"I own 164859948 Doors"

Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 17 posts · 16 votes

If I own a duplex by myself, a 4 family with a partner, and a 12 unit syndication with 3 other people...

Do I own 18 doors?

Do I own 7 doors (2 + 2 + 3)?

Obviously ownership isn't split up this simply or evenly, but do all owners claim all doors in a partnership/syndication? Kind of a silly question, but wondering what other people "claim" when discussing with other investors, friends, realtors, lenders, etc.

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Bryan Hancock

Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Claiming you own 300 doors when you own a $25k interest in a syndication passively is akin to saying you own all of the Fortune 500 companies by owing shares in your index fund.

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Paul Shannon
Rental Property Investor · Fishers, IN · Member since 2016 · 335 posts · 470 votes
6y
A more relevant marker would be monthly cash flow. 1 door fully paid off could potentially make more than 5 doors combined with high LTVs. Do you want work harder to make less money or work less to make more money? People will tell you anything to make themselves feel secure in the reality they've created, ie how many doors. Not important.
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Brian Briscoe
Real Estate Coach · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 272 posts · 414 votes
6y
@Kate Zieverink McMinn - great point. There's a huge difference between an $50k LP interest in one single 8000 door portfolio and owning 100% of a fourplex. Door count can be misleading. I like @David Pere's answer, though not every conversation will lend itself to such specificity... If you must use door count to describe this, I'd say you're safe saying ownership in 18 doors.

Another common term that's abused in the same manner is Assets Under Management. There are some syndicators that use an "army of ants" mentality in raising money for large deals... for example, if big-time investor has a $40MM purchase price with a $20MM equity raise, they may have a dozen people working to raise money for them... It's not uncommon for each of these "capital raisers" to claim $40MM AUM, even though they may only have 1% ownership interest and no decision-making authority, which is also misleading. Looks impressive though...

What do I claim? I am frequently asked "how many doors do you have?" - so I typically respond with that number. I will usually say that my partners and I have syndicated 4 apartments totaling 168 doors. In our case, our company has 88%-100% of the GP interest in each one of these properties, though my personal ownership is only 6-25% between LP and GP shares.

End of the day - number of doors is definitely not the best metric, but it is very simple, convenient, and common. There are many posts already that point out that cash-flow and equity are better indicators of wealth (some rather comically I'll add): @Aaron K. @Thomas Enright @Kris L.

@KB Collins etc.
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Brian Briscoe
Real Estate Coach · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 272 posts · 414 votes
6y
BTW @Kate Zieverink McMinn - eventually, I will take my ownership interests in the larger door count and consolidate it into a much smaller door count. For me, syndicating the large numbers is a means to an end, and that endstate is enough cash flow to cover all of my expenses and more. 18 units owned free and clear would do that... though I think I'd still keep $50k in a 1000-unit syndication so I could still puff my chest out...
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
"I own the Doors of Perception."

I had no idea you were still alive, Aldous! 😂
As for me, I don't like telling anyone that kind of stuff. For one thing, number of doors really doesn't matter. I've seen investors with just a couple of doors that are really smart and worth listening to and people with dozens that were total knuckleheads. Aside from that, it's really just a form of braggadocio, designed to make you look important than you think you are. Finally, there are those who do it because it's a ploy to get you to trust their credibility and buy something else, which is what they're really selling - their guru program, management services, etc.
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John FortesPro Member
Multi-Family Syndicator · Abington, MA · Member since 2017 · 603 posts · 347 votes
6y
Sir @Brian Briscoe hit it on the head. How you deliver it is what really subject to interpretation.
Sometimes framing it in a way your firm is positioned is a better option than stating personal ownership/involvement.
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Dan DiFilippoBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2020 · 251 posts · 244 votes
6y
@Joe Splitrock you-... yes. You would say that.
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Lynnette E.
Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
AS it relates to many on BP that's very common among the members of this site.. they count every door they either or or have a minor interest in..

I think some count every door, including the closet doors, cupboard doors and the doggie door!
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
"I own the Doors of Perception."

I had no idea you were still alive, Aldous! 😂
As for me, I don't like telling anyone that kind of stuff. For one thing, number of doors really doesn't matter. I've seen investors with just a couple of doors that are really smart and worth listening to and people with dozens that were total knuckleheads. Aside from that, it's really just a form of braggadocio, designed to make you look important than you think you are. Finally, there are those who do it because it's a ploy to get you to trust their credibility and buy something else, which is what they're really selling - their guru program, management services, etc.

"I like to give my tenants gift cards and baskets for Christmas." I don't care if you own half of Cleveland, your landlord IQ is still in the profoundly special range...
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Twana RasoulBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Kate Zieverink number of doors doesn’t say anything about an investor. One investor in San Francisco or Los Angeles could have a 4 unit property that is worth more than another investors “50 doors” in another part of the country.
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Caleb Heimsoth
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Kate Zieverink I bought one share invitation homes for 27 dollars. They own 80,000 homes. I now own 80,000 doors.
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Will BarnardPro Member
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Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:
@Kate Zieverink I bought one share invitation homes for 27 dollars. They own 80,000 homes. I now own 80,000 doors.

That’s funny.

Back to the original question, why are you asking it? What does it matter? People toss out door counts, flip counts, etc all the time but most of it is just irrelevant. I have seen numerous conversations here and on member profiles showing “I have flipped 150 homes” but then you look closely and see these homes all sold for $50k or less. Sure 150 flips is quite an accomplishment and one should be proud of that, but we must also consider the rest of the missing facts and then render our decision based on all the facts, not just some arbitrary door count. Is the flipper who flips 40 homes a year valued at $50k for a total exit sales volume of $2,000,000 better or more experienced than the investor who flipped 2 qty $1M homes? The answer is it can’t be answered without knowing what the scope of work was, the total involvement was, and most important in my mind - total profit. Certainly the 40 home flipper has a lot of experience and likely ran into many more different experiences on 40 homes than the 2 home flipper did, but who made more at the end of the day is the key factor.
Same with owning doors. Buying into a syndication of a 300 unit apartment complex is certainly a good start, but your $100k investment into that does Not equate to owning 300 doors. In conversation, simply state what is real and you can’t go wrong. The rest is just fluff.
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