Opinions on long term outlook for Landlords

Opinions on long term outlook for Landlords

Member since 2021 · 1 post · 7 votes

Hello all!  Long time browser, first time poster here. My business partner and I have been slowly accumulating rental properties in Central Ohio for the past 5 years, we currently own 20 units total, mostly single families with an 8 unit as well.  Up until recently I have been CONVINCED this is the best investment for accumulating wealth long term and eventually gaining financial independence through passive income from the rental properties.  I was just looking to get some of your opinions on the long term outlook for landlording/ property ownership, specifically dealing with the current political situation/administration.  I'm talking about the eviction moratoriums, higher taxation across the board, potentially doing away with the 1031 exchange, and in general just much more regulation and laws coming from the current administration - most of which hurt us hard working landlords and property owners.  What I am most concerned about is the direction I think we could possibly go from here... everything just seems to be so far radical left now a days.  Worst case scenario possibly government regulation over rents? Even higher taxes, who knows what else.  Any of you guys have these same concerns? 

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y

I'm optimistic for myself, but less so for others. I think most Landlords will weather this storm, but we'll definitely see a culling of the herd. The government is not your friend. There are some very dumb people running our country, on both sides of the aisle and in every level of government. They make terrible, uneducated decisions that hurt the producers and favor the consumers. These actions will scare off (or chase off) the weakest investors. The rest of us will flex and survive, property prices and rent rates will continue to rise, and we'll be fine.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
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  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    @Mitch Jones welcome to BP. What you are voicing is a concern for sure. Landlording has been around for thousands of years. I doubt it is going to hell anytime soon. Raise your rents, increase all your basic requirements, improve your properties to attract better tenants and screen mercilessly.

    The European landlords have been under the gun for years. Evictions can take forever-or not doable some places, and yet they still have landlords doing well there.

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Remember:  Zillow, Blackrock (or whatever they are called) and other large institutions and funds are not buying up real estate to use as rentals because it is a terrible wealth generator.

    Every market cycle brings its own set of challenges and this is just another.  None of us posting here have ever lived through a time similar to this....just like in 08, none of us lived through a time like that.  This has challenges, new and old, but they too will pass but your assets will remain.  The price will go up and go down, but the assets will remain.  

    I think you were spot on with one change, def. 1 of the best wealth acumination tools out there.  Won't be Dogecoin of course, but still one of the best!  

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 281 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Bjorn Ahlblad:

    @Mitch Jones welcome to BP. What you are voicing is a concern for sure. Landlording has been around for thousands of years. I doubt it is going to hell anytime soon. Raise your rents, increase all your basic requirements, improve your properties to attract better tenants and screen mercilessly.

    The European landlords have been under the gun for years. Evictions can take forever-or not doable some places, and yet they still have landlords doing well there.

    But most are legacy landlords. They inherited their property or paid it off 20 years ago. Very, very few who aren't doing STR vacation rentals are making it in places like Germany now.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Genny Li:
    Originally posted by @Bjorn Ahlblad:

    @Mitch Jones welcome to BP. What you are voicing is a concern for sure. Landlording has been around for thousands of years. I doubt it is going to hell anytime soon. Raise your rents, increase all your basic requirements, improve your properties to attract better tenants and screen mercilessly.

    The European landlords have been under the gun for years. Evictions can take forever-or not doable some places, and yet they still have landlords doing well there.

    But most are legacy landlords. They inherited their property or paid it off 20 years ago. Very, very few who aren't doing STR vacation rentals are making it in places like Germany now.

    Genny, I can't tell you about Germany, but I CAN tell you about Athens, Greece. Plenty of people are making money now, and it's not all legacy inheritances. Short-term rentals are a huge part of the game today n major tourist capitals, sure, but that doesn't mean the game has really changed all that much. Multifamily is a much bigger part of the game in that city than it is here in western Pennsylvania. In 2019, homeownership in Germany was 51.1% In Greece it was 75.4%.  You know where you really can't make any money in rentals? Romania, where home ownership is at 95.8%. The US statistic is 65.4%.

    It's just that the game is different over there.

     

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 281 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Genny Li:
    Originally posted by @Bjorn Ahlblad:

    @Mitch Jones welcome to BP. What you are voicing is a concern for sure. Landlording has been around for thousands of years. I doubt it is going to hell anytime soon. Raise your rents, increase all your basic requirements, improve your properties to attract better tenants and screen mercilessly.

    The European landlords have been under the gun for years. Evictions can take forever-or not doable some places, and yet they still have landlords doing well there.

    But most are legacy landlords. They inherited their property or paid it off 20 years ago. Very, very few who aren't doing STR vacation rentals are making it in places like Germany now.

    Genny, I can't tell you about Germany, but I CAN tell you about Athens, Greece. Plenty of people are making money now, and it's not all legacy inheritances. Short-term rentals are a huge part of the game today n major tourist capitals, sure, but that doesn't mean the game has really changed all that much. Multifamily is a much bigger part of the game in that city than it is here in western Pennsylvania. In 2019, homeownership in Germany was 51.1% In Greece it was 75.4%.  You know where you really can't make any money in rentals? Romania, where home ownership is at 95.8%. The US statistic is 65.4%.

    It's just that the game is different over there.

     The EU is a huge place with a lot of variablity. I was thinking of the places that are insane. I have a friend who was required to make efficiency upgrades and is also forbidden from raising rent. She's been losing money on a small apartment complex for 10 years and can't find a buyer at any price because it cannot have a positive cash flow in her region. She can't even abandon it.  She is legally obligated to keep losing money on it. I don't remember what area in Germany (and have lost contact with her), but don't underestimate how bad it can possibly get. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    I'm optimistic for myself, but less so for others. I think most Landlords will weather this storm, but we'll definitely see a culling of the herd. The government is not your friend. There are some very dumb people running our country, on both sides of the aisle and in every level of government. They make terrible, uneducated decisions that hurt the producers and favor the consumers. These actions will scare off (or chase off) the weakest investors. The rest of us will flex and survive, property prices and rent rates will continue to rise, and we'll be fine.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Munich, Germany · Member since 2018 · 54 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    @Genny Li

    Rentals in Germany can be hard if not done correctly, as in any other place. =]

    If you got in contact with your friend again, please connect me with her. 😬

    Andre.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes
    5y

    Rental game is going to become barbell shaped in America in the near future. A lot will do well, a lot will do poorly and quit before it normalizes again. Keep reserves and tenant screen well and you should be ok. Rents and housing prices will go up because we're in a major housing supply shortage, and as more millennial try to enter the market while baby boomers are not leaving, we'll have an even worse crunch than right now before that normalizes as well. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Have to agree with @Nathan Gesner. 

    I am doing just fine in a state that has one of the most, if not the most, favorable tenant regimes, by governance, statute and court.

    I don't blame my misfortunes on whatever political party is in power. I control what I can control and strive to do my best. From maintenance to screening to saving.

    So far many of my newer tenants who have fled the city enjoy the way that I operate vs. the corporate landlords they left... I suspect that will be a selling point as both political parties try to hand over more inventory to the bigger players.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    I'm a conservative and agree with your commentary but it's kind of convenient to ignore the stimulus and CTC payments that are bolstering our economic occupancy.  The eviction moratorium has had an undeniable negative impact on a small minority of owners...the stimulus has had a massive positive impact for most owners.  Separately, many argue that loose monetary policy actually benefits asset owners...low rates, booming asset prices (stock market and real estate), and inflation.

    Forget about the left and right and focus down the middle on what you can control...keep gobbling up those tax deferred, cash flow monsters!

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    I think many will do as I and many I know have done. a) Exit the Blue state. b) Move to a Red state. c) Find a good conservative county in that state that appears to be landlord and STR friendly. d) Buy properties that can become excellent STRs (to avoid the tenant issue).

    Or if STRs are not your thing, get to a Red State and do your LTRs or MFRs. Failing that, stay in your Blue state and just get smart, hunker down, lawyer up, and play the game to win. It can be done....

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Looks like I am preaching to the choir here, but I believe working class people’s life in America will continue to become more difficult.  I think this is intentional, I also think this will benefit the owners of real estate in short and medium run  So what the hell are you going to do?  Watch Judge Judy or get rich?

     But as Lenin said, “Capitalists will bid on the rope we use to hang them.”  Believing what he said is true, I am less optimistic about the long run!  LOL 

     

  • Investor · Broken Arrow, OK · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 314 votes
    5y

    @Mitch Jones, IMO, your concerns are warranted, but your post kinda answers itself. In real estate, we've always heard about location, location, location. Let's expand that to say it's about location within the United States. As many have referenced in this thread, your best locations are states and localities that are not heavy handed.. For this reason, I have built a large portfolio of both SFH and MFH in Oklahoma, Texas and Florida. Think the reasons are obvious. That is not to say that other areas are not good locations, but I'd prefer to play in areas where government, by and large, let's me provide a good quality product to tenants that respect and respond to good landlord relationships (relationships can not be over-stated no matter the location) and stays out of the way.

    Secondly, I do NOT and doubt I ever will do any type of government real estate subsidy (Section 8 as example) as I do not want to invite any form of government to be my partner.  To expand upon that, I only do Class A and B properties as they tend to attract "aspirational" tenants who eventually want to buy their own house.  Thus, they tend to be more accountable and responsible.  So, location and type of property is more important now than ever before.  As a side note, I did a few class C properties a few years ago (although I did not allow any section 8).  I sold them less than a year later as my experience, although reasonably profitable, was not worth the headaches and hassles of dealing with the tenants they tended to attract.

    Lastly, if the eviction moratorium has taught us anything it is that screening and doing due diligence is more important now than ever before.  In that respect, longer term, I think the EM will have the exact opposite effect that the liberals intended (can you say negative unintended consequences).  Before, landlords like me were willing to take risks with marginal tenants.  The only issues I've had with the EM were the two marginal tenants that, in hindsight, I should not have taken the risks with.  Lesson learned!

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 281 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:

    Looks like I am preaching to the choir here, but I believe working class people’s life in America will continue to become more difficult.  I think this is intentional, I also think this will benefit the owners of real estate in short and medium run  So what the hell are you going to do?  Watch Judge Judy or get rich?

     But as Lenin said, “Capitalists will bid on the rope we use to hang them.”  Believing what he said is true, I am less optimistic about the long run!  LOL 


    Notice my name.  Guess where my husband is from? I have CCP stories that will curl your tonenails. lol.  Communism can never work, but it doesn't mean people won't kill a ton of people trying to make it happen. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    God speed @Genny Li  

    The Cultural Revolution is as terrifying as anything in all of history which is saying quite a lot.  It is not by coincidence that our kids or adults for that matter no so little if anything about it, the Uyghurs, or organ harvesting.

    Take down the CCP baby!

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 281 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:

    God speed @Genny Li  

    The Cultural Revolution is as terrifying as anything in all of history which is saying quite a lot.  It is not by coincidence that our kids or adults for that matter no so little if anything about it, the Uyghurs, or organ harvesting.

    Take down the CCP baby!

     My mother-in-law has fond memories of being in the Red Guard and dragging people out of their houses and beating them on the streets.  She got sent to the farms in the Red Guard crackdown the next year, and she still feels bitter about how unappreciative the CCP became of her loyal and patriotic efforts.  Gives every appearance of being the sweetest little old Chinese lady, too.  If you wonder how ordinary people do horrible things, well...I don't.  

    She also was assigned to the 1975 Banqiao Dam collapse clean up effort.   230,000 people dead.  She had no idea more than a few had died (as it was enormously hushed up).  Just wait until the Three Gorges Dam goes.  They're still not doing anything to fix it, except force Google to alter the Google Earth images so you can't track the progress of the failure anymore.

    On the property front, the Chinese property situation started with the typical government-seizes-everything. Ancient family homes were partitioned and poor families moved in. Soviet-style blocks were built, but without even private baths of any sort--those had to be traveled to--and no hot water whatsoever. 

    What's happening now is that the tofu dreg building projects are pretty much the only thing that Chinese people can invest in, even though all purchases are actually just temporary since the land they are built on reverts to the government 70 years after the sale.  (The government promises not to repossess any building that meets the building codes after 70 years.  Can you hear me cackling like a lunatic at the idea of a modern Chinese residential building lasting 70 years? If you can't, you probably haven't been to China.)  

    Regular people can't invest in a business in China.  Someone with better connections than you will likely take you for a ride--push you out of the company and steal it from you, if it's worth stealing.  You can't invest in the stock market. Most of the financials are fabricated, and everything is a soap bubble, like the Chinese bike rental scam businesses that really existed to make money for the owners. No one trusts the RMB.  So the only thing that's left is property. 

    This means that everyone who has any money wants to buy property.  The CCP loves this because it can inflate its GDP and keep up employment by paying people to build empty apartment blocks and even entire ghost cities. While the CCP originally planned for the ghost cities to be inhabited, having them as essentially a GDP/employment bolstering device works, too.  In any ghost city, almost every unit is actually owned by some investor. It's a game of hot potato, because with the demand for housing, you can always get more out of a property than you bought it for...until suddenly it's worthless and you can't, because it's literally falling apart.

    This has worked as a ratchet on prices for property in China, such that in many not-very-desirable areas in the Chinese cities with employment, a small apartment can be $200k-$500k, where people on average are only making $5k per year!!!! This happened because of entire families with single children cooperating together across generations to keep buying "better"/more expensive properties, churning through them and dropping more money in with each flip up.  It's worse than you think, though, because the building standards are absolutely horrific and the developer abandons the property the moment it can get away with it, and the common areas and structural components are not kept up by anyone.  Elevators killing people is a daily occurrence in China's cities. It only gets headlines when it's something like a lady's head getting chopped off in a hospital as she was being transported on a gurney. (True story.)

    Worse still, if your family couldn't get in early on this ratcheting process, you're now shut out. Traditionally, a man is not considered marriageable until he own a house/apartment (skipping the true commie era when no one owned anything), so the desperation to get into buying is really high.  If you don't OWN a property in a city, and you are farmer-class and not city-class, your children cannot go to the public city schools but have to go to your birth county.  But there are no jobs in your birth county, so parents who are farmer-class and can't get city-class residency have to send their own children to be raised by grandparents still in the farmer birth county. It's horrific and a major reason why the Chinese birthrate is still plummeting despite the 3-child policy.  The special economic districts in the city-tier system means that there can be no economic opportunities in the countryside. They don't exist, and you can't make them.

    Knowing what a bad deal they're locked into, Chinese investors who have successfully acquired extra property then look overseas, and they cash out in China to leave someone else with the hot potato and buy up property in HK (before recent events), Australia, Canada, and some cities in the US without many black people (mainland Chinese investors hate buying in areas with black people).  They cause massive housing inflation there, too, and also have many homes that are simply sitting empty, as they often don't even rent them out.  Traditional mainland Chinese people are also not yet accustomed to the idea of maintenance.  In ancient Chinese homes, there was practically no maintenance that was done.  A house, temple, or palace was built, it stayed until it was rotting around your ears, and then you tore down the bad parts and rebuilt it.  (Houses were still considered temporary in this way in Japan until very recently, and in medieval Europe, most peasant housing was also temporary and rebuilt on average every 30 years, so this isn't really a strange thing.)  In that way, a house was often both "new" and "ancient" at the same time, because it still counted as ancient if it was built in the same spot (like the Great Wall of China, the stone parts of which weren't built that way until the time of Elizabeth I in England!).  

    So there is a serious problem with mainland Chinese investors buying up inventory, driving up prices, and then really neglecting the properties that they do own to the point that they're becoming derelict.  Most Chinese who move to the US or Australia get the hang of maintenance eventually or else keep moving to new homes every 15 years, but the overseas investors don't have the cultural exposure and don't make the transition.

    This is a part of the housing price bubble that's important to understand in places like Vancouver and Melbourne, but it does affect the West Coast and certain select parts of the East Coast of the US, too.  Massive essay, but this is how bizarre things can become!

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 189 votes
    5y

    @Mitch Jones- I think a lot of this is going to depend on where you are investing. While the CDC moratorium was far reaching, there were states/cities with significantly more restrictive local bans on evictions. I think markets that were fairly landlord friendly before the pandemic won't see much of a change. Places that were tenant friendly before the pandemic are a different story. There was a lot of pent up anger at landlords in general, COVID just put a spotlight on it and gave them the political clout to enact further restrictions. So the solution for landlords operating in these areas is to have strong knowledge of the law, increase tenant screening/rent collection procedures, and to make sure the deal is worth all the additional hassle.

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    At the risk of rightfully being accused of highjacking this thread:

    @Genny Li

    The irony is the western elites sold our civilization on if we opened up to China (and let them ship us a bunch of worthless plastic crap to sell at Wal-Mart to dump in our oceans) we would liberalize China.  Instead the opposite has come true and the West is becoming more like China.  Our elite are making more money on the decline of working class Americans than they ever could have dreamed when America was becoming stronger, I trend I see continuing.  

    I can't help but add if you think your mother in law's brutality is is scary, just imagine what these woke *** soy boy's would do if they were sent door to door.  LOL but seriously.

  • Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 41 votes
    5y

    A lot of your success will depend upon your current financial position and willingness to change as the system changes. I own my rentals outright along with my home, and I have enough money tucked away to weather quite a bit of nonsense. I'm not horribly worried about myself. As far as the moratorium is concerned, I have a sneaking suspicion you're looking at the new normal. If we're going on two years of this crap, and it hasn't gone away, I doubt it's likely to. I desperately hope I'm wrong. How I adjusted is to begin turning them into STR's with a maximum stay of two weeks. I make more money but it's a lot more work. I manage everything myself. I was told by a friend who owns multiple apartment complexes that anything a manager can do, I can do better when I was getting into the game 17 years ago. My long term rental is occupied by a gal with a great job, and over 800 credit score. She's just priced out of buying. I screened to the point of obnoxiousness to get someone like her and I charge her a few hundred under market rate. She's not going anywhere. I do have a termination of lease due to sale clause in my contract now though. Last, I will only do business in my bright red state. The game is changing.

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 281 votes
    5y

    @Eric Bilderback -- China's new economy is a fusion of the communist power structure plus wild west robber barons layered on top of each other, with a huge dose of mafia-style organized crime behind it, except the criminals are all in or connected to the government.  So it's not the communism of 1985 China nor any other period.  It's a new thing.  And yes, all the Western governments are converging toward the exact same system that China is moving toward at an alarming rate, with "public-private partnerships" becoming rackets where the commercial sector and the government present a united front to squeeze the life out of people who are not connected to the oligarch class.  An antagonistic relationship between a well-restrained government and large industry is far better than collusion to reforge the world.  There's a name for this system, and it starts with an F, not a C.  China is the opposite of soy, though--they call those people the Baizuo, the White Left, and play them like a fiddle.  They're having the same mental health crisis that's hitting the Zoomers, but rather than culturally induced madness, it's the complete lack of anything resembling a reasonable opportunity that's causing a lot of Chinese youth to basically drop out of the rat race. If you can never in your life expect to get a house and support a family, why kill yourself working 996 schedules? (That's 9 am-9 pm 6 days a week, typical Chinese factory hours.) They protest by "lying down"--doing the minimum to get enough money to work, which chips away at the bedrock of China's highly inefficient and manpower dependent economy.

    Dragging us back on topic, this is why Black Rock and assorting enterprises buying up huge swathes of real estate isn't some sort of signal that it's reassuring for ordinary people to be in real estate but rather a warning of the desired new regime post Great Reset.  The issue for those in power is that people who own nothing, rather than being happy, decide they have nothing to lose.  CF the "lying down" above--that alone WILL bring a country to its knees, as full automation is a pipe dream.

    And also on topic, buy in towns with a hefty black population or that mainland Chinese people haven't heard of, and you avoid the mainland Chinese bubble.  They will never, ever invest in anything small town (vs suburb) unless it's an enclave of rich people because to the mainland Chinese, rural=hideous poverty.

    • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Genny Li:

      @Eric Bilderback -- China's new economy is a fusion of the communist power structure plus wild west robber barons layered on top of each other, with a huge dose of mafia-style organized crime behind it, except the criminals are all in or connected to the government.  So it's not the communism of 1985 China nor any other period.  It's a new thing.  And yes, all the Western governments are converging toward the exact same system that China is moving toward at an alarming rate, with "public-private partnerships" becoming rackets where the commercial sector and the government present a united front to squeeze the life out of people who are not connected to the oligarch class.  An antagonistic relationship between a well-restrained government and large industry is far better than collusion to reforge the world.  There's a name for this system, and it starts with an F, not a C.  China is the opposite of soy, though--they call those people the Baizuo, the White Left, and play them like a fiddle.  They're having the same mental health crisis that's hitting the Zoomers, but rather than culturally induced madness, it's the complete lack of anything resembling a reasonable opportunity that's causing a lot of Chinese youth to basically drop out of the rat race. If you can never in your life expect to get a house and support a family, why kill yourself working 996 schedules? (That's 9 am-9 pm 6 days a week, typical Chinese factory hours.) They protest by "lying down"--doing the minimum to get enough money to work, which chips away at the bedrock of China's highly inefficient and manpower dependent economy.

      Dragging us back on topic, this is why Black Rock and assorting enterprises buying up huge swathes of real estate isn't some sort of signal that it's reassuring for ordinary people to be in real estate but rather a warning of the desired new regime post Great Reset.  The issue for those in power is that people who own nothing, rather than being happy, decide they have nothing to lose.  CF the "lying down" above--that alone WILL bring a country to its knees, as full automation is a pipe dream.

      And also on topic, buy in towns with a hefty black population or that mainland Chinese people haven't heard of, and you avoid the mainland Chinese bubble.  They will never, ever invest in anything small town (vs suburb) unless it's an enclave of rich people because to the mainland Chinese, rural=hideous poverty.

      Jesus Genny, you sound exactly like my Russian wife talking about the glories of Marxist-Leninism in the Soviet Union.

  • Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 41 votes
    5y

    @Genny Lee — I have never heard a more honest and concise analysis of the current state of affairs in China. This should be printed out and thumbtacked to every investor’s cork board. Thanks 

  • Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I've had similar thoughts.  But then I think of the following:

    -Housing is a necessity.  Therefore it will never go "out of style."  I would argue that it is recession proof because of this fact and if values go down, it is a paper loss, nothing more.  Just hold on to it and stay the course (if you can).

    -Housing is a safer investment.  Even if the house burns down you still have land value.  Imagine investing in a company that goes under with nothing to show for it.  

    -The more complicated something gets, often can mean more opportunity.  I live in and house hack in Los Angeles where rent control sucks.  What this does is convinces others to invest elsewhere.  So what's the outcome?  I'm the only option for rentals.  It becomes a supply and demand issue, with rents possibly going up more than anticipated. 

    • Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Rick Albert:

      I've had similar thoughts.  But then I think of the following:

      -Housing is a necessity.  Therefore it will never go "out of style."  I would argue that it is recession proof because of this fact and if values go down, it is a paper loss, nothing more.  Just hold on to it and stay the course (if you can).

      -Housing is a safer investment.  Even if the house burns down you still have land value.  Imagine investing in a company that goes under with nothing to show for it.  

      -The more complicated something gets, often can mean more opportunity.  I live in and house hack in Los Angeles where rent control sucks.  What this does is convinces others to invest elsewhere.  So what's the outcome?  I'm the only option for rentals.  It becomes a supply and demand issue, with rents possibly going up more than anticipated. 

      I get that.  100% it is a business decision.  That's where proper vetting comes in for the tenants.  Even a hint of a red flag and you move on.  

    • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
      Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Rick Albert:

      I've had similar thoughts.  But then I think of the following:

      -Housing is a necessity.  Therefore it will never go "out of style."  I would argue that it is recession proof because of this fact and if values go down, it is a paper loss, nothing more.  Just hold on to it and stay the course (if you can).

      -Housing is a safer investment.  Even if the house burns down you still have land value.  Imagine investing in a company that goes under with nothing to show for it.  

      -The more complicated something gets, often can mean more opportunity.  I live in and house hack in Los Angeles where rent control sucks.  What this does is convinces others to invest elsewhere.  So what's the outcome?  I'm the only option for rentals.  It becomes a supply and demand issue, with rents possibly going up more than anticipated. 

      I agree with your points and wish you luck, but the Government can still wreak havoc with your business, even to the point (for some people) of driving you out of business. Not something I care to be a part of......

  • Member since 2021 · 237 posts · 153 votes
    5y

    @Mitch Jones

    Personally I see every ridiculous government legislative roadblock as a reason why others will drop out/ fail. Natural selection. I’m not fond of it, but I’m not running for office so I’ll navigate.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 844 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    More regulation to help the needy might provide temporary help, but in the long run will often have the opposite of the intended effect and will do nothing more than increase the divide between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. 

    As someone who lives in Commiefornia and has no plans to move out, sure....these laws are a distraction and annoying at times. But in the long-run, they ultimately help the landowner more. Eliminate 1031s and increase RG tax rate to increase tax revenue to redistribute? OK, that will just dry up inventory and prices will get pushed upward. Rent control, eviction moratorium, and anything else that makes multis less attractive? OK, that will just dry up development and prices on existing inventory will get pushed upward...and less future rental units will drive up rents more.

    And since this thread has already mentioned Asia, let me mention that I also invest in South Korea. The laws here in California are tame compared to what they're doing at the ROK. The taxation they impose if you own more than one property is nothing short of highway robbery....especially if you are a foreigner like me! Yet, property values there are skyrocketing beyond belief. I can't explain it, other than to say similar to China's cultural dynamic as explained by Ginny, it's strongly embedded into the culture that you must own property. If you don't, then so many things fall apart. 

  • Accountant · MI · Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    I have concerns that we will see a national roll out of "temporary" rent stabilization to counteract the effects of  inflation on tenants. 

    Us as owners know our costs increase yearly regardless of whether Rents have increased or not. 

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