Ongoing eviction from hell in California

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Ongoing eviction from hell in California

Adriana Arnold
Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes

Hello All, 

I am brand new to BiggerPockets and find it to be a great place comprised of helpful advice and expertise. I am a landlord of a single family home in California that has run my property as a charity rather than a business and I am paying for it now. I rented my single family home to a couple on a Month to Month rental agreement  that said that they had three kids in college and none of them were on the lease. They were overall late on rent, the rent is 40% below the market value, they would be  complaining about issues but never being available for the contractors to come and fix those issues.....

Covid comes and they stop paying and would pay 20% of the rent every three to four months. This January, we get a message from them that the roof is leaky and  after having given a 24h notice we arrange for a professional roofer to inspect the roof two days later.My husband shows up at the house with the roofer and one of the sons comes out and tells my husband that he can't come in but only the roofer. So my mother-in-law who was also there said that she is about to call the sheriff and the son lets them in. 

During this visit, we discover that in addition to original tenants, there are 6 extra people living there.  It's a 3 bedroom house. The two sons, sons' girlfriends, one year old child and an elderly woman, mother of the female tenant. The kitchen has a bed in it, and the rooms have blankets over furniture and no light. I immediately told my husband that I will contact a lawyer to start the eviction procedure for unauthorized occupants.The tenants' lawyer responds, and in his response fills out every box in the denials section, from habitability issues to retaliation passing  rent control, etc. and of course ask for a jury trial. 

Our court date was today, and we were informed three days ago that a son of the tenants is making a tutorial for marijuana farm cultivation in our backyard. We receive 25 short videos of him going step by step from taking marijuana plants from the kitchen to using welding generator to start building the farm structure in the backyard. The city representative went to the house but they didn't open the door so he left a notice of violation on the door and informed us about it. We wanted the city to dismantle the structure as all this was on social media in public view possibly making our home a target of marijuana related home invasion, or any other crime. Today, the city officer went their with the sheriff and all the marijuana was removed and the tenants were very friendly and compliant. Their criminal backgrounds were clean. Of course, they had two days to remove all the incriminating evidence. 

Today we show up in court, and our lawyer tells us that considering the backlog in courts, it may take up to 6 months to actually get the jury trial and that the tenants are holding us hostages so we can keep losing money, we should make them a settlement offer. As we need the house so we can move in as we live currently in one room within my husband's father's house where I teach my classes online while my kids are on Zoom at the same time, we said that we are willing to forgive $25 000 rental debt and give them two extra months to leave. Their lawyer said that they may consider our offer if we give them an extra year of rent free stay at the house!!!! So pretty much two and a half year of free rent to four generations of a family that has no right per lease to be there.  

Their lawyer refuses the offer arguing that since they were able to deposit $500 in money order onto my account we have waived our eviction rights..of course, I had returned their money orders with a letter stating that we have not waived our rights to evict and I closed my bank account.  Then the lawyer says that growing marijuana is not a big deal, and that being threatened by one of the sons is not a big deal either, the son told us that he knew where we lived and made the sign of cutting one's throat while looking at my husband.  

Our lawyer said that in 30 years of her career, she hasn't seen anything like this and that marijuana farm tutorial on its own deserves to earn them an automatic eviction, but since they asked for a jury trial the judge has to approve it.  

I am wondering if any of you had any similar experience and what advice would you have on how to deal with this situation? 

Thank you! 

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Jeff Willis
CA & NV · Member since 2019 · 215 posts · 378 votes
5y

I have been there and done that. I had a similar situation at an SFR I owned in Redding, CA. There are a few things that you need to assume to be fact: (FYI My wife is a bankruptcy attorney and also deals in real estate)

  • It will take a year to get them out;
  • They are not paying for the attorney. There are groups of attorneys that provide free services to tenants. They are radical and will do everything to cost you money in attorney fees in hopes of settling and paying their fees;
  • When they leave, your house will be destroyed entirely and unlivable;
  • You will never collect a penny from them for back rent or damages, so offering to forgive rent is meaningless. Once out, they will file bankruptcy, and your claim goes away. You can never collect anything;
  • Landlords have no rights in California;
  • Expect to spend a substantial amount to get them out finally;
  • Your attorney is limited in what they can do, but they do have good advice on what you can do

What to do? Cash talks, rent forgiveness, does not because they will never pay the back rent, so basically, you forgive nothing. I had an attorney, and they agreed to my actions but had no knowledge of it (plausible deniability). The attorney can't do it because if the tenant is represented, they must go through their attorney. Those rules do not bind me; I can contact the tenant directly.

What I did, I got $10,000 in $100 bills. I met with the tenant, showed them the pile of money, and said, "this is yours if you move in 10 days and sign these forms. The forms were a 1542 waiver and dismissal of their countersuit, substitution of attorney (substituting their attorney for Pro-Per). I told them that once they are out, I will hand them the cash. I mentioned that if their attorney gets involved, the deal is off. It worked. Cash talks, and cash is king. In your case, it may be more than 10K that is required. I filed the dismissal and substitution with the court. Their attorney was pissed and threatened me, but nothing he could do; he no longer represented them. I even offered to provide U-HAUL trucks and drivers.

What they didn't know is that I transferred all utilities into my name. As the property owner, I can do that. I did have to pay their delinquent accounts, but now I have control of the utilities.

I spent about 20K total in getting them out. Make your sure liability and fire insurance is current.

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  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @Jay Hinrichs, thank you for your wise words! Indeed, our ultimate goal is to move into the house. We have rented the property in 2013 because we were living outside of the country for the good part of the year. The bureaucratic redtape allows for this type of situations, when the tenant lawyer can claim any type defense of his response knowing that material evidence won't be found to corroborate those claims. 

    I am seriously thinking about starting a GoFund me page to raise money to cover attorney costs and refuse to give into the extortion. My husband was a professional track and field athlete who worked really hard to get himself out of precarity in Long Beach, went to a great college, was a NCAA champion, broke a world record, etc.  and put all his career earnings into this property. He followed the American Dream model Manuel to the letter. 

    It comes down to trying to prove that the judicial system is functional if armed with patience or dysfunctional. Personally, I would rather pay the attorney fees and go through with the entire process than not be able to sleep at night because I paid immoral and irresponsible individuals to restitute what should have not beed held hostage in the first place. If we were to settle and I had to give them a letter saying that there were good tenants, I could not ethically live with that. 

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

    @Jay Hinrichs, thank you for your wise words! Indeed, our ultimate goal is to move into the house. We have rented the property in 2013 because we were living outside of the country for the good part of the year. The bureaucratic redtape allows for this type of situations, when the tenant lawyer can claim any type defense of his response knowing that material evidence won't be found to corroborate those claims. 

    I am seriously thinking about starting a GoFund me page to raise money to cover attorney costs and refuse to give into the extortion. My husband was a professional track and field athlete who worked really hard to get himself out of precarity in Long Beach, went to a great college, was a NCAA champion, broke a world record, etc.  and put all his career earnings into this property. He followed the American Dream model Manuel to the letter. 

    It comes down to trying to prove that the judicial system is functional if armed with patience or dysfunctional. Personally, I would rather pay the attorney fees and go through with the entire process than not be able to sleep at night because I paid immoral and irresponsible individuals to restitute what should have not beed held hostage in the first place. If we were to settle and I had to give them a letter saying that there were good tenants, I could not ethically live with that. 

    I hear ya sometimes you just have to make a stand..  these are quite painful lessons.  Not every day occurances but not rare either. 

    one thing by sharing on BP the newer landlords can learn some tricks of the trade you always want to talk to landlord 2 or 3 properties removed from the last one.. your dead on .. current land lords many times will say anything to get rid of people just human nature.

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    0Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @Carl Mathis, thank you for your support! My approach is that, ok let's say California is so tenant friendly that the judge may even decide to put the deed of our house into tenants name, at least, I would have tried to fight it. 

    I have had so many tribulations in my life from living trough a civil war as a child, being a child refugee in a foreign country, living all over the world including two years in Saudi Arabia( great experience) carrying out a pregnancy while dealing with stage 4 cancer, going through chemo and losing my intellectual abilities, currently being my blind father-in-law caretaker on top of everything else, so I may lose this trial but I will not give up.  

    2Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Is it possible to sell the house as is for good enough profit? 

    0Reply
  • Tony Kim
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 844 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Carl Mathis:

    Yelling discouragement from the sidelines is shameful. If you don't have anything POSITIVE and supportive to say GTFO. The OP is having a hard enough time as it it is without people, "Not trying to be a downer" BEING A DOWNER. I do not give an *** rats if anything is 'actionable' the key is to be proactive, positive and BELIEVE something good can happen. Do all of the above and keep at it. WTH? Some people on this site are so dumb. They only way anything good can happen is by sustained positive action based on the powerful belief that something will eventually happen.

    What is with the moronic assertion that anyone with a vacant property is a 'professional investor' and needs to 'run it like a business or its their fault' - is this serious? Do you hear yourself? What is the matter with you people? Seriously? Have you ever read any psychology / motivation / self-help / life coaching? FFS - STOP HELPING. Your word for the day is SOCIOPATH - look it up then sit in silence for an hour reflecting on how you 'contribute' to society.

    "We're going to lose, its all hopeless" No thanks - this site really needs a block feature.

    The only one yelling is you. I'm not offering discouragement. Just saying the focus should be on getting these nightmare tenants out as soon as possible. Some folks have a real problem with basic comprehension.... or just too stupid to see the forest for the trees.

    2Reply
  • Elin Anderson
    New to Real Estate · NY · Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Adriana Arnold Seems like they are causing you a lot of issues, keep us updated and I hope you resolve this.

    1Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Tony Kim:
    Originally posted by @Mark Brogan:

    @Adriana Arnold simple solution if u have a mortgage on the home just let the bank have the home and let them deal with tenants, in crazy Cali u screwed bad, that’s what I would do cause it’s going to be a disaster for you

    JFC, this has got to be the dumbest and most disingenuous thing I've read on BP.

    @Adriana, you've been given a lot of good advice by some other posters. I also live and own rentals in CA, specifically Los Angeles where we have a lot of 'professional' renters and a lot of sleazy legal aids who advise these tenants on the best way to stay in the property as long as possible and then their fee is essentially a cut of the cash-for keys payment. They are just waiting for you to make a mistake that will allow them to stay in your property longer. Their whole goal is to milk the situation for as long as possible. In order to maintain a coherent strategy and not make any mistakes during this process, I think you have to make sure your lawyer specializes or has a lot of experience with tenant evictions as the process can be very nuanced and is highly procedural. I know you want to take action and do whatever you can to speed up the process, but I also think it's important not to inadvertently delay things by doing something that you shouldn't have.

    Tony I hear what your saying but you would be surprised how many choose the walk away on rentals when faced with this if they have very little equity.. in CA its a non recourse state so its a bad blemish on credit.. But if you dont have the money to fight it and dont have the money for cash for keys its just dying from a thousand cuts.. the other thing to do potentially  it sounds like they owned it for a while  maybe a heloc to raise cash for keys and legal ..  Or sell to an investor and get some cash and move on and let a hard nosed investor go at these people..   Very sad state of affairs.. I got one tenant out in PDX using the FLASH cash method last fall.. it worked but i deemed myself lucky.

    This was my thinking 100%. 

    0Reply
  • Elin Anderson
    New to Real Estate · NY · Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Jeff Willis hopefully this helps her, I didn’t know about a 1542, perhaps that will come in Handy someday.

    0Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @Matt R. due to Covid restrictions, we cannot put the house for sale through an agency as the house is tenant occupied and the process of eviction is in course. I also spoke with some foreign investors but they got put off because of the tenants' occupancy. 

    0Reply
  • Janine Williams
    Member since 2020 · 1 post · 1 vote
    5y
    That is so horrible and I am so sorry. I have no words.
    1Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

    @Matt R. due to Covid restrictions, we cannot put the house for sale through an agency as the house is tenant occupied and the process of eviction is in course. I also spoke with some foreign investors but they got put off because of the tenants' occupancy. 

    Interesting. Who said you can't sell it during covid? 

    0Reply
  • Carlo C.
    Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    I don't know why my previous response got deleted but good luck!

    0Reply
  • Eric Bilderback
    Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Tushar P.

    Probably not.  Although I think finding a loser that makes hard working peoples life hell would be easy to find.  Probably not as much here on BP where most folks seem to be taking their life into their own hands.  What we need is someone that considers themselves a victim and therefore can justify doing whatever is necessary from getting off their own ***.  Places like CA not only have those these people in abundance they are used and don’t even know it.    Maybe we could give a professional tenet a bong hit to tell us what it would take to get him to leave in this situation.

    1Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    One of the advantages of owning in CA is there can be long stretches in time where there are more buyers than sellers sort of speak. A sfr can be relatively easy to exit even with tenant issues. One could consider that part of the initial value essentially and one paid for that upfront. Now maybe a time to call on that inherent CA cache. 

    1Reply
  • Keith Boley
    Rental Property Investor · Lompoc, CA · Member since 2010 · 197 posts · 183 votes
    5y

    Sorry about the issues.  

    I apologize if this has been asked or answered already.  Have you checked your lease to ensure they have the right to a jury trial?  

    Language is our lease:  parties waive the right to trial by jury

    We often forget all the language in our rental agreements - May be worth a look?

    1Reply
  • Derrick Dill
    Investor · Hawaiian Gardens, CA · Member since 2015 · 308 posts · 386 votes
    5y

    99 marijuana plants allowed in California? 

    Can't sell your house due to COVID/eviction?

    Can't evict cause you accepted their deposit?

    You're getting a lot of misinformation. None of these are true. 

    The courts are backed up, but they're open. Keep working on the eviction process, talk to your local news and tell them your story (start a gofundme after your story is released), pursue them in small claims court after they're evicted.

    Is it going to be a long drawn-out process? yes. When they get evicted, their credit score is ruined, it goes on their record.  TAKE THEM TO COURT

    1Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @Keith Boley, thank you for your input. Apparently, even if there is a jury trial waiver in a lease, it can be voided by a judge, in California, at least. My lease does not have a jury trial waiver. 

    But it does have clear points on no sublease or extra occupants without prior written permission or no illegal activities, or property damage, but apparently that does not count. 

    The reason the judge granted the jury trial is because the tenants' lawyer invoked inhabitability and retaliation, magic words in California. If at least the bureaucratic redcap would require the defense lawyer to show some material evidence to support these claims. So the house is so inhabitable that they moved six extra people in and want an extra year of free rent while already owing 14 months of rent. 

    The house is located in a nice queue-de-sac neighborhood and is estimated at over 700k. 

    0Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @Derrick Dill, thank you for your input! We are already in court. This week was our first appearance. The judge wants us to settle and avoid the jury trial. He told us to come next week  to see if any settlement could be reached. We got a court date relatively fast and the 2nd court date as well. 

    I have contacted two agencies about selling the house but tenants won't let anyone in to inspect the property, so it might be better for us to just wait things out as we want to move into the house. We live in the city and our children hope to stay in the same school. 

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

    @Derrick Dill, thank you for your input! We are already in court. This week was our first appearance. The judge wants us to settle and avoid the jury trial. He told us to come next week  to see if any settlement could be reached. We got a court date relatively fast and the 2nd court date as well. 

    I have contacted two agencies about selling the house but tenants won't let anyone in to inspect the property, so it might be better for us to just wait things out as we want to move into the house. We live in the city and our children hope to stay in the same school. 

    Keep in mind Tenants have no right to keep U out of the house as long as you give the proper notice..  if you need to show up with the police.  I would document this and write your congressmen and senator as well.  

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    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • David P.
    Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    5y

    I'm currently screening tenants for my duplex as we speak and reading all of this is scary.

    Question- did the family pass all your checks and balances prior to moving in? Did you talk to any of their prior landlords. 

    1Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @David P., well I overlooked some things..... only the parents filled out the application and I believed that they would be the only ones living in the house. They met the income requirement and I fell for their sad story to explain fluctuations in their credit scores. I would believe what past landlords say only if there is a possibility to verify their rental payment history. I now see how strict screening process makes a huge difference even though individual character/culture/beliefs/values and norms determine how people behave. An honest person won't destroy third party's property, go months without paying rent and moving in their entire immediate family and act like they didn't do anything wrong. 

    1Reply
  • David P.
    Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    5y

    You can still sell the house even though buyer is not able to enter. The buyer will most likely be an investor. In this red hot market you can probably still make a decent amount of profit to someone will to make this their problem. If it was me I would of tried selling it. If you bought it long time ago it probably went up alot since. You may not get top dollar but the market been so inflated in recent year that even if you get 80 percent of current market price it's considered high for what it was 2years ago before this buying spree started.

    1Reply
  • David P.
    Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Adriana Arnold:

    @David P., well I overlooked some things..... only the parents filled out the application and I believed that they would be the only ones living in the house. They met the income requirement and I fell for their sad story to explain fluctuations in their credit scores. I would believe what past landlords say only if there is a possibility to verify their rental payment history. I now see how strict screening process makes a huge difference even though individual character/culture/beliefs/values and norms determine how people behave. An honest person won't destroy third party's property, go months without paying rent and moving in their entire immediate family and act like they didn't do anything wrong. 

    How low was the credit if you remember? I actually just rented out my unit to a family. I had them fill out a Mysmartmove and they had a resident score of 785 with no credit problems. I was a little worried because they are business owners and own a convinence store here in my town. I visited the store and they been in business since 07. From the few occasions I met the family I was told it was a family of 5 but upon showing up the first day to meet them I saw another son that was never mentioned. Im still not exactly sure if he is going live there but reading your story i got a little scared since that is not a good impression of meeting someone else there that wasn't there during all the other visits. 

    0Reply
  • Adriana Arnold
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 30 posts · 43 votes
    5y

    @David P., the mistake I made is that when I moved out of the country, I did not hire a property manager nor increase rent. I definitely did not have a business approach but rather a charity one. We learn so much from small conversations with people. Based on what you know about your tenants, you seem to have made a right decision even if the son ends up living there, you can ask to do a background check on him if he is an adult and add him to the lease.

    0Reply
  • Stacy Nickerson
    Lakeland, FL · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Oh, my goodness.  I am speechless.  I really do not have anything to add that many of the people have not already added.  I do thank you for sharing.  I have two rentals and never encountered anything like this. I have been renting them for 10 years. I am in Florida and I do my own tenant screening, background checks, and management.  I assume that all of my applicants have bad credit because I rent to "C"-type tenants.  The worst tenant situation I had was when I had a property manager.  They didn't know the law and wouldn't do inspections.  The second worst we had was a hoarder family that we felt charitable towards because the wife kept getting sick every time we wanted to end the lease.  When I wouldn't renew their lease after 3 years of back and forth clean-up/hoarding, they left what they didn't want and said "keep the deposit."  When I screen the applicants,  I always check out their family members and ASSUME that all of them will come to live there.  People with decent public record information always try to "slide" in friends, family, or others.  However, something in the public records always gives them away.  I imagine that you could not use my process if you have many rentals.  However, you may try to go through their information with a fine-tooth come when you get down to the last few that you think you will be renting to.  I don't believe I would have a rental in California based upon what you have said.  Florida can be friendly to tenants, but I find that it is pretty protective of landlords if you know the law.  I rarely evict or have a holdover tenant.  However, my properties are not nearly worth as much as your property is worth.  Your story makes me really think.  I never thought about leaving for an extended period of time and I wouldn't leave my property in the hands of a property management company.  Know that you are supported.  

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