Jacksonville FL market...still viable?

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Jacksonville FL market...still viable?

Leah N.
Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 11 votes

I've been perusing BP for a while but today is my first post. Awesome community!

Living out of state but considering starting my RE investing in the Jacksonville FL market (family lives in the NE FL area and could check on property, etc) as a turnkey property as I work full time and have limited time outside of work due to family constraints. Is this still a viable market for rentals if looking more for CoC returns?

I've heard JWB is one of the major players there, but some of the recent reviews on BP are a little concerning. Anyone do a deal with them recently? Experience?

Open to any other recommended TK providers in that area as well...Thanks!!

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Jeff Grove
Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 15 votes
7y

Actually, I have a way we can all get a feel for neighborhoods or parts of a metro area that might better than others...In the Tampa market, this is a pretty good representation. I'm constantly looking at low/moderate census tracts because working for a bank, we earn CRA credit when people purchase in these areas. The link below will show you a map of the US. You can zoom in to whatever area you want to look at. Basically, anything in dark purple are your lowest income areas. The light shade purple is a moderate income area. Anything that isn't purple is either 'middle' or 'upper' income areas. Perhaps you can use it as a tool to cross-reference any additional research you're doing...Let us know if this represents your area pretty well or not...

https://www.policymap.com/embedmap_dyn?lqid=59216

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Leah N.:

    I've been perusing BP for a while but today is my first post. Awesome community!

    Living out of state but considering starting my RE investing in the Jacksonville FL market (family lives in the NE FL area and could check on property, etc) as a turnkey property as I work full time and have limited time outside of work due to family constraints. Is this still a viable market for rentals if looking more for CoC returns?

    I've heard JWB is one of the major players there, but some of the recent reviews on BP are a little concerning. Anyone do a deal with them recently? Experience?

    Open to any other recommended TK providers in that area as well...Thanks!!

     Welcome to the site Leah. I've got no 1st hand experience in that market or with that turnkey provider but I wanted to drop a few best practices here for you. I always tell new investors to do these things when they buy out of state. Should help mitigate your risk greatly, no matter what market you invest in.

    • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
    • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
    • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
    • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
    • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
    • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.
    5Reply
  • Leah N.
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 11 votes
    7y

    @James Wise

    Thank you! Great advice. Currently in NC and the rental market is tight here...

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Leah N.:

    @James Wise

    Thank you! Great advice. Currently in NC and the rental market is tight here...

     I hear that. Prices have been shooting up down there for close to 20 years.

    0Reply
  • Charles SoperPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Merritt Island, FL · Member since 2015 · 253 posts · 178 votes
    7y

    @Leah N. Something else to consider if time is an issue is to look into even more passive RE investments such as syndication.  There are many syndicators here on BP and a wealth of knowledge to help you understand the investment.  Turn Key can be great but I've seen a few that aren't and is many cases the upside potential isn't as great as some other RE investment vehicles, passive or active.

    2Reply
  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Leah N. I don't know the Jacksonville market but I wouldn't choose a market because family lives nearby and can check on it. That has nothing to do with whether it is a good market and fits your objective. You should clearly define your investment objective and criteria and then choose the market that best helps you achieve your goals. If that happens to be Jacksonville and your family can check on the property, that's great, but don't make that your primary criteria.

    1Reply
  • Jeff Grove
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    Welcome, @Leah N.!

    I'm in the Tampa area and I can tell you through running numbers on a bunch of deals in this market, there's generally a tougher rent to purchase price ratio to exploit here. I use that as an initial barometer to get a feel for a market. Thus, it has caused me to look outside of my market. In doing this, I have noticed there are some other markets that aren't as tight, perhaps allowing for better cash on cash returns. Areas such as Hampton, Va, metro Cleveland (I see you @James Wise), and Jacksonville all seem to have more inventory of residential properties, where you get a better 'rent bang for your purchase buck', so to speak. I figure some additional research in areas such as these will help mitigate some of the risk of investing out of town. My plan is to learn about these markets more closely and find the B-Class areas James mentions above to consider investing in. Although, perhaps anyone reading this thread with knowledge in these areas can provide a pointer or two on where to focus the search for these types of neighborhoods in those markets...

    2Reply
  • Jeff Grove
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    Actually, I have a way we can all get a feel for neighborhoods or parts of a metro area that might better than others...In the Tampa market, this is a pretty good representation. I'm constantly looking at low/moderate census tracts because working for a bank, we earn CRA credit when people purchase in these areas. The link below will show you a map of the US. You can zoom in to whatever area you want to look at. Basically, anything in dark purple are your lowest income areas. The light shade purple is a moderate income area. Anything that isn't purple is either 'middle' or 'upper' income areas. Perhaps you can use it as a tool to cross-reference any additional research you're doing...Let us know if this represents your area pretty well or not...

    https://www.policymap.com/embedmap_dyn?lqid=59216

    7Reply
  • Garrett Hardin
    Rental Property Investor · Redondo Beach, CA · Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Jeff Grove Hey Jeff! That is a great link and pretty accurate for where I would suggest looking to investing in Jacksonville. I'm currently living in Jacksonville and could provide some more "boots on the ground" collaboration if your interested!

    1Reply
  • Matt Berklacy
    Rental Property Investor | Realtor · Jacksonville FL | Savannah Ga |Raleigh NC · Member since 2017 · 467 posts · 161 votes
    7y

    You can buy out of state here, light rehab, under market and turn it over to a professional property manager without using a turn key provider. Retail scares me, I want to "assume" JWB is about 20% above retail in exchange for them managing it, I think 3 year leases, their own tear down cleared lot new construction homes, or fully rehabbed to perfection looking, by a rehab investor like homevestors.....

    if you're ok with that, they are the only ones I know of, or seen as I drive under their big billboard.

    If your flexible, you can go shopping and find a better deal...particularly you being so close..and same time zone, easy flight.

    I have property managers managing mine in Raleigh that I bought out of state.....I kept coming south for consistant warmer weather..and keep them managed up north..

    2Reply
  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    7y

    @Leah N. I have experience investing with JWB going back to 2012.  I have seen a lot of appreciation i the homes I bought years ago from them, but today's rent to price ratios buying with them or any turnkey company in JAX for that matter, make it very difficult to truly cash flow significantly on homes they are selling today. Plus the rehabs seem to be in lower quality neighborhoods (C-/D?) On the new construction homes, its more likely they'll appreciate, but cash flow will almost certainly be close to zero in the near term.  They run a very professional PM service (with some caveats), and I have been mostly happy with them over most of the time I was with them.  In the last year or so, that changed for me and I switched my homes to another management firm.  I'd be happy to elaborate further if you want, just DM me.

    0Reply
  • Matt MacDonald
    Jacksonville Florida · Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    Leah, I've worked in property management & real estate for 15 years in Jacksonville FL. Just my opinion where I'm at in Jacksonville is a good market. We have 2 Navy bases & a Coast Guard base close to us. Also, CSX & the Mayo Clinic are here & there's also some other big companies here. People can still get a good home around here for under $250,000.00. Matt MacDonald, Lic, Real Estate Broker 

    1Reply
  • Mahmoud Benjawad
    Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Leah N.:

    I've been perusing BP for a while but today is my first post. Awesome community!

    Living out of state but considering starting my RE investing in the Jacksonville FL market (family lives in the NE FL area and could check on property, etc) as a turnkey property as I work full time and have limited time outside of work due to family constraints. Is this still a viable market for rentals if looking more for CoC returns?

    I've heard JWB is one of the major players there, but some of the recent reviews on BP are a little concerning. Anyone do a deal with them recently? Experience?

    Open to any other recommended TK providers in that area as well...Thanks!!

     Welcome to the site Leah. I've got no 1st hand experience in that market or with that turnkey provider but I wanted to drop a few best practices here for you. I always tell new investors to do these things when they buy out of state. Should help mitigate your risk greatly, no matter what market you invest in.

    • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
    • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
    • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
    • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
    • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.Nox Vidmate VLC
    • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.

    Thank you! Great advice. Currently in NC and the rental market is tight here...

    1Reply
  • Travis Watts
    Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 245 votes
    7y

    @Leah N. Good question. I invest in apartment syndications. Lately, I have invested in Tampa and Jacksonville. I am currently vetting an opportunity in Orlando. Colliers International put out a great research and forecast report for Jacksonville. Happy to share if you're interested. Best of luck!

    1Reply
  • Gregg CohenBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 136 votes
    6y

    I'm one of the owners of JWB Real Estate Capital and would be happy to answer any questions you may have.  Investors come to Jacksonville to get a balance of positive cash flow and home price appreciation.  If you're focused on getting the highest rent to price ratio only, I'd suggest a lower priced market like Indianapolis, Cleveland or Kansas City.  But you'll also be giving up long-term growth by investing in those markets versus a growth market like Jacksonville.  For example, since 1991, Cleveland's avg appreciation rate is under 2.5%.  Jacksonville's avg appreciation rate since 1991 is 4.3%.  In Jacksonville you can get positive cash flow on new construction assets and set yourself up to achieve maximum returns on investment when including appreciation when holding for a full market cycle (10-20 years.)

    904-677-6777
    Gregg Cohen, Not Your Avg Investor Show4.5237 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    5Reply
  • Adam Cade
    Investor · Blacksburg, VA · Member since 2020 · 65 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Gregg Cohen how does the multifamily/apartment complex market look in Jacksonville?

    0Reply
  • Gregg CohenBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 136 votes
    6y

    @Adam Cade - Apartments are strong but I see more upside with single family rentals.  There just isn't much multi family housing stock in the neighborhoods that I'd recommend you own cash flowing rental properties in Jacksonville.  You'd have to go into low income neighborhoods and I stick to the B's and C's.  However, town homes are a great option.  They have many of the advantages of multi's such as the ability to own multiple units under one roof to spread out your maintenance and vacancy risks.  You also have more flexibility to sell the asset when that time comes.  Financing is easier because the appraiser has more comps to get a more accurate value than multi's.  And there are plenty of town homes in the B's and C's.  Hope this helps.

    -Gregg

    904-677-6777
    Gregg Cohen, Not Your Avg Investor Show4.5237 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Jamie Bateman
    Investor · Baltimore County, MD · Member since 2014 · 466 posts · 439 votes
    6y

    We were able get our Jacksonville SFR property rented in 2 days in the middle of the pandemic. We'll see how the market does in the next 6-12 months but so far, so good. I wrote about this particular deal here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

    3Reply
  • Adam Cade
    Investor · Blacksburg, VA · Member since 2020 · 65 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Gregg Cohen good to hear. North Jax seems to be a popular area and growing. Do you have any references you could share for multi/apartment complex agents in Jax?

    1Reply
  • Gregg CohenBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 136 votes
    6y

    I'll ask around my office and see if I can come up with a recommendation for you. 

    904-677-6777
    Gregg Cohen, Not Your Avg Investor Show4.5237 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Gregg CohenBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 136 votes
    6y

    Hi @Adam Cade and @Charlie Cameron - got one for you.  I'll send you a private message.

    904-677-6777
    Gregg Cohen, Not Your Avg Investor Show4.5237 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Adam Cade
    Investor · Blacksburg, VA · Member since 2020 · 65 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    @Gregg Cohen you da man! 

    0Reply
  • Nan Deng
    Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Welcome to the community! I just bought a property from JWB 2 months ago. I can say that it is an excellent experience. It is still too early for me to give you any conclusion on the performance of the property. But I do have several positive points for JWB:

    1. The property was first appraised a little below the listing price. The report explicitly said about the roof and mold issues. JWB hired a contractor to fix the problems and found another lender (and appraiser) to redo the process. They covered all the cost.

    2. The property was rented to a tenant a year ago when I bought the property and they signed a 3 year lease. So I inherited a two year contract from them. So far, the tenant has not missed any rent. Fingers crossed.

    3. JWB is very responsive. They will have weekly update with you while you are in they buying process and switch to a monthly sync after the closing. It is so much better than many other PMs who may not even reply your email. (OK, this is a low bar. But you get the idea) So far, I feel very comfortable working with them.

    1Reply
  • Ezra Sitt
    FL · Member since 2013 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Gregg Cohen if you are able to recommend any MF agents up in the area it would be appreciated.

    We currently own a number of commercial and residential properties in fort lauderdale and miami but are looking to move some capital up north.

    Thanks

    1Reply
  • Gregg CohenBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 136 votes
    6y

    Hi Ezra, thanks for reaching out. MF properties are great but there just aren't a lot of opportunities specifically in Jacksonville. The housing stock in the ideal neighborhoods for positive cash flow is typically SFR. However, town homes might be a great alternative for you. You'll get many any of the benefits of MF plus some additional flexibility when it comes to financing and selling the assets and there are many options to find town homes in the right cash flow neighborhoods in Jacksonville. Let me know if you'd like to set up a time to chat in more detail about it.

    904-677-6777
    Gregg Cohen, Not Your Avg Investor Show4.5237 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Emma Fitzgibbon
    Member since 2019 · 50 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    What neighborhoods in Jacksonville would you suggest for SFH and duplexs under 200,000 that aren't dives and have potential to grow?

    0Reply
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