Replacing "Landlord" with "Housing Provider"
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Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
5yThe entire point of language is to communicate. When the language we employ fails to create an understanding between people and further creates a misunderstanding between people, the language is a failed one. The use of ambiguous terms is never helpful for the purpose of clarity, and can be disastrous when used in legislation. Politicians love ambiguous terms and employ them endlessly.
The term "housing provider" does not well describe the property owner within the business of residential rental property. It is ambiguous and suggests a role that is false. I own property and I rent it to people for them to use however, they have provided the housing for themselves, not the other way around. I provide housing for myself and my dependents; my employer does not do that for me, my bank does not do that for me, and the builder who constructed my house does not do that for me - we are not all housing providers, only I am. The term "housing provider" suggests a dependent is involved.
I am a property owner. I provide a leasing opportunity to people who are in need of housing. If anything, we are lease providers and not housing providers. As it turns out, more specific terms for landlord and tenant already exist in the legal world, they are lessor and lessee. Look at that, the terms are specific to exactly what it is we all are doing, in no uncertain terms. Perhaps what's really needed is a lesson in vocabulary.
With all due respect, I think this endeavor is dumb. There is nothing that needs to be solved and further, the suggestion of using the term "housing provider" creates unnecessary ambiguity when the entire rationale for the change according to the OP is to eliminate ambiguity. This is an incredible waste of time and money that in my opinion makes things worse, not better for landlords or tenants or anyone. Frankly, using a term like 'housing provider' in this situation is downright thoughtless and lazy. If it's all that bothersome and persons are bent on making a change, use lessor and lessee. People can Google what those terms mean if they don't already know. Even then though, what about all the legislation that already uses the terms landlord and tenant??? LOL. Is someone going to go back and get all those pieces of legislation changed too? How about the ambiguity of having one term used in the past and another used now and into the future? Will the term "housing provider" be deemed inappropriate in the future and then someone will go back and change everything again? Will we have three different terms for the same thing depending on when the legislation was written? Good grief. Leave well enough alone.
This whole thing stinks of PC BS to me.
116 Replies
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Laura Guy:
Our team in Indiana has hired a lobbyist to represent the interests of housing providers and investors. One of our first objectives is to replace the word "landlord" with "housing provider" in ALL pieces of legislation. The "lords of the land" in history refers to landowners that essentially provided housing and oversaw most aspects of tenants lives. We are housing providers that provide a product/service in exchange for money. That is it. However, we need to find a term that replaces "landlord' for commercial providers as well - any ideas?
I vote for "God of Thunder, Overseer of all under the Heavens" 🤣
Personally, I'm not at all a fan of "housing provider" as it sounds like something that's being given away as a right. I don't see anyone calling Wal-Mart "Cheetos provider". How about "property owner", because that is what we are regardless of the relationship. Sometimes you provide housing in exchange for something other than money, or sometimes for nothing at all or tax benefits, etc.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 691 votes5y
@Laura Guy I like the sound of "housing provider." It has a better connotation! Will the lobbyist be meeting with politicians in DC? If so, is there any way we can help?
I'd love to help in any way I can.
- Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
Never liked 'landlord' or 'tenant'. My rental agreements use 'owner' and 'resident'
- Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 144 votes5y
@Jeffrey Donis there is legislation that is specifically geared towards commercial space providers only, so we need a way to differentiate that from "housing provider". We are lobbying for legislation within the state of Indiana - but I'd be happy to collaborate or share what we're doing if you want to do something similar in NC?
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
The entire point of language is to communicate. When the language we employ fails to create an understanding between people and further creates a misunderstanding between people, the language is a failed one. The use of ambiguous terms is never helpful for the purpose of clarity, and can be disastrous when used in legislation. Politicians love ambiguous terms and employ them endlessly.
The term "housing provider" does not well describe the property owner within the business of residential rental property. It is ambiguous and suggests a role that is false. I own property and I rent it to people for them to use however, they have provided the housing for themselves, not the other way around. I provide housing for myself and my dependents; my employer does not do that for me, my bank does not do that for me, and the builder who constructed my house does not do that for me - we are not all housing providers, only I am. The term "housing provider" suggests a dependent is involved.
I am a property owner. I provide a leasing opportunity to people who are in need of housing. If anything, we are lease providers and not housing providers. As it turns out, more specific terms for landlord and tenant already exist in the legal world, they are lessor and lessee. Look at that, the terms are specific to exactly what it is we all are doing, in no uncertain terms. Perhaps what's really needed is a lesson in vocabulary.
With all due respect, I think this endeavor is dumb. There is nothing that needs to be solved and further, the suggestion of using the term "housing provider" creates unnecessary ambiguity when the entire rationale for the change according to the OP is to eliminate ambiguity. This is an incredible waste of time and money that in my opinion makes things worse, not better for landlords or tenants or anyone. Frankly, using a term like 'housing provider' in this situation is downright thoughtless and lazy. If it's all that bothersome and persons are bent on making a change, use lessor and lessee. People can Google what those terms mean if they don't already know. Even then though, what about all the legislation that already uses the terms landlord and tenant??? LOL. Is someone going to go back and get all those pieces of legislation changed too? How about the ambiguity of having one term used in the past and another used now and into the future? Will the term "housing provider" be deemed inappropriate in the future and then someone will go back and change everything again? Will we have three different terms for the same thing depending on when the legislation was written? Good grief. Leave well enough alone.
This whole thing stinks of PC BS to me.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Jeffrey Donis:
@Laura Guy I like the sound of "housing provider." It has a better connotation! Will the lobbyist be meeting with politicians in DC? If so, is there any way we can help?
I'd love to help in any way I can.
...and I like the sound of shamma lamma ding dong...but it might not be the best term to use in certain circumstances to describe certain things - lol
As far as a better connotation, I completely disagree and would say it has a much, much worse connotation, which is exactly why it's such a bad choice of term.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 144 votes5y
@Account ClosedThank you for your thoughts. I think we will have to agree to disagree. The media paints us in a very bad light, and government involvement only makes the matters worse. A very, very common practice, in all areas of business, is rebranding - and that is what myself and my team are trying to do. The product I provide to my residents is a house. Therefore, a more accurate depiction of what I do is "housing provider".
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
This isn't my creation but I read an article early on that made it seem like landlord was a negative term and gave me the idea lessor/ leasee, works for both commercial and residential.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Laura Guy:
@Account ClosedThank you for your thoughts. I think we will have to agree to disagree. The media paints us in a very bad light, and government involvement only makes the matters worse. A very, very common practice, in all areas of business, is rebranding - and that is what myself and my team are trying to do. The product I provide to my residents is a house. Therefore, a more accurate depiction of what I do is "housing provider".
You are not being accurate at all. And when it comes to legislation, it is important for everyone that it is written accurately.
You provide an opportunity for people to purchase rights of use. That is what you have for sale. The house is not for sale. And because you are selling the rights and not offering them free of charge, you are not a housing provider, your tenant is.
Using the term Housing Provider to describe the landlord is downright offensive really. Much worse than the term landlord I'd say. What is it about the term landlord anyways that you believe is so horrible? The "lord" part? I'll tell you one thing, it's not really inaccurate. Have you taken a poll? Done any research? Or does it just "feel" right.
So if rebranding and image is really what you people are searching for, perhaps take some free feedback and give it another think. I suggest an honest approach will go the furthest to attain a better image for yourself and the industry while conversely, trying to employ silly meaningless ambiguous words will only add to any distrust that may already exist.
And as far as using the term in legislation, i dunno...hopefully someone else will step in and see the blatant language error.
Lessor/Lessee
Property Owner/Renter
Landlord/Tenant
Housing Provider/Housing ??? Recipient?
- 5yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Account Closed I do like lessor and lessee. It is not used in a confrontational way these days but I hadn't thought about that difference.
@Laura Guy If you want to separate things out you can say residential lessor. It is the legal term and this is legislation. housing provider does sound a little weird to me.
- 5yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Just say owner. Housing provider sounds more like a faceless company. People need to stop focusing on the name and on the actions. Otherwise I like the suggestion of lessor and lessee. More accurate.
- Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 22 votes5y
when i was homelesss for 6 months no one provided me a home but when i got back on my feet and got myself a job and yes i got myself a job no one provided me with one i scrapped and i saved and eventaully i was able to rent an apartment and guess what no one provided me one how f'ing offensive i earned that little crappy studio but it was mine i earned it and now i own a home and guess what no one provided that for me either i can't tell if you are just trying to solve a problem that doesnt exsist or if you are trying to create a problem so you can rush in with the solutoin if you look up the definition for landlord on dictionary you will discover this isnt the year 1400 it is 2021 and the definition and meaning and understanding of what the word means has changed since its origion go aehad go and look it up it couldnt be more clear this is not what the government needs to be focused on this is not what politicans need to be lobbied about this is not a real issue in a world that has real and immediate concerns and as for wallmart and cheetos wallmart doest provide cheetos but you can go and buy them with your money they are not a food provider they are a grocery store but they for darn sure dont provide them i have never gone into a wallmart and they hand you cheetos and no way owner will pass mustar can you imagine the outcry if a tenant is to call their housing provider their owner you know your life is a good life when this is an area of concern please find a better and more productive way to give back to your community becuase this won't help or change a single life and for anyone who has been in my position before it is offensive as heck
- Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
I think the terms landlord and tenant are well understood and creating euphemisms for them isn't going to change the resentment, entitlement attitudes and derision that some view the "haves" with. I'm not embarrassed to be called a landlord and don't view myself as some superior being lording it over the little people. It's a business we operate. We provide a product that people can acquire from us or someone else. People can either rent a property or purchase a property in this mostly free country. Changing the words things are called is akin to tearing down historical items and pretending "it never happened".
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
I wish I was a LANDLORD because then if I needed a nonpaying tenant to disappear as a lord, I could just do it. But alas I am not a lord at all.
The media does not paint landlords, lessors or whatever you call us in a favorable way because they are owned by people with a by more liberal, social justice viewpoint. It will really not matter what name we are called in the law, the name is not the problem, the value system is just different. So if that is your goal, you might want to look for other ways to remarket.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 144 votes5y
To all if you spewing the hate and criticism @Nick Barber@Lynnette E.@Nick Barber@John Teachout What are you all DOING (besides getting on Bigger Pockets behind the safety of your computer screens) to protect and promote our businesses? Because at this point in time myself and my lobbyist are drafting legislation to protect Hoosiers from any further moratoriums as well as trying to create a marketing campaign to enhance and EDUCATE the public of HOUSING PROVIDERS and the reality of the nature of our businesses. And I'm about $10,000 out of pocket and hundreds of hours of my personal time out. Your attacks are frankly a complete waste of time, poorly constructed, and attention seeking.
- Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
@Laura Guy, in the OP you asked for ideas but apparently didn't actually want any that weren't supportive of your position or actions. Proceed as desired,
- Investor · NorCal · Member since 2015 · 282 posts · 240 votes5yWho is considered a housing provider under the federal Fair Housing Act?
Courts have applied the act to:
- Property owners
- Property managers
- Homeowners
- Condominium associations
- Lenders
- Real estate agents
- State and local governments
- Other people and entities involved in the rental or sale of housing
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Laura Guy:
To all if you spewing the hate and criticism @Nick Barber@Lynnette E.@Nick Barber@John Teachout What are you all DOING (besides getting on Bigger Pockets behind the safety of your computer screens) to protect and promote our businesses? Because at this point in time myself and my lobbyist are drafting legislation to protect Hoosiers from any further moratoriums as well as trying to create a marketing campaign to enhance and EDUCATE the public of HOUSING PROVIDERS and the reality of the nature of our businesses. And I'm about $10,000 out of pocket and hundreds of hours of my personal time out. Your attacks are frankly a complete waste of time, poorly constructed, and attention seeking.
What I do is invest in a small, rural community that is about 65% rentals. Much of the rental properties are older and in poor shape. I buy these properties and rehab them so that they are livable, then rent them. I rent to people who other landlords may not accept as first choice, multi generation families, single parents, young first home without mom and dad-no credit yet.
I also invest in the community. I provide a significant number of presents for the local Christmas for kids program. I support the local schools and their clubs. I have paid for a food pantry (sometimes called a blessing box) to be put up on a main street to provide food, toys for kids, school supplies for those in need. I refurbish it often, as do others in the community. The pantry has a 98% change over in food every 24 hours. I will spend over $5,000 in food and school supplies for that food panty this year.
Personally, I think that landlords will impact their reputation by demonstrating that they are more than just money grabbers taking money out of the community. I think that being involved in the communities we invest in, by giving back in a way that is meaningful for that community will help with our reputation. I think that by showing people that being a landlord is how I make money, but that I am more than that, and I care about people is much better than a marketing strategy and a name change.
- Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Laura Guy:
@Account ClosedThank you for your thoughts. I think we will have to agree to disagree. The media paints us in a very bad light, and government involvement only makes the matters worse. A very, very common practice, in all areas of business, is rebranding - and that is what myself and my team are trying to do. The product I provide to my residents is a house. Therefore, a more accurate depiction of what I do is "housing provider".
You think changing words will make the media like us? Lol
When the term "Bolshevik" fell out of favor in Russia in the 1920's, the extremely violent left changed their moniker to "Communist" to make people happier, but they still killed 10's of millions of people.
- Rental Property Investor · Elkhart, IN · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 52 votes5y
@Laura Guy
As both a Hoosier resident and investor, I understand your goal of attempting to improve the perception of landlords, but respectfully think you are wasting your time and money trying to accomplish it in this way. I personally think your energy/resources would be better served tackling the issues of moratoriums, leading by example of providing quality properties and fair tenant experiences, etc. rather than virtue signaling by utilizing new phrases that likely won’t have any impact on public perception.
I also agree with previous comments that I as a landlord am not a “provider”, but indeed a lessor. I provide for my family and transact with my tenants (both as fairly and professionally as possible at all times). In a quick google search the secondary definition of the word provider yields a definition of “breadwinner”, which seems extremely inaccurate given that my tenants earn their own money and provide their own housing, I simply lease it to them. In my opinion the term “provider” is somewhat demeaning to the dignity of my tenants who provide for themselves. As someone who used to be a tenant, frankly, I find this phrase to be offensive.
I truly wish you good luck with your objective of shifting the narrative, but I disagree with the means of which you are trying to accomplish it. I will be sure to contact both my state representative and state senator and express my opposition to this endeavor.
- Rental Property Investor · PA · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 60 votes5y
@Lynnette E. I agree with that although I provide homes to all levels of people. I believe the Universe sends me those people that need a safe, secure, and clean home. I have and continue to provide homes to all levels of the human race. I have long term tenants very long term tenants and over 30 years very few problem tenants. I have worked with many tenants over the years through tough times some are still with me. My Tenants do not live in fear to ask me for request or repairs. The Local and State Governments are the main causes of rent increases. I am honest with all my tenants here is the source of the increase and I show that I split the increase with them. I feel that's my one way of giving back to the community. It's a shared responsibility with both parties having a vested interest. I treat my properties that if I had to live there I could or rental properties get first priority over my own home for repairs and maintenance. I do not think words or landlord giving back to the community will fully change the perception until and I know there are many whether Landlord or Tenant or just Human Being treat one another with respect and common courtesy to start.
- Investor · Cincinnati/Fort Thomas, KY · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 183 votes5y
@Laura Guy From what I understand the Ohio Real Estate Investors Association (OREIA), Central Ohio real estate investors association (COREE) and greater Cincinnati real estate investors association all also advocate using these terms, especially when discussing with city council the new legislation proposals affecting rental property in city of Cincinnati. If you are interested, I can help you contact the appropriate people.
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