Any recommendations for Property Management for a duplex in Indianapolis?

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Any recommendations for Property Management for a duplex in Indianapolis?

Jeb Brilliant
Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes

Hi All, 

I'm looking to buy my first property in Indianapolis, it's a duplex. Being in California I need to find a property management company. Please send me any recommendations you have. 

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. 

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Account Closed
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 210 posts · 149 votes
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@Jeb Brilliant@Account Closed

Multi-family props do not do well in the Indianapolis area because of an assortment of reasons.

They are difficult to keep both sides rented.

They are mostly located in less desirable areas. As most people like to put letters on areas lets just say C-, D, and F areas. I don't know if anyone uses the letter E.

Your rents are usually between $300 to $550 in rent. Sometimes higher but not by much.

Your class of tenant will probably not really care much about the property and leave it a mess when they are done with it. Not all but many.

You will probably not be able to sell them for anything more then what you bought them for. They are strictly for cashflow, not appreciation.

I'm sure there are other reason that other people can mention but these are just some of the basics.

Now I do know of investors that do make them work but they are few and far between. I do have one investor who has no problem renting out his multi's but they are located in a much more desirable part of the city. I also have a friend that bought a multi and he lives in one side and rents out the other. His tenant is paying off his mortgage. Great when it works.

Now I am not saying not to buy multi-family. I just think that one should do their due diligence before making the purchase. The numbers can look great on paper but when realty hits. Those numbers go right out the door. 

I hope this helps.

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  • Rusty Scott
    Real Estate Broker & Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 83 votes
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    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    Hang on all. It's between Douglas Park Golf Course and Fall Creek. That's no where near Carmel. 

     Wow....yeah that is nowhere near the same thing. 

    I would be very hesitant about proceeding with a duplex in that area. 

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  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
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    @Rusty Scottdo you know that part of Indianapolis well? I've got it on good authority that it's not a bad area. It's no Beverly Hills but it's safe to walk around at night. Do you think otherwise? 

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  • Matthew Schroeder
    Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2014 · 332 posts · 245 votes
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    Jeb, do yourself a favor and type the street address into Google Earth, and then use the "street view" function to see the neighborhood and surrounding streets.  If it is the area I think it is (west of Douglas Park Golf Course, North of 25th, South of 30th, and east of College), you are likely to see a fair number of boarded up houses and vacant lots which used to be boarded up houses).  If you like, you can also pm me the address - I am originally from LA (near Pasadena) and can give you some context if that is helpful.

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  • Rusty Scott
    Real Estate Broker & Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 83 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    @Rusty Scottdo you know that part of Indianapolis well? I've got it on good authority that it's not a bad area. It's no Beverly Hills but it's safe to walk around at night. Do you think otherwise? 

     Guess it depends upon what street, because there are some streets in that area that are really not too great. I'm more concerned that it's a duplex in that area. 

    Think about this, if you are a tenant that is of good quality, why would you ever consider a duplex in this area, when you can find cheap SFHs to rent. Therefore your tenant pool is likely to exist of those that can't get approved anywhere else. This is why duplexes only typically make sense in higher priced areas of town. 

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  • Account Closed
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jeb Brilliant@Account Closed@Steve Cook

    Multi-family props do not do well in the Indianapolis area because of an assortment of reasons.

    They are difficult to keep both sides rented.

    They are mostly located in less desirable areas. As most people like to put letters on areas lets just say C-, D, and F areas. I don't know if anyone uses the letter E.

    Your rents are usually between $300 to $550 in rent. Sometimes higher but not by much.

    Your class of tenant will probably not really care much about the property and leave it a mess when they are done with it. Not all but many.

    You will probably not be able to sell them for anything more then what you bought them for. They are strictly for cashflow, not appreciation.

    I'm sure there are other reason that other people can mention but these are just some of the basics.

    Now I do know of investors that do make them work but they are few and far between. I do have one investor who has no problem renting out his multi's but they are located in a much more desirable part of the city. I also have a friend that bought a multi and he lives in one side and rents out the other. His tenant is paying off his mortgage. Great when it works.

    Now I am not saying not to buy multi-family. I just think that one should do their due diligence before making the purchase. The numbers can look great on paper but when realty hits. Those numbers go right out the door. 

    I hope this helps.

     This makes perfect sense. I had a list of all multi units in Indy a while ago and they were really all clustered around 38th directly north of the city. There are a few in the Castleton area, but for some reason that very specific neighborhood isn't the greatest either. I wonder what it is about duplexes...

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  • Lee Smith
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 477 posts · 304 votes
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    Duplexes, triplexes are not for the weak at heart.. They need a good manager.  Sounds like majority on here have made up their mind against.. Up to you to decide Jeb... I own quite a few and make decent money off them, and not a lot of trouble...

    They do take longer to rent, but if you are good to the tenants, and you qualify them correctly, they can be good rentals...

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  • Dan Perrott
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 354 posts · 167 votes
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    @Account Closed- Not all duplexes in the Indianapolis area are bad.  We have duplexes in Indianapolis that are great money makers.  In most cases we have them leased before the tenant moves out.   I want to make sure that the out-of-town investors realize that there are some excellent areas in Indy that you can make good solid investments.  Note that my properties are in B to C+ area getting $900 a side per month.  Yes - duplexes do exist in good areas in Indianapolis.  Of course, they are not the $25-50k priced properties in the war zone areas.

    From my experience  - almost all of the issues with duplexes in the Indianapolis neighborhood area that I invest are the with the management companies.  They have the same attitude as you - duplexes attract lower class of tenants - therefore they only bring in the lower class of tenants that you are referring to. 

    I myself am continuing to look for duplexes because they can be a great investment if you management them correctly.  I self manage my properties at this time.

    1Reply
  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
    11y

    Hi @Dan Perrott, 

    How much are you getting these $1,800/month duplexes for? Are these the $150k+ properties I'm hearing about? Do you have to do much rehab or are they closer to turn key?

    Do you mind sharing? Feel free to PM me if you would prefer, I would really like to hear about your experience. 

    Thanks,

    Jeb

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  • Justin Owens
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 18 votes
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    @Jeb Brilliant Very hard to get $900 a unit in Indianapolis, unless you are buying in the most trendiest of areas like Fountain Sq, Broadripple, and Downtown, and if thats the case you most likely would have to be looking for a dilapidated SFH and convert it to a multi-unit. You won't find any multi-unit properties in those areas that you can get a deal on.

    I believe @Dan Perrott , if I recall, owns some duplexes in the Castleton area, which is very rare. 

    If you are hell bent on finding a duplex that is in a nice area, then I would look in Carmel's Home Place neighborhood, there is almost always a duplex for sell in that area, but you'll be paying anywhere $100K-$140K.  I'd also look up in the Noblesville area. Great schools and the older homes and duplexes in town a generally affordable, but can be hard to get high rents. 

    Beechgrove has a nice inventory of duplexes as well, but hard competing with all the SFH's in that community.

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  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
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    Thanks @Justin Owens. I'm hell bent on trying to find a good place MF or SF sub $50k ish that will bring in at least $1k/ month gross. 

    Any suggestions? Anyone?

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  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Jeb Brilliant I don't want to rain on your parade but there is no such thing as a good MF for sub 50ish and anything in the price is not going to bring in $1000/mth. Save yourself a lot of heartache and revise your criteria, That will kill you.

    1Reply
  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
    11y

    @Mike D'Arrigo I talked to 2 separate people today who went to the property, walked around and one talked to the tenant. They said it wasn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. One guy owns a duplex a few blocks away and manages one on the next street over, within a hundred yards. Both were impressed and said they think it's a good location to buy. 

    That's the best I can hope for until I visit and judge for myself. 

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  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    This is the same one by the golf course and Falls Creek? That's an ok area. I can't tell but it looks like it's a 1/1 per side. That would explain the low price. 1/1's can be hard to rent and in general don't get the best of tenants. They tend to have very high vacancy and turn over and very limited exit strategy. If it's a 1/1 I would seriously reconsider it. Talk to a property manager first and see what they say. I sent you a DM with a referral to a good one.

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  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
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    @Mike D'Arrigo It's a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom. The current tenant is in a lease until March '16. 

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  • Shawn Holsapple
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    11y

    Pretty much anything south of 42nd in that area is tough.

    I've had a few SFH, recently, in there that I couldn't give away - even to the local slum lords...

    We've all given our best advise to @Jeb Brilliant - now he has to find out for himself.

    I hope we are wrong and it works out for him.

    1Reply
  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
    11y

    Thanks @Shawn Holsapple. Where would u suggest buying with the lowest cost and highest return while minimizing risk? As much as I have my heart set on a certain return I absolutely need to keep my eyes open. 

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  • Casey Miles
    Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2014 · 176 posts · 54 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    Thanks @Shawn Holsapple. Where would u suggest buying with the lowest cost and highest return while minimizing risk? As much as I have my heart set on a certain return I absolutely need to keep my eyes open. 

     I'll piggy back on this question. What cap rates do you guys see on SF that you'd be okay with your mother living in? Same question for duplexes. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Coming from the finance world there is a level of return associated with every level of risk. They go up in lock step. There are only a few things that can change this, and one of them being insider information. Obviously, It effectively reduces your risk in the unknown. This is illegal in the finance world, but thankfully isnt in Real Estate Investing. 

    I'm fairly certain an investor or two made a killing on the regentrification of certain areas of Indy by knowing info first; spotting a trend; sitting in on a neighborhood meeting. 

    So essentially, if you disqualified this area of Indy then its back to the books. I think all of the neighborhood associations publish minutes. The IndyStar has political news on regentrifications of neighborhoods. 

    Sorry if this is more of an answer than you wanted, but getting more reward for a given level of risk absent of luck or extreme due diligence isn't in the cards. 

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  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
    11y

    Thanks @Account Closed. I'll take a look at the paper today. Any suggestions where I can find meeting minutes?

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  • Account Closed
    New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 24 posts · 1 vote
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    @Jeb Brilliant @Leo B.

     We use Atlantis Realty Group in Indiana and have been very impressed with their responsiveness to our requests and ability to troubleshoot.

    http://www.atlantishomesolutions.com/

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  • Jeb Brilliant
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 623 posts · 155 votes
    11y

    Thanks @Account Closed, anybody in particular there?

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  • Account Closed
    New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 24 posts · 1 vote
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    @Jeb Brilliant

     See below!

    Caroline Bailey

    Atlantis Realty Group

    800-276-8940

    [email protected]>

    www.atlantisrealtygrp.com

    Ken Montague

    Green River Capital

    801-456-3216

    [email protected]

    http://greenrivercap.com/

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  • Account Closed
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    Thanks @Account Closed. I'll take a look at the paper today. Any suggestions where I can find meeting minutes?

     It depends which neighborhood you are looking at. 

    This shows the neighborhoods: http://maps.indy.gov/MyNeighborhood/

    The area I think you are interested in is flanked by Meadows on the north, Mapleton - Fall Creek on the west, and Martindale - Brightwood on the south. 

    By using that link, you can get official info about the Neighborhoods. It looks like the one for Mapleton - Fall Creek is www.unecdc.org. Some sort of unified economic corp... probably a lot of undesirable areas banded together because there wasnt enough interest in the one specific neighborhood. Best of luck.

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  • Shawn Holsapple
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    Thanks @Shawn Holsapple. Where would u suggest buying with the lowest cost and highest return while minimizing risk? As much as I have my heart set on a certain return I absolutely need to keep my eyes open. 

    IMHO - I like the post war built ranch homes in the outlying areas just inside and outside the I-465 Loop. I also recommend only going with SFH with rents of $700+. This will stop most of your headaches before they start.

    These homes can be bought rent-ready [turnkey] for under $65k on average and rent $750-$800 with low taxes [$100 mo] and insurance.

    One should see a solid 10%-12% ROI [CAP Rate] or higher with these types of homes. Or, if you're using leverage, you should net about $200+ per month after all expenses and debt service.

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  • Shawn Holsapple
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jeb Brilliant:

    Thanks @Account Closed. I'll take a look at the paper today. Any suggestions where I can find meeting minutes?

     It depends which neighborhood you are looking at. 

    This shows the neighborhoods: http://maps.indy.gov/MyNeighborhood/

    The area I think you are interested in is flanked by Meadows on the north, Mapleton - Fall Creek on the west, and Martindale - Brightwood on the south. 

    By using that link, you can get official info about the Neighborhoods. It looks like the one for Mapleton - Fall Creek is www.unecdc.org. Some sort of unified economic corp... probably a lot of undesirable areas banded together because there wasnt enough interest in the one specific neighborhood. Best of luck.

    All good information above.  BUT - I think you're missing a bigger question.  "Who is going to manage it"?  IMHO - I would interview a few property mangers that you have been referred to and then listen to what they tell you to buy.  I'm sure they know the city much better than some 3rd party crime report or a reporter that isn't in the business writing an article.

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