I was considering to accept a tenant from section 8 program. But inspector failed my unit with many un-professional reasons. And they force me to fix the problems without sending me the report, and accept this tenant. Is it ok to decide not to fix them?
I received phone call from this inspector and later from section 8 program. They threaten me that I violate the discrimination law if I decide not fix these problems and not accept this tenant. It seems like if I accept inspection and I have already signed the lease with section 8. Anyone knows what will happen if I do not talk with them anymore? Sue me in the court?
I also feel being racial discriminated during inspection. Because I am immigrate and not good at English, this inspector picked everything he could. The house was bought about one month ago. It has Boston fire department smoke alarm certificate. But it is failed smoke detector. He also ask me to remove a cabinet light that was bought from Home Depot for sink. The bathroom in the basement has no ceiling and door. The inspector requires to install fans, or demolish the bathroom. Will the fan works if no ceiling and door for the bathroom?
Your problem is greater than Boston Housing...HUD requires property inspections and sets the requirements for tenancy. It's their ball, their court. If you don't meet their standards then your property is not eligible for Section 8 tenancy. DONE. The criteria isn't debatable. You can look it up online...again, it's a Federal Requirement.
If you filled out the Request for Tenancy Form, you have accepted that tenant. You have accepted their Voucher and completed the required form to move forward with the transaction. The lease is completed after the inspection which also sets the rental price. And, it is the Request for Tenancy document that schedules the inspection. Know this: you're not paying for the inspection so you're not entitled to demand it.
So here's my take on what you've shared: you don't have a clear understanding of the process and requirements. What you claim to be unreasonable is actually the normal process that all Section 8 landlords participate in. Claiming discrimination is not acceptable...you don't deserve that - but you do have a knowledge gap that may make it appear that you're avoiding something that could come back to haunt you under the Fair Housing Act.
My recommendation: stop positioning yourself as a victim and start over with the caseworker. Apologize for the confusion; share that you were caught off guard by the inspector and the findings; explain that you did not realize that the Tenancy Form was itself a commitment within Housing. Then get educated, fix your property, and move forward - or BOLT. Either way, don't set yourself up for a Fair Housing Claim by keeping things contentious. You simply may not be a good landlord fit for Section 8.
It sounds like you ALREADY signed a contract??? What does it say? Section 8 requires ALL health and safety codes to be up to par. You need a carbon monoxide and smoke detector in the required rooms, that is pretty inexpensive and safe. No one can tell you what to do with a bathroom that we cannot see. When you bought this did you get a mortgage? If you signed with the tenant I'm not sure why you are talking about discrimination. Did you say something to the inspector about the person's race, color, ancestry, national origin, citizenship...? We cannot help or advise you as we don't know what you said.
I did not say anything. I was accused by section 8 for discrimination if I do not fix these problems and do not rent the house to this tenant. I only filled out "Request for Tenancy Approval" form from section8, but they are not lease or contract. Inside this form, it mentions "If you are unable to make the required repairs, please contact the Senior Inspections Coordinator as soon as possible." Now I was told I am discriminanting section 8 tenant if I do not make the required repairs. Though my house has not been approved to by section 8 yet. I just bought this house one month ago, fixed lots of problems according to my buyer home inspection report and insurance company inspection report. But it still failed section 8 inspection extensively. That is why I felted that I am the victim of discrimination. And the inspector also threaten me if I do not make fix, the house is illegal for living. Does that mean the seller was illegal living there for more than 80 years?
It sounds like there is probably some sort of miscommunication. I would strongly advise you to hire an attorney who speaks your native language. As you're probably aware, the English language can be very difficult to understand with the same word meaning multiple things.
If the items pointed out are safety issues, you need to get them fixed regardless of whether you rent the place or live there. It's very possible that many things do not pass current code, but were perfectly legal for the prior owner as they were either grandfathered in or were up to code when they bought the place. They only need to be addressed when the unit is sold or converted to a rental.
Section 8 is different in every area. I have no idea what Boston requires. It is possible that they require you fix everything pointed out in a Section 8 inspection regardless of what you do. Your attorney will know this answer. If what you interpreted is correct, have your attorney contact Section 8.
Boston city does not require certificate of fitness for rental properties. The purpose of inspector say this to me is to imply that I am in big trouble to rent this property out without making repairs. I own multiple properties in Boston area for more than 10 years. Provided and still providing houses to tenant from Metro Housing program from different towns, except Boston. This is the first time I feel threaten and forced to do something I do not want to do. Meanwhile I am accused to discriminate to someone else. Dose landlord have no right to select tenant anymore? What is happening to this country now?
An owner occupant can live in a house with lots of deferred maintenance, even code violations and maybe no one ever sees the mess.
A landlord is held to higher standard. Have someone help you write an email to Senior Inspection Coordinator that you mention to cancel the whole plan. Find another tenant. You are required to keep the unit safe, habitable and to code read here https://www.mass.gov/info-details/tenant-rights#habitability-rights-
The main dispute is the problem in the basement bathroom. He request to install a vent in the bathroom that does not have ceiling and door, or demolish the bathroom. I just fixed this bathroom and make everything works. If you learns physics in high school, to vent this kind of bathroom is same as to vent whole basement. I told him that this bathroom is not for tenant use. It is only for me in case of emergency. The problems in the unit are minor that can are already be fixed.
And this inspector hold the inspection report for long time. Even after I called him to ask for the report. I still could not get it. So I gave up and rented unit to different people. Now he escalate the case to their attorney. The attorney sent me the inspection report that is after I already signed the lease with different tenant. But they still push me to rent the unit to section 8 tenant.
The problem is that some states do not allow landlords to "discriminate" against some forms of income, ie section 8. This seems to effectively mean that if you do not accept section 8 you could be prosecuted for discrimination. If you don't want to accept section 8, the safest thing to do may be to disqualify a prospective tenant for a reason other than for having section 8. If you have already accepted a tenant who has section 8 then you may have to comply with their requirements. That's an unfortunate rule in some states. In states like TX landlords are specifically allowed to discriminate based upon source of income like section 8.
Interesting. If I discriminate section 8 tenant, I would not accept this tenant application at the beginning. The problem is Metro Housing has not approve my landlord application yet. Is it true if the house is too old, my properties was built in 1900, and have to demolish and rebuild new in order to pass section 8 inspection, I still have to agree? Or will be sued for discrimination?
But this experience really make me to re-consider if I would accept any section 8 application again in the future.
Interesting. If I discriminate section 8 tenant, I would not accept this tenant application at the beginning. The problem is Metro Housing has not approve my landlord application yet. Is it true if the house is too old, my properties was built in 1900, and have to demolish and rebuild new in order to pass section 8 inspection, I still have to agree? Or will be sued for discrimination?
But this experience really make me to re-consider if I would accept any section 8 application again in the future.
If you would literally have to demolish and rebuild to meet section 8 requirements, obviously you wouldn't do that. Whether they sue you or not. Yes, as usually happens, laws designed to "protect" people (eg discrimination) end up indirectly harming those they meant to protect.
Before filled out Metro Housing Request for Tenancy Approval (RFTA) form, I talked with case manager. If I signed this paper, dose it mean I have to lease this unit to this tenant no matter what happen? I was told "NO". Even after the house passed inspection, I still have the right to select the tenant. I am not obligate to sign the lease with this tenant.
@Zhenwei Chu, I would sell the property and get away from section 8. It seems like you have irritated the wrong person at the housing office. Dallas Housing Authority is the same way , very problematic but all the area’s suburban housing agencies are wonderful, solutions oriented. Maybe you can find a suburban housing agency and work with them. If you are having this bad experience before your tenant even moves in your unit, it will only get worse. Consult an attorney and get out of this dangerous situation. The current administration is not your friend. It’s going to get a lot worse. The current racial climate makes it too dangerous to try and provide decent housing. They will always hold the race card in a game you can’t win and should abort. You may not understand how politics and racism are used to destroy people. You don’t want to be their next victim. They are out for revenge for past injustice you and I had nothing to do with. I just got here. I didn’t ever have slaves. Did you?
A bathroom is required to have a fan or a window. If the basement bath doesn't have a window, just go ahead and install a fan even if it is senseless. I wouldn't care for a bathroom without a door, may want to put one on.
Your problem is greater than Boston Housing...HUD requires property inspections and sets the requirements for tenancy. It's their ball, their court. If you don't meet their standards then your property is not eligible for Section 8 tenancy. DONE. The criteria isn't debatable. You can look it up online...again, it's a Federal Requirement.
If you filled out the Request for Tenancy Form, you have accepted that tenant. You have accepted their Voucher and completed the required form to move forward with the transaction. The lease is completed after the inspection which also sets the rental price. And, it is the Request for Tenancy document that schedules the inspection. Know this: you're not paying for the inspection so you're not entitled to demand it.
So here's my take on what you've shared: you don't have a clear understanding of the process and requirements. What you claim to be unreasonable is actually the normal process that all Section 8 landlords participate in. Claiming discrimination is not acceptable...you don't deserve that - but you do have a knowledge gap that may make it appear that you're avoiding something that could come back to haunt you under the Fair Housing Act.
My recommendation: stop positioning yourself as a victim and start over with the caseworker. Apologize for the confusion; share that you were caught off guard by the inspector and the findings; explain that you did not realize that the Tenancy Form was itself a commitment within Housing. Then get educated, fix your property, and move forward - or BOLT. Either way, don't set yourself up for a Fair Housing Claim by keeping things contentious. You simply may not be a good landlord fit for Section 8.
And this is why I do not accept section 8. Why would I partner with someone who has no financial stake, will probably side with a tenant over me, and really looks down upon me as a partner?
I was considering to accept a tenant from section 8 program. But inspector failed my unit with many un-professional reasons. And they force me to fix the problems without sending me the report, and accept this tenant. Is it ok to decide not to fix them?
I received phone call from this inspector and later from section 8 program. They threaten me that I violate the discrimination law if I decide not fix these problems and not accept this tenant. It seems like if I accept inspection and I have already signed the lease with section 8. Anyone knows what will happen if I do not talk with them anymore? Sue me in the court?
I also feel being racial discriminated during inspection. Because I am immigrate and not good at English, this inspector picked everything he could. The house was bought about one month ago. It has Boston fire department smoke alarm certificate. But it is failed smoke detector. He also ask me to remove a cabinet light that was bought from Home Depot for sink. The bathroom in the basement has no ceiling and door. The inspector requires to install fans, or demolish the bathroom. Will the fan works if no ceiling and door for the bathroom?
Thanks
LoL, I'm appalled at some of the responses in this thread. Someone actually had the gall to ask you if you made a racist remark to the inspector? lol... ignore that stupid question.
At this point, it doesn't really matter what the motive is or whether or not inspector is purposefully giving you a hard time because you speak English as a second language. The best thing you can do is to make the changes listed in the inspection report. The last thing you want to do is get on the city's $hit-list.
You say you have some kind of certificate from the Boston FD. Well, does the smoke alarm work? If the smoke detector failed to work, then you have to fix it.
Where exactly is this cabinet light located? If that was flagged as a violation, then it probably isn't located in the proper place close to the ceiling?
As for the bathroom, just install the most basic type of ventilation fan possible. It's probably a code violation for any bathroom to not have adequate ventilation...even if it is out in the open basement.
To be honest, these don't really seem like big deals. I rent to Section 8 all the time and most of my best tenants are Section 8. I fail initial inspection maybe 25% of the time, but it's usually because I overlooked something. I just slap my forehead and get it fixed quickly. Every city's program is different, but the one in Los Angeles is excellent....I couldn't do without it.
Also, one thing you want to keep in mind.... even if you rent to a non-Section 8 tenant and something bad happens, one of the things that will be examined is whether your unit is up to code. So Section 8 or not, I would encourage you to thank your local agency that's administering the HUD program and make these changes as soon as possible.
When the reinspection is performed, be as gracious and polite as possible and always thank the inspector for his/her time.
And finally, does your unit fall under rent control? If so, then there might be another agency that performs periodic inspections and they will flag the same things.
Thanks all for the replies. Another issue is the inspection was performed on 5/20. I did not get the report until today 6/4. I cannot wait forever and keep the unit vacant, so rent the unit to a different tenant on 6/1. Now the problem is not only the failed issues should be fixed, but also the unit must be rented to this section 8 tenant. Do I have to evict the current tenant? If the inspector hold report for one year, I have to keep the unit vacant for one year?
As I said I worked with Metro Housing in Arlington and Lowell, and have no issue with them.
Thanks all for the replies. Another issue is the inspection was performed on 5/20. I did not get the report until today 6/4. I cannot wait forever and keep the unit vacant, so rent the unit to a different tenant on 6/1. Now the problem is not only the failed issues should be fixed, but also the unit must be rented to this section 8 tenant. Do I have to evict the current tenant? If the inspector hold report for one year, I have to keep the unit vacant for one year?
As I said I worked with Metro Housing in Arlington and Lowell, and have no issue with them.
One word of advice. You need to be patient in real estate, and especially dealing with the city.
One of my properties is vacant for almost half a year now due to permit approval delays from the city. The fact that you already rented to a different tenant when there is a violation notice against you and have a signed contract with the S8 tenant? you're playing with fire here. Right now, i would suggest make those changes as soon as possible so that you're up to code but you might need some legal consultation if the section 8 tenants decides to take you to court.
I don’t think just filling out the RTA (request for tenancy approval) forces you to rent to this tenant.
In the past I had filled out an RTA and the tenant decided to rent another landlord’s apartment. Other times I filled out an RTA and Section8 declined the RTA due to rent being too high. So if both Section8 and the tenant can back out at anytime, why would the Landlord not have the same right of backing out? Where in the RTA does it say that you’re committing to renting only to this applicant? It is just an application.
@Zhenwei Chu cmon man, if you have owned rental property in Boston for ten years you know how 1010 Mass Ave works. Your bathroom doesn't meet code and they flagged you on it. You can add doors and ceilings after they leave they know that, so don't claim they are harrassing you. Sounds like you have unpermitted work and you need to fix it. You are on the radar now. The section 8 discrimination is going to be tricky, they can go after you and the fact pattern can be read a few different ways. And guess what? You just posted evidence of your intent to discriminate on a public forum.
@Eric James Hit the nail on the head. You already accepted the tenant, contingent on rent approval, when you turned in the RFTA.In your state source of income is a protected class and you can't turn somebody down for the sole reason of them having housing voucher. Check to see if they met the required timeline though. In my state, Virginia, income is also a protected class. One of the requirements is that HUD has to give approval in 15 days. Section 8 can never meet this requirement. If Massachusetts has a requirement like that you may have a loophole you can jump through.
I also agree with the other posters that what HUD is asking for is not unreasonable. Every bathroom is required to have a fan or a window. Just install the fan.
These days you can buy a light fixture with a fan built right into it. Easy fix.
And this is why I do not accept section 8. Why would I partner with someone who has no financial stake, will probably side with a tenant over me, and really looks down upon me as a partner?
The point is, in some states you don't have a choice.
