evidence, or assess “credibility” of the tenant. When the judge rules on the summary judgment motion, he/she has to explain every disputed point and how the ruling was made. All doubts are required to be resolved in your favor, no matter how unlikely the judge may think they are. Unfortunately, the pro-landlord UD judges are more than happy to grant these motions, defy the law, and crush the tenants’ chances for a fair trial where they would have won. We are still working on that."

I agree with Victor here. It sounds like you have a marshmallow for an attorney. You need someone who likes the taste of blood. Not all attorneys are suited for all kinds of cases. They may have a free attorney but that attorney is also working on probably dozens of other cases at the same time, since "free" attorneys are in pretty high demand. Your attorney should be making their attorney work his/her *** off on this case. That alone can sometimes force a settlement.

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6 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

i guess you got some pro renters that were well prepared for this. from reading your posts, it appears (at least to me), that their lawyer is a bulldog and yours a shih tzu. what is your lawyer saying to all this nonsense?

i guess they did their prepping reading stuff like this: https://caltenantlaw.com/unlaw...

"Summary Judgment is the landlord’s only hope against a jury trial. A Summary Judgment motion is greatly abused by landlord lawyers and the UD judges, so as to skip all the fair trial nonsense and get right to your demise. A summary judgment is designed only to eliminate cases with no possibility of winning. The landlord would have to show that they did everything right, and that none of your defenses have any chance at all. If there were 1,000 witnesses, photographs, and documents against you, and only your claims of what you know in opposition, you should win, because a jury would believe you and not them.

In deciding this motion, the judge is supposed to ignore everything the landlord claims and consider only what the tenant claims. The judge cannot “weigh” the evidence, or assess “credibility” of the tenant. When the judge rules on the summary judgment motion, he/she has to explain every disputed point and how the ruling was made. All doubts are required to be resolved in your favor, no matter how unlikely the judge may think they are. Unfortunately, the pro-landlord UD judges are more than happy to grant these motions, defy the law, and crush the tenants’ chances for a fair trial where they would have won. We are still working on that."

Have you discussed filing a motion for summary judgement with your attorney yet? what triable issue of fact exists in this case to grant an actual jury trial? from the looks of it, this appears to be a pretty straightforward situation, especially if you have everything documented (i sure hope you do).

https://research.ceb.com/secon...

22 Summary Judgment

§22.1 I. PURPOSE OF MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

Either party who desires to cut short an unlawful detainer action may move for a summary judgment before trial on the respective ground that the action has no merit (motion by tenant) or that there is no defense to it (motion by landlord). See CCP §§437c, 1170.7; Hong Sang Market, Inc. v Peng (2018) 20 CA5th 474, 482. The purpose of the procedure is to determine whether a trial is necessary to resolve the dispute. Aguilar v Atlantic Richfield Co. (2001) 25 C4th 826. The motion should be granted if the papers submitted show that the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law because there is no triable issue of material fact. CCP §437c(c). Summary judgment is also appropriate when there are no disputed facts and the sole question before the court is one of law. See Varni Bros. Corp. v Wine World, Inc. (1995) 35 CA4th 880, 887. On the burden of proof in a summary judgment motion, see §22.2A.

Summary judgements are next to impossible to win and very expensive to prosecute.

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1 Reply

Greg M.

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Tim Ryan:

@Adriana Arnold that’s a long post and I hope you get through this. Here’s my short answer: don’t own rentals in California. I live in Calif but all my rentals are out of state.

This isn't a "don't invest in CA" story. This is a "run your business like a business" story. OP screwed up badly. Sounds like bad screening, failing to stay on top of the tenants, failing to file eviction or non-renew when the rent was late, failure to enforce the lease terms, failure to keep the rent at market rates, failure to inspect the property, etc. Not to bash on OP, but OP was the major failure here. CA laws are only delaying the justice.

Is CA hard to invest in? Sure, it is high cost, high tax, anti-landlord, slow with due process, and keeps changing the rules to (supposedly) make it easier for tenants to qualify for a rental and harder to evict. WTF would anyone invest here? Because with all the risks comes reward. Rents keep going up. Property values keep going up. Demand is always there. And no matter what taxes the state throws at us, we will always pass it along to the tenant. With proper screening, treating it like a business, and knowing the laws, you can significantly reduce the risk of situations like this.

4 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

i guess you got some pro renters that were well prepared for this. from reading your posts, it appears (at least to me), that their lawyer is a bulldog and yours a shih tzu. what is your lawyer saying to all this nonsense?

i guess they did their prepping reading stuff like this: https://caltenantlaw.com/unlaw...

"Summary Judgment is the landlord’s only hope against a jury trial. A Summary Judgment motion is greatly abused by landlord lawyers and the UD judges, so as to skip all the fair trial nonsense and get right to your demise. A summary judgment is designed only to eliminate cases with no possibility of winning. The landlord would have to show that they did everything right, and that none of your defenses have any chance at all. If there were 1,000 witnesses, photographs, and documents against you, and only your claims of what you know in opposition, you should win, because a jury would believe you and not them.

In deciding this motion, the judge is supposed to ignore everything the landlord claims and consider only what the tenant claims. The judge cannot “weigh” the evidence, or assess “credibility” of the tenant. When the judge rules on the summary judgment motion, he/she has to explain every disputed point and how the ruling was made. All doubts are required to be resolved in your favor, no matter how unlikely the judge may think they are. Unfortunately, the pro-landlord UD judges are more than happy to grant these motions, defy the law, and crush the tenants’ chances for a fair trial where they would have won. We are still working on that."

I agree with Victor here. It sounds like you have a marshmallow for an attorney. You need someone who likes the taste of blood. Not all attorneys are suited for all kinds of cases. They may have a free attorney but that attorney is also working on probably dozens of other cases at the same time, since "free" attorneys are in pretty high demand. Your attorney should be making their attorney work his/her *** off on this case. That alone can sometimes force a settlement.

Out this way attorneys are at least 350 to 400 an hour.. going the litigation route will cost this lady some big time money.. its a rock and hard spot.. What would be great is to have mandatory mediation just like we have in our real estate contracts.. and have a seperate department that is set up just for landlord tenant mediation. make it binding bring an attorney if you want to but dont need to.. etc.. I know there are eviction courts but in a mediation setting maybe things get settled better.

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0 Reply

Tim Ryan

Investor / Mentor / Contractor · Arcadia, CA Buying Out of State · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 622 votes

5y

@Greg M. yeah, or don’t don’t rental property in Cali!

0 Reply

Tony Kim

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 844 posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Tony Kim:

Originally posted by @Mark Brogan:

@Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

JFC, this has got to be the dumbest and most disingenuous thing I've read on BP.

@Adriana, you've been given a lot of good advice by some other posters. I also live and own rentals in CA, specifically Los Angeles where we have a lot of 'professional' renters and a lot of sleazy legal aids who advise these tenants on the best way to stay in the property as long as possible and then their fee is essentially a cut of the cash-for keys payment. They are just waiting for you to make a mistake that will allow them to stay in your property longer. Their whole goal is to milk the situation for as long as possible. In order to maintain a coherent strategy and not make any mistakes during this process, I think you have to make sure your lawyer specializes or has a lot of experience with tenant evictions as the process can be very nuanced and is highly procedural. I know you want to take action and do whatever you can to speed up the process, but I also think it's important not to inadvertently delay things by doing something that you shouldn't have.

Tony I hear what your saying but you would be surprised how many choose the walk away on rentals when faced with this if they have very little equity.. in CA its a non recourse state so its a bad blemish on credit.. But if you dont have the money to fight it and dont have the money for cash for keys its just dying from a thousand cuts.. the other thing to do potentially it sounds like they owned it for a while maybe a heloc to raise cash for keys and legal .. Or sell to an investor and get some cash and move on and let a hard nosed investor go at these people.. Very sad state of affairs.. I got one tenant out in PDX using the FLASH cash method last fall.. it worked but i deemed myself lucky.

Yeah, I know.... and my apologies to @Mark Brogan for my reaction. I'd agree that it would be a good move if there was very little equity. Heck, I'd even gladly take the credit blemish if we're talking less than 100K. But this is an SFR in California that's being rented out. So presumably, unless the OP is bleeding tons of cash even while rented, I think we're talking about a substantial amount of equity.

Since the OP needs to move back into the property, I just think the best thing to do is work closely with the lawyer and methodically do everything necessary toward the ultimate goal, which is the Sheriff's Notice to Vacate. Unfortunately, with Covid and the bottleneck of evictions we already have, it's going to take some time. Another alternative is to raise cash from friend and family members in order to be in a position to offer cash for keys. I'd certainly contribute if a Go Fund Me page was set up for the OP.

Just a few additional random thoughts:

I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough to say that nothing described in this thread is truly actionable. What I mean is, there is a lot of talk about reporting the other lawyer, getting a better lawyer, threatening with disbarment, reporting to police about the death threat...etc. None of these will amount to anything and some of these suggestions will cost the OP a lot of money, time and emotional wear and tear.

There is also talk about starting a media campaign, etc. I don't mean to be a downer, but this won't amount to much either unless the OP is willing to put in a huge amount of time and have a lot of folks helping her.

0 Reply

Shanai Rogers

Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 6 votes

5y

Originally posted by @Jeff Willis:

I have been there and done that. I had a similar situation at an SFR I owned in Redding, CA. There are a few things that you need to assume to be fact: (FYI My wife is a bankruptcy attorney and also deals in real estate)

It will take a year to get them out;
They are not paying for the attorney. There are groups of attorneys that provide free services to tenants. They are radical and will do everything to cost you money in attorney fees in hopes of settling and paying their fees;
When they leave, your house will be destroyed entirely and unlivable;
You will never collect a penny from them for back rent or damages, so offering to forgive rent is meaningless. Once out, they will file bankruptcy, and your claim goes away. You can never collect anything;
Landlords have no rights in California;
Expect to spend a substantial amount to get them out finally;
Your attorney is limited in what they can do, but they do have good advice on what you can do

What to do? Cash talks, rent forgiveness, does not because they will never pay the back rent, so basically, you forgive nothing. I had an attorney, and they agreed to my actions but had no knowledge of it (plausible deniability). The attorney can't do it because if the tenant is represented, they must go through their attorney. Those rules do not bind me; I can contact the tenant directly.

What I did, I got $10,000 in $100 bills. I met with the tenant, showed them the pile of money, and said, "this is yours if you move in 10 days and sign these forms. The forms were a 1542 waiver and dismissal of their countersuit, substitution of attorney (substituting their attorney for Pro-Per). I told them that once they are out, I will hand them the cash. I mentioned that if their attorney gets involved, the deal is off. It worked. Cash talks, and cash is king. In your case, it may be more than 10K that is required. I filed the dismissal and substitution with the court. Their attorney was pissed and threatened me, but nothing he could do; he no longer represented them. I even offered to provide U-HAUL trucks and drivers.

What they didn't know is that I transferred all utilities into my name. As the property owner, I can do that. I did have to pay their delinquent accounts, but now I have control of the utilities.

I spent about 20K total in getting them out. Make your sure liability and fire insurance is current.

Very Very smart man Jeff

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Scott Mac

Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

Hello All,

... I rented my single family home to a couple ... three kids in college .... rent 40% below the market ... there are 6 extra people living there... son making marijuana farm in backyard... sheriff removed it... threatened by one of the sons...told us that he knew where we lived and made the sign of cutting one's throat while looking at my husband.

That boy seems like some real "College Material".

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Shiva Bhaskar

Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 476 votes

5y

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

There is no guarantee that even if they filed bankruptcy that the debt would be wiped away by the court. She would get to tell her side and judges aren't too keen on rewarding people for ill-gotten gains.

Perhaps she never collects a penny, but you never know. Collection agencies exist for a reason. Judgments last 10+10 years. That's a long time. Young scumbags can become better citizens with real jobs where their wages can be attached. They get married to a person with a real job and that paycheck gets dumped into a household bank account. Bank accounts can be levied. They inherit assets that can be liened. Maybe they need a loan and need this off their credit report and will pay all or even a fraction of it to get it removed.

Get the names of everyone there. File suit naming all of them, not just those on the lease. Who caused the damage? Who cares, let them fight it out and point fingers or let the court assess damages to some/all of them.

This is very true. I'm an attorney who works with consumers, and we regularly get calls on consumers who have old, renewed judgments. Get an aggressive lawyer and fight them as much as you can.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Tony Kim:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Tony Kim:

Originally posted by @Mark Brogan:

@Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

JFC, this has got to be the dumbest and most disingenuous thing I've read on BP.

@Adriana, you've been given a lot of good advice by some other posters. I also live and own rentals in CA, specifically Los Angeles where we have a lot of 'professional' renters and a lot of sleazy legal aids who advise these tenants on the best way to stay in the property as long as possible and then their fee is essentially a cut of the cash-for keys payment. They are just waiting for you to make a mistake that will allow them to stay in your property longer. Their whole goal is to milk the situation for as long as possible. In order to maintain a coherent strategy and not make any mistakes during this process, I think you have to make sure your lawyer specializes or has a lot of experience with tenant evictions as the process can be very nuanced and is highly procedural. I know you want to take action and do whatever you can to speed up the process, but I also think it's important not to inadvertently delay things by doing something that you shouldn't have.

Tony I hear what your saying but you would be surprised how many choose the walk away on rentals when faced with this if they have very little equity.. in CA its a non recourse state so its a bad blemish on credit.. But if you dont have the money to fight it and dont have the money for cash for keys its just dying from a thousand cuts.. the other thing to do potentially it sounds like they owned it for a while maybe a heloc to raise cash for keys and legal .. Or sell to an investor and get some cash and move on and let a hard nosed investor go at these people.. Very sad state of affairs.. I got one tenant out in PDX using the FLASH cash method last fall.. it worked but i deemed myself lucky.

Yeah, I know.... and my apologies to @Mark Brogan for my reaction. I'd agree that it would be a good move if there was very little equity. Heck, I'd even gladly take the credit blemish if we're talking less than 100K. But this is an SFR in California that's being rented out. So presumably, unless the OP is bleeding tons of cash even while rented, I think we're talking about a substantial amount of equity.

Since the OP needs to move back into the property, I just think the best thing to do is work closely with the lawyer and methodically do everything necessary toward the ultimate goal, which is the Sheriff's Notice to Vacate. Unfortunately, with Covid and the bottleneck of evictions we already have, it's going to take some time. Another alternative is to raise cash from friend and family members in order to be in a position to offer cash for keys. I'd certainly contribute if a Go Fund Me page was set up for the OP.

Just a few additional random thoughts:

I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough to say that nothing described in this thread is truly actionable. What I mean is, there is a lot of talk about reporting the other lawyer, getting a better lawyer, threatening with disbarment, reporting to police about the death threat...etc. None of these will amount to anything and some of these suggestions will cost the OP a lot of money, time and emotional wear and tear.

There is also talk about starting a media campaign, etc. I don't mean to be a downer, but this won't amount to much either unless the OP is willing to put in a huge amount of time and have a lot of folks helping her.

EXACTLY its a bunch of puffing.. not that its bad advice and for sure works in other states But CA OR WA are simply different markets so what can happen in other areas simply cannot happen here.. starting with the price of a Lawyer in this area.

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Adriana Arnold

OP

Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes

5y

@Joe Splitrock Thank you for your input! I am not sure if their lawyer if free per se, but what I do know is that he works as an adjunct professor at a state university and I am considering making public his statements of death threats and illegal marijuana farm being "nothing" . He definitely fits the profile of "I fight for the poor people against the evil landlord", yet had he taken a few minutes to look into the evidence, he would have realized that the "poor people" is us.

However, all core anticapitalists believe that the enemy of Western societies is capital ownership rather than inadequate use and distribution of social resources. During this Covid time, it's safe to assume that eight people of which six are unauthorized to occupy the premisses have been able to assemble a nice little fortune collecting any social resource that was made available to them (unemployment money, stimulus checks, etc.) while the capitalist (me) spent last three semesters teaching 10 college classes each semester on Zoom from the same room my children are doing their own online classes. When I got Covid, I had to keep teaching so I don't lose my pay, and scaring my students as I could not breath.

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Ongoing eviction from hell in California

Ongoing eviction from hell in California

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§22.1 I. PURPOSE OF MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

§22.1 I. PURPOSE OF MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT