Damaged roof supports with tenants not leaving.

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Damaged roof supports with tenants not leaving.

Nathan Clark
Conroe, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 17 votes

I live in Texas and one of my rental properties is having the roof slide due to broken supports. I've filed a insurance claim and have sent my tenants texts, emails and certified letter that the house is potentially unsafe and they need to vacate the property until I can get repairs done. I've sent them money for a hotel and keep offering to pay for a hotel until the problem is fixed or they find another residence. They do not want to leave as its an inconvenience to them and they don't think the roof is just going to collapse. They also have a 14 day old baby and don't want to move him.

I don't know what to do and I keep stressing for her and her family to leave the property. What can I do in this situation? Am I still liable? I messaged an online attorney and they seemed to think I had done everything in my power to alert them and that in Texas you have to let them know about the dangerous condition and take steps to remedy it.

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Scott M.
Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

Involve the city.  Call the building or health and safety department.  Generally they can assist.  You may also want to file eviction for the safety of the tenant.

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  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Involve the city.  Call the building or health and safety department.  Generally they can assist.  You may also want to file eviction for the safety of the tenant.

    4Reply
  • John T.
    Rental Property Investor · Central U. S. A. · Member since 2013 · 296 posts · 149 votes
    4y

    @Nathan Clark

    Check out Paragraph (b) below:

    Texas Property Code

    Sec. 92.054. CASUALTY LOSS. (a) If a condition results from an insured casualty loss, such as fire, smoke, hail, explosion, or a similar cause, the period for repair does not begin until the landlord receives the insurance proceeds.
    (b) If after a casualty loss the rental premises are as a practical matter totally unusable for residential purposes and if the casualty loss is not caused by the negligence or fault of the tenant, a member of the tenant's family, or a guest or invitee of the tenant, either the landlord or the tenant may terminate the lease by giving written notice to the other any time before repairs are completed. If the lease is terminated, the tenant is entitled only to a pro rata refund of rent from the date the tenant moves out and to a refund of any security deposit otherwise required by law.
    (c) If after a casualty loss the rental premises are partially unusable for residential purposes and if the casualty loss is not caused by the negligence or fault of the tenant, a member of the tenant's family, or a guest or invitee of the tenant, the tenant is entitled to reduction in the rent in an amount proportionate to the extent the premises are unusable because of the casualty, but only on judgment of a county or district court. A landlord and tenant may agree otherwise in a written lease.

    ALSO, require your tenants to have Renters Insurance so that their insurance will pay to put them up in a hotel.

    1Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Clark:

    I live in Texas and one of my rental properties is having the roof slide due to broken supports. I've filed a insurance claim and have sent my tenants texts, emails and certified letter that the house is potentially unsafe and they need to vacate the property until I can get repairs done. I've sent them money for a hotel and keep offering to pay for a hotel until the problem is fixed or they find another residence. They do not want to leave as its an inconvenience to them and they don't think the roof is just going to collapse. They also have a 14 day old baby and don't want to move him.

    I don't know what to do and I keep stressing for her and her family to leave the property. What can I do in this situation? Am I still liable? I messaged an online attorney and they seemed to think I had done everything in my power to alert them and that in Texas you have to let them know about the dangerous condition and take steps to remedy it.

    What supports are broken? Collar ties, purlins, rafters? 2 of 3 of these could possibly be fixed with someone living there. I have a number of a framer there in Conroe. I have used him multiple times on large jobs and he is awesome. This job may be too small for him but he may know of someone equally good that can do the job. 

    I wish you had pics. 

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  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    @Nathan Clark

    I'm getting the sense that there's a lot more to this story. Nobody reasonable stays in an unsafe house when the LL is telling them the roof may collapse and offers to spring for a hotel. By any chance, is this some backdoor self-eviction strategy due to you finding out they had a baby? If it's not and I've offended you, I'm sorry, but I really do have to ask. We get all kinds here.

    2Reply
  • Nathan Clark
    OP
    Conroe, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 17 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    @Nathan Clark

    I'm getting the sense that there's a lot more to this story. Nobody reasonable stays in an unsafe house when the LL is telling them the roof may collapse and offers to spring for a hotel. By any chance, is this some backdoor self-eviction strategy due to you finding out they had a baby? If it's not and I've offended you, I'm sorry, but I really do have to ask. We get all kinds here.

    No, absolutely not. They were very good tenants. The mother keeps saying that’s it’s a terrible inconvenience for them to be in a hotel because it’s 4 adults and now a newborn. They agreed to stay in a hotel that I paid for while I get a crew to put in some emergency supports in the morning. We are still waiting on the insurance to say anything about the claim and to fix the whole problem will take anywhere from 1-3 weeks. All the framers have basically said the entire roof needs to come off and the whole thing be reframed. 

    To answer another question asked above it’s all 3 types of supports that are broken. All of the framers have said that the front part of the roof is currently not being supported by anything and has shifted almost a foot down. I really appreciate all of you guys answers and help!

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  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    @Mike Reynolds Mike, this has got you all over it, thankfully. Way too extensive for my blood.

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y

    @Nathan Clark the roof is collapsing (you know that but just confirming this is serious). Out of curiosity, what happened to cause this or did it just happen? 

    I would change the lock on the door and post a notice that the property is inhabitable. Four adults and a baby in a hotel room is inconvenient, but having a roof collapse on you is even more inconvenient. Stop being nice and be firm with the tenants. No judge in the country will penalize you for forcing people out of an unsafe building, but allowing them back in is a liability. Simply warning them is not enough to protect you from liability. As others suggested, see if the city will help you. Maybe they can post notice on the building that it is not habitable. 

    2Reply
  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    100% take these photos to the cities building department / health and safety department. City inspector sees this they should condemn the place on the spot and force them out.  

    2Reply
  • Nathan Clark
    OP
    Conroe, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 17 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Nathan Clark the roof is collapsing (you know that but just confirming this is serious). Out of curiosity, what happened to cause this or did it just happen? 

    I would change the lock on the door and post a notice that the property is inhabitable. Four adults and a baby in a hotel room is inconvenient, but having a roof collapse on you is even more inconvenient. Stop being nice and be firm with the tenants. No judge in the country will penalize you for forcing people out of an unsafe building, but allowing them back in is a liability. Simply warning them is not enough to protect you from liability. As others suggested, see if the city will help you. Maybe they can post notice on the building that it is not habitable. 

    The roof was replaced in December 2020 and that is when we first saw damage of a soffit hanging down. I don’t know if the amount of people or slamming down the shingles caused it break a support and then it just slowly started getting worse. A week ago the tenants sent a picture showing all the front soffits down and when I sent a crew out there they went in the attic and told me there was damage. I immediately told the tenants to exit and find another place to live, posted a sign on the door stating it was uninhabitable, texts, emails, etc. 

    I have a builder out today who is going to add in some supports until we can get material to reframe the front of the roof. I sent this to the tenants in a hurry  thinking they were going to leave the building and would waive any liability to ensure I didn’t evict and hurt their chances at finding a new place. 

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    I can't tell from these pictures but have the roof rafters come apart from the ridge beam? Or are both sides sliding off at the same time, with the ridge beam sinking and pancaking? I don't know if this will make you feel any better but even if the roof pancakes flat the interior and exterior walls should support that weight, even though (of course) the house will be totally uninhabitable until the entire roof structure is rebuilt. It's unlikely the occupants will be killed although a shower of sheet rock might come raining down on them and their stuff. That doesn't mean you don't want them out of there, of course.

    If the ridge beam is intact, you can probably have that side rebuilt with them still in the house. You can actually add an entire floor on to a house with people in it below as long as you can tent the structure to protect from rain. Your builder would come in, strip the roof & decking off that side, reset the rafters with bracket ties (like they use for hurricanes) and collar ties across the top, then reset the decking and re-roof. It will be a loud and annoying process with someone in the house but it can be done and with a regular sized crew can be done pretty quick; the rafters are already cut and bird-mouthed and you might be able to reuse the decking. 

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  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    There has got to be some way to add support from inside the attic. But having said that, it would be wise to get them out. You will always be held liable in the event of an accident.

    2Reply
  • Robert Edwards
    Specialist · Butte, MT · Member since 2021 · 27 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    Protect yourself, file for eviction.

    0Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Like Bruce said, this can be most likely fixed from inside the attic. Your purlins are broken for some reason. I would think a limb would have had to hit your roof for that kind of damage. 

    A few other things stand out from the pictures. The birds mouth on the rafters at the eave are not connected to the plate. Are the rafters pushed down that far? If so I would do like others said and just rebuild it from the plate up. 

    Another thing. Did they nail them shingles with 16d nails? If not, what are those nails sticking that far down below the decking? Those are common nails and but roofing nails. Was there something else nailed it there?

    0Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    On second glance I think I see what you mean. The porch roof is the one sliding off. Literally sliding off. This is probably due to it not being built right from the beginning. 

    The main ridge is probably stable but the porch ridge is not. It is becoming detached and sliding off. I still think this could be fixed with someone living there. It will involve tearing that part off and rebuilding it. Think of it as an extensive roofing job that needs decking. 

    Your biggest issue is finding a week that doesn't rain to get it done in. 

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    4y

    Some thoughts:

    • Your lease should cover items such as this.  Our lease explicitly states the LL shall be the one that determines if the unit is able to be occupied during repairs.  
    • We require tenants to have renters insurance.  We do not cover their hotel.  I suggest you add this requirement to your lease.
    • It is not up to the tenants on if they get to continue to occupy the house for this extent of repairs.  Even if the repairs could possibly be done while occupied (I do not have the expertise to know), I would not have them occupy the unit.  Too much risk during a project of this size.
    • You need to take control.  This has the appearance of the tenants having too much control probably for quite a while.

    good luck

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  • Daniel SmythPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2019 · 471 posts · 342 votes
    4y

    @Nathan Clark

    Talk with the sheriff and states attorney to get them out because of an unsafe house.

    Safety is paramount!

    You may need your property to be condemned.

    When the property again meets code, it is again able to be occupied.

    [email protected]
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  • Nathan Clark
    OP
    Conroe, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    Thank you all for your help! 

    Update: The tenants took me up on my offer and are staying at a hotel. I had the framing crew put in some emergency supports until the complete repair can start next week. They are going to replace the entire front side of the roof that is sliding and on the back side use jacks to lift it up and then fix/add supports on that side. They believe all of this can be done safely in stages if tenants decide to move back in.

    I also re-posted on the doors and house that the house is unsafe and no one is allowed on the property until repairs have been completed and notices removed. We had a random roofer come by and try to get on the roof and a amazon driver get to close to the house so I posted more signs to stay away. 
     

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  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Nice work @Nathan Clark

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  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Good work so far....but what do you mean 'if tenants decide to move back in'....? It is not their decision, it is yours! Take my word for it, Contractors hate having owners or tenants on-site. It will cost you waaay more and take longer.

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