Buying a Residential Multifamily In NW Ohio

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Buying a Residential Multifamily In NW Ohio

Curtis Hummel
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote

Hello Everyone,

I was hoping some experienced investors could shed a little insight to help with my first purchase. I live in NW Ohio and after years of renting and saving my wife and I have decided that we will be buying a residential multifamily before our next lease needs to be renewed we would like to "house hack". I have been casually searching and it seems like most of the products I am interested in such as duplex's or quads have several for sale nearby, as well, sometimes on the same street. When I see this it makes me think that there is an oversupply in this particular area.  

Is this a fair assumption to make or are there other factors to consider?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
8y

@Zareth Gray you know we are talking about a a 4 unit apartment building, not a 3 bedroom house, right? 

@Engelo Rumora - let's see what spin I can put on the questions, like my investing strategy...I really just connect with buyers and sellers through networking and see what I can do to bring them value. There's no real master plan beyond the reality that once I have thrived in 43608, there really isn't a tenant I can't manage or a property I can't tackle.

That said there definitely are requests have had to I turn down...I have had investors approach me after they buy the wrong property, in the wrong place, in the wrong condition (really at any price) and I can't responsibly rehab and manage a turd. Those really need to be donated or sold on Craigslist (Detroit Avenue comes to mind).

I have had a bunch of investors come to me post-Sierra Realty (search the forums if you're unaware)...these properties are never what we expect them to be and the owners genuinely need help to avoid walking away from Toledo. I try to do my best to assist those who have been genuinely sold up river, the goal is to invest in Toledo profitably, responsibly and ethically. 

My biggest interest in a client is that they appreciate what I bring to the table vs their own ambition to run everything themselves. It's not going to work out if my company tells the tenant to pay or leave and they contact the owner and get to renegotiate. My goals are to be the best within my niche...I'm not interested in managing all of Ohio or even Lucas County. I am the best within North Toledo, I am also not trying to be the cheapest (call me after you've tried the cheapest in town and see how the return looks).

As to representing buyers for new properties I use an agent contract so if they buy a property off-MLS (which is where most of the deals are) then the buyer pays me directly. Any property I take over as agent I take responsibility for all the way through renovation and tenanting. A major caveat is that I have learned that I don't have enough hours in the day to run concurrent $30k renovations for investors so I am very sensitive to ensuring we are targeting quality properties for basic renovation, not targeting fire-damaged properties for massive rehab.

The natural conclusion of the buyer-agent rehab and rent concept is offering completed and performing rentals at a similar price range as the all-in rehabs so I do offer my regular group of investors a few Turn-Keys...properties that have been in my portfolio for a few years, typically rented Section 8 (which I feel are very stable investments), with my company continuing to manage so the tenants never feel a change in authority. I just value these on the upper end of the market, it allows me to personally keep taking on challenges. (There are no commission or fees on a property I personally own)

I'm not sure I've answered you well Engelo...when my phone rings I try to assist each client in their goals. I turn down more clients than I evict tenants so I'm either smart or stupid...but at the end of the day I try to be building the reputation of Toledo and responsible real estate investors.

[email protected]419-410-3836
LaPlante Real Estate
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  • Sharon Seiter
    Wooster, OH · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    I've been wondering about this too in the Columbus area, so I'm curious to hear the replies.  There are 3 duplexes within spitting distance of each other in one of the neighborhoods I'm interested in....

    1Reply
  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Hi Sharon,

    Thanks for your interest in my post. I'm glad someone shares my same interest and concern. Another consideration I had is typically investors like to buy within there "farm area" so when an investor is ready to sell perhaps they are ready to sell the whole farm. Just a thought, but hopefully we can get some experience on the post and get set off in the right direction. 

    Curtis

    1Reply
  • John HornerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Curtis Hummel:

    Hello Everyone,

    I was hoping some experienced investors could shed a little insight to help with my first purchase. I live in NW Ohio and after years of renting and saving my wife and I have decided that we will be buying a residential multifamily before our next lease needs to be renewed we would like to "house hack". I have been casually searching and it seems like most of the products I am interested in such as duplex's or quads have several for sale nearby, as well, sometimes on the same street. When I see this it makes me think that there is an oversupply in this particular area.  

    Is this a fair assumption to make or are there other factors to consider?

    Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you!

     This is awesome Curtis, I actually grew up in BG and still have a rental there!  Are you looking in BG specifically for MF or elsewhere in NorthWest Ohio?  Things are VERY town to town when you talking low population.  At lease BG has the college to keep demand up.  

    1Reply
  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Hi John,

    I live in Bowling Green right now, but I work in Toledo as an engineer so I'm really trying to find something  closer to my job, but still in a good location. I'm thinking anything around the Maumee, Holland, Perrysburg area would be more suitable, but anything closer to my job would be considered. I like BG, but I feel its has so much competition to really be worth it. I believe they just knocked down the old Pharm location to build more apartments.  

    0Reply
  • Adam A.
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2015 · 233 posts · 135 votes
    9y

    @Curtis Hummel All these 3 areas are the hottest and toughest to find anything especially multifamily. And, if any shows up, they are  non negotiable.  IMO, it's a little bit easier to find in a good area in Toledo.

    If you need a good experienced and an investor realtor, l have one I've been been dealing with for years.

    Good luck.

    0Reply
  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Adam,

    Thanks, for the insight it will be considered. I would also appreciate the realtor/investor lead as well. I would like to start getting out there and analyzing deals as soon as possible. 

    Thank you!

    0Reply
  • Andrew Johnson
    Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Curtis Hummel It sounds like a definite red flag. There are markets I've looked at (Hot Springs, AR) for example where there are a ton of multifamily properties for sale. The upside is that it drives down the price of the properties. Inventory is high, pricing competition is there, so you can get a "deal". However, I generally make the assumption that property owners aren't stupid. There will be cases where someone wants to sell for money, an inheritance, etc. but there aren't likely all in that boat. So if a lot of multifamily owners want out of a market...they know something you and I don't know. Another potential warning sign is if you see a lot of listings for multifamily properties in an area of different ages, conditions, etc. At that point you can't just write-off that renters 1.) can't afford to rent the new properties or 2.) only want to rent newer updates properties. Of course, this is only my anecdotal opinion.
    0Reply
  • Oren K.
    Rental Property Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 538 posts · 298 votes
    9y

    Curtis,

    To me, having several properties clustered for sale is more a signal of 'peak' pricing; Owners believing that they can get more now then later. The clustering does cause competition but as Adam points out, in a 'Hot' market, that may not mean much depending on what other reasons there may be for selling.

    More importantly to me would be the opportunity this represents. As they are 'clustered' (and presumably occupied) but still depending on their individual overall condition and how well they are managed, they present an excellent opportunity to gain direct insight into the local market dynamics; vacancy, operating expenses, etc.

    One strategy you could consider is the old 'worst' house on the street approach. Find the worst property (condition wise) and use that to negotiate a better deal. This gives you a value-add component to the purchase; renovate / upgrade it so you can get the best tenants at the best rents.

    Just make sure of your numbers. You will be living there but this is an investment at the end of the day.

    Good luck,

    Oren

    0Reply
  • Steven Steffel
    VP of Acquisitions and Sales · Columbus, OH · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 25 votes
    9y

    Hi @Adam A.

    Great to meet you here on BP. I'm also an investor in the Toledo area and always looking for some great talent and building win-win business relationships. 

    Would you mind messaging me who your trusted and experienced realtor is or make the introduction?

    Thanks,
    Steve

    0Reply
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    9y

    Hi Curtis-

    I went to Maumee High School so I know the area quite well and have faced your situation. 

    "Live where you want and invest where it makes cents"

    I live out in Monclova but own in Toledo, I recommend you consider this approach. 

    Toledo is hell on out of town investors but I would highly recommend it to anyone who lives here. Having the right team is essential. 

    Toledo just started PIN - Property Investor's Network a succession of the former Toledo REIA. Look us up and come to a meeting. All of us own in the area and know Toledo quite well.

    [email protected]419-410-3836
    LaPlante Real Estate
    WebsiteView Page
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  • Adam A.
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2015 · 233 posts · 135 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Fidler Just a clarification. Although I'm a charter member of the new PIN group, Toledo REIA is still alive and kicking with about 200 members.

    Either one is an excellent choice to join. Whether a novice or an experienced investor, you'll always learn something new.   

    1Reply
  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thank you all for taking the time to respond and providing the helpful information. These will all be considered as I continue my real estate journey. 

    @Andrew Fidler  I'm getting the idea that your stating that the real deals in Toledo are perhaps more in the C-class style MF that I personally would not want to live in?  BTW I just looked the PIN group and I see I just missed your most recent meet up two days ago. I will attend the next meeting you guys have available and perhaps Ill get to meet you, 

    @Adam A. I follow Toledo REIA on FB and I never seen any new meet up postings, but perhaps this isn't the best platform to keep up with the group?

    0Reply
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    9y

    @Curtis Hummel 

    Curtis this is about a 3 beer conversation. 

    I myself own in 43612 which is a good reliable investment neighborhood for reasonably savy and assertive landlords...I also own in 43608 which is the Wild West. I make some amazing returns but most can't stomach that area.

    I am happy to get together sometime and discuss the whole process but - in short - yes, I cannot bring myself to buy $100k 3 bedroom houses renting for $1200 a month when I buy $20k houses and rent them for $700. 

    For sure you want to be comfortable in your area and have a team in place to support you. I advise several owners in Toledo and would be happy to assist you as  well. 

    [email protected]419-410-3836
    LaPlante Real Estate
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Adam A.
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2015 · 233 posts · 135 votes
    9y

    @Curtis Hummel Nothing goes on their FB page. Here is the event page for Toledo REIA

    I don't think PIN has a website yet.

    0Reply
  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    @Andrew Fidler

    I will pay for a steak dinner and a whole night a beers if you would be willing to sit down and give me some ideas on where I should go with this. I would be even willing to help you with your properties as well. I work on Jackman and  Laskey 6 days a week so I'm always in the area and could be very helpful and save you that drive from Monclova. Just let me know when and where. 

    0Reply
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    9y

    I'm driving back from a jobsite in West Virginia for another couple hours. Call me. Always happy to chat about rentals

    [email protected]419-410-3836
    LaPlante Real Estate
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Anna Mills
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote
    9y

    All suburb or non Toledo areas (suburbs like the ones you mentioned are faster, hotter areas than the city school area. Investors do tend to buy in pockets when available so it is quite possible to be the same owner/seller even if different LLC's.

    Beware Toledo (not the suburbs) passed a new 'Lead Dust wipe Law' that mandates lab clearance before you can rent, mortgate, sell, lease, etc. The countdown started in Sept 2016 and needs full compliance by Sept 2017. That is another consideration/reason to stick to the areas you mentioned and not areas where you work. 

    I been In the Toledo Investor Market for more than 42yrs and hold 14 licenses and the greatest info & discounts to put together a team & educational information was by far at Toledo Real Estate Investors Assn. They meet the 2nd Tuesday monthly at Knights of Columbus Hall 4256 Secor Rd 6:30pm. They also have a FREE one-on-one Meeting the following night Wed 6pm at Big Boys, Secor Rd @ I-475 exit.

    Be glad to leave a FREE pass so you can meet and get educated with the 100+ local investors that attend every month. All meetings also go towards your "Professional Housing Provider" designation (same as a 2 yr business course in real estate investing). Oh!  and this April 11th (2nd Tues) we will have our annual Trade Fair  with 40-50 great business partners giving at least a full year of mammoth discounts to run your new business.

    1Reply
  • Adam A.
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2015 · 233 posts · 135 votes
    9y

    I just had my 1st property in Toledo lead inspected and certified for 6 years. The process is simple as long as the pre-cleaning is done correctly.  Communicating with tenants has to be the key to overcome the fear of this lead ordinance.

    0Reply
  • Hosnah Agban
    Investor · Doha, Qatar · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Adam A.:

    I just had my 1st property in Toledo lead inspected and certified for 6 years. The process is simple as long as the pre-cleaning is done correctly.  Communicating with tenants has to be the key to overcome the fear of this lead ordinance.

    Would like to know more about this. I want to proceed with a lead inspection for my section 8 to avoid any future hassles. Any good recommendations for to do inspection.

    Thank you in advance.

    0Reply
  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Curtis Hummel:

    Hello Everyone,

    I was hoping some experienced investors could shed a little insight to help with my first purchase. I live in NW Ohio and after years of renting and saving my wife and I have decided that we will be buying a residential multifamily before our next lease needs to be renewed we would like to "house hack". I have been casually searching and it seems like most of the products I am interested in such as duplex's or quads have several for sale nearby, as well, sometimes on the same street. When I see this it makes me think that there is an oversupply in this particular area.  

    Is this a fair assumption to make or are there other factors to consider?

    Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you!

     I think it's supply and demand. In Columbus there are areas where there are 10+ multifamily properties for sale at one time. That is just a snapshot in time. In some areas there is mostly multifamily and that's what is available. In other instances, like Hilliard or Dublin. There are almost no multifamily for sale but it's because there aren't a lot in that area. With looking at more of a trend (call it 3 months) you can get a better idea for what sells, what inventory looks like, what sits and doesn't sell, etc. 

    [email protected]786-494-6766
    Section 8 Launch52 Reviews
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  • Curtis Hummel
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    @Robert Ellis

    Thanks for the input! Correct me if I am wrong, so your stating that perhaps there is just a lot of multifamily for sale do to the the large supply of them, and it is not a representation of a shortage tenants due to the oversupply, or perhaps the owners know something I don't and they want to sell for that reason?

    I know this is a loaded question as it is a circumstantial, but if you have any advice on how I could answer this it would be appreciated. 

    Thanks!

    Curtis

    0Reply
  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    9y

    @Hosnah Agban, if you're property is Section 8, you don't need to worry about the new Lead Law. They're going after 1-4 unit rentals that aren't inspected by any other entity that are run down and unsafe. Or so they say. At any rate, you should be good.

    @Curtis Hummel, I agree this is a 3-beer conversation. I would recommend getting a book called "Landlording on Autopilot" by Mike Butler if you've never managed a rental before. If you're looking at a multifamily to live in one unit and rent the others, it's a great strategy that I've considered myself before, but you don't want a Tenant from Hell living above or next to you. Just a thought.

    Dave

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  • Mary Hill
    Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Aren't some of them close together but it's because they're owned by the same entity that wants to sell for whatever reason?  I know of these that are all by the same owners...  that could be why there are clusters.  Toledo Properties for Sale

    I'm interested in finding a similar situation and have been looking. Would prefer a duplex, to live in half and rent the other half.

    0Reply
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    8y

    @Mary Hill

    Hi Mary, those prices infer excellenct areas which leads me to suspect the return is going to be disappointed in the long run.

    My personal practice has been to live where I want and invest where it makes Cents! :)

     I’m happy to discuss further but profit in Toledo is in the class B & C neighborhoods. 

    [email protected]419-410-3836
    LaPlante Real Estate
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Mary Hill
    Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    @Andrew Fidler, thanks for the input!  Those I posted are 4 unit buildings and do seem like a good investment but I'm a total newbie to this and I'm really more interested in a simple duplex. Just planning for the future at this point :)  

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