Creative Investing in expensive city(Vancouver,British Columbia)

Creative Investing in expensive city(Vancouver,British Columbia)

Vancouver, British Columbia · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes

Hi All,

My wife and I bought our first property (townhouse) in 2016 in Richmond, BC where we are currently living with our 4-year-old son. We also bought another property (house in North Vancouver) in 2017 when our townhouse appreciated and gave us an opportunity to utilize the equity. The reason for buying the second property was to eventually move to the house when the family needs grow. The second property is not a cash-flow positive property. 

We both (me & my wife) are self-employed IT consultants (small business owners) and believe in saving and investing for future and building wealth. We are currently house hacking our primary residence (renting one room and bath in our townhome) and renting our second property entire house in North Vancouver.

I understand that it is difficult to find a cash flow positive property in cities like Newyork city, SFO and Vancouver, BC in Canada. 1 Bed Room Condo starts from 400 K + in Vancouver, BC; there is no way it will give positive cash flow or will follow 1% or 2 % rule even though the rent you get for 1 bedroom is close to 2 K CAD. 

I wanted to know from the members especially from super expensive real estate cities:

1.  What strategies do they adopt to invest in a cash flow negative properties? Is the equity because of appreciation is the only target for buy and hold properties in these expensive cities?

2. Is the BRRRR strategy to gain initially equity and then to reinvest using that equity a viable option if properties will not give you positive cash flow in the short term (3-5 years)?

3. What other strategies can be utilized to invest and to speed up the investing process in these expensive cities? 

Our target is to invest in real estate at least once in 1-2 year time span. We have saved and looking for another investment property under 500 K however it may just get us a 1 bedroom condo with negative cash flow.

Looking forward to hearing from the experiences of other investors who are successfully investing in the expensive real estate markets like Vancouver, British Columbia. 

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Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 2 votes
5y

Hello, currently from Winnipeg lived on Vancouver Island for 5 years growing up. I am trying to Brrrr here in Winnipeg with the goal of one day be able to move back to BC. I don't speak from experience but an idea may be to try airb&b your properties in BC, you can make far more when doing STR and possibly even turn the negative property into a cash positive one. Or invest here in Winnipeg, they are getting harder to find but you can still cashflow and Brrrr here in Winnipeg in C and D neighborhoods. All the best!

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  • Real Estate Agent · Abbotsford, BC · Member since 2017 · 78 posts · 9 votes
    5y

    @Rohit Bhagat Hi Rohit, my apologies for the late reply. Glad to hear you already own two properties in our market, that's amazing.

    You definitely won't find 1% or 2% rule properties out here but there are cashflow neutral or slight negative options out towards the valley (Chilliwack/mission/abbotsford).

    1. Most real estate investors in our market are either flipping luxury real estate or developers. (there are people who flip condo's but the margins are very small). For the most part, people here acquire quality real estate and hold for 5-10 years.

    2. I'm sorry to say but the BRRRR option isn't really feasible in our market as its next to impossible to get the margins needed to pull out equity in the refinance. I'm sure its do-able but dam well next to impossible.

    3. If you want to speed up the process, unless you want to try and be a builder or you have the capital to flip luxury real estate, you'd either have to try and BRRRR/flip remotely in other markets like Calgary, Winnipeg, Nova Scotia, etc etc. OR, scale your IT business with your wife and just try to acquire as many buy and hold properties as possible. ..Thats just my opinion, maybe someone in our market could prove me wrong, I don't know.

    Have a good one Rohit!

  • Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    5y

    Hello, currently from Winnipeg lived on Vancouver Island for 5 years growing up. I am trying to Brrrr here in Winnipeg with the goal of one day be able to move back to BC. I don't speak from experience but an idea may be to try airb&b your properties in BC, you can make far more when doing STR and possibly even turn the negative property into a cash positive one. Or invest here in Winnipeg, they are getting harder to find but you can still cashflow and Brrrr here in Winnipeg in C and D neighborhoods. All the best!

  • Vancouver, British Columbia · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    5y
    Thank you @Conor Kelly for your input.

    Originally posted by @Conor Kelly:

    @Rohit Bhagat Hi Rohit, my apologies for the late reply. Glad to hear you already own two properties in our market, that's amazing.

    You definitely won't find 1% or 2% rule properties out here but there are cashflow neutral or slight negative options out towards the valley (Chilliwack/mission/abbotsford).

    1. Most real estate investors in our market are either flipping luxury real estate or developers. (there are people who flip condo's but the margins are very small). For the most part, people here acquire quality real estate and hold for 5-10 years.

    2. I'm sorry to say but the BRRRR option isn't really feasible in our market as its next to impossible to get the margins needed to pull out equity in the refinance. I'm sure its do-able but dam well next to impossible.

    3. If you want to speed up the process, unless you want to try and be a builder or you have the capital to flip luxury real estate, you'd either have to try and BRRRR/flip remotely in other markets like Calgary, Winnipeg, Nova Scotia, etc etc. OR, scale your IT business with your wife and just try to acquire as many buy and hold properties as possible. ..Thats just my opinion, maybe someone in our market could prove me wrong, I don't know.

    Have a good one Rohit!

  • Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    5y

    @Rohit Bhagat I would second what @Conor Kelly said. 

    To expand on your points: 

    1: I actively invest in 1M markets and hit the 1% rule. I rent luxury style rentals though to dog friendly exec's who don't mind paying the extra money. Also rent furnished to oil/gas workers (they'll pay 15% higher market rent for furnished/dog friendly). 

    2) Yes, the BRRR method is to get equity, if the property has negative cash flow I'd look at other creative items around it. Rent trailer parking $100/mo, garage storage $400 a mo, etc.

    3) Rinse and repeat quicker (although flipping will just become your job like it did mine . . . it's stressful and time consuming - I swear I've been doing reno's on properties I own for 10 years outside of working full time and now raising a family).


    With a 500k PP if you are looking 1 - 2 years out don't hold you breath. 

    The best time to buy real estate, especially in our market, was last month. 

    Although it might not be the news you were looking for hope it helped. 

    Cheers,

  • Vancouver, British Columbia · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Thanks @Kris Macfarlane 

  • Whistler, British Columbia · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kris Mcfarlane:

    @Rohit Bhagat I would second what @Conor Kelly said. 

    To expand on your points: 


    With a 500k PP if you are looking 1 - 2 years out don't hold you breath. 

    The best time to buy real estate, especially in our market, was last month. 

    Although it might not be the news you were looking for hope it helped. 

    Cheers,

     @Kris Mcfarlane What about last month's was more ideal to purchase new properties? I'm also looking into another property purchase this year and undecided on which place to choose. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    4y

    @Cameron Robinson that was a joke. 

    The best time to buy RE is always last mo. because it is always going up . . .

    Now compared to 3 mo's ago it is insane, well more crazy . . . 

    Da roof, da roof, da roof is on fire . . . we don't need to water let this . . burn (well you get the idea . . . )

    Insane in our market is an understatement, if you aren't buying cash 5- 10%+ over asking (minimum) you aren't being taken seriously.

  • Whistler, British Columbia · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Kris Mcfarlane:

    @Cameron Robinson that was a joke. 

    The best time to buy RE is always last mo. because it is always going up . . .

    Now compared to 3 mo's ago it is insane, well more crazy . . . 

    Da roof, da roof, da roof is on fire . . . we don't need to water let this . . burn (well you get the idea . . . )

    Insane in our market is an understatement, if you aren't buying cash 5- 10%+ over asking (minimum) you aren't being taken seriously.

     Haha I see. Yea yesterday was always better than today or tomorrow for purchases. I recently just missed out on a deal and I found I was $5k shy. A little annoying.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Cameron Robinson:
    Originally posted by @Kris Mcfarlane:

    @Cameron Robinson that was a joke. 

    The best time to buy RE is always last mo. because it is always going up . . .

    Now compared to 3 mo's ago it is insane, well more crazy . . . 

    Da roof, da roof, da roof is on fire . . . we don't need to water let this . . burn (well you get the idea . . . )

    Insane in our market is an understatement, if you aren't buying cash 5- 10%+ over asking (minimum) you aren't being taken seriously.

     Haha I see. Yea yesterday was always better than today or tomorrow for purchases. I recently just missed out on a deal and I found I was $5k shy. A little annoying.

     There is always another deal . . . one time I missed a deal because I paid a phone bill later.
    If your financing isn't razor thin are you even leveraging yourself right?! 
    At $5k shy I feel like you should just hit up someone you know or a CC to get it done. 
    Unless it was 5k on the offer, because there was prob. more to it then just the 5k 

  • Whistler, British Columbia · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    4y

    @Kris Mcfarlane yea I just have to keep hunting for the next one. This particular offer was 5k less than the counteroffer of the first interested party. No way to know that it was so close, other factors could have been the possession date, etc. 

    Whatever the reason for the seller choosing the other offer it doesn't matter now.

    Onwards to more offers!

  • Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    4y
    Agree with you there. 

    I'm never the highest offer, but always the most creative. 

    Tenant turned landlord with open possession dates is our goto. 

    That and a fat dep. sweetens the offer. 

    Originally posted by @Cameron Robinson:

    @Kris Mcfarlane yea I just have to keep hunting for the next one. This particular offer was 5k less than the counteroffer of the first interested party. No way to know that it was so close, other factors could have been the possession date, etc. 

    Whatever the reason for the seller choosing the other offer it doesn't matter now.

    Onwards to more offers!

  • Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    4y
    I agree with this 100%! This should just be reposted when anyone asks a RE Q'. 

    Originally posted by @Conor Kelly:

    @Rohit Bhagat Hi Rohit, my apologies for the late reply. Glad to hear you already own two properties in our market, that's amazing.

    You definitely won't find 1% or 2% rule properties out here but there are cashflow neutral or slight negative options out towards the valley (Chilliwack/mission/abbotsford).

    1. Most real estate investors in our market are either flipping luxury real estate or developers. (there are people who flip condo's but the margins are very small). For the most part, people here acquire quality real estate and hold for 5-10 years.

    2. I'm sorry to say but the BRRRR option isn't really feasible in our market as its next to impossible to get the margins needed to pull out equity in the refinance. I'm sure its do-able but dam well next to impossible.

    3. If you want to speed up the process, unless you want to try and be a builder or you have the capital to flip luxury real estate, you'd either have to try and BRRRR/flip remotely in other markets like Calgary, Winnipeg, Nova Scotia, etc etc. OR, scale your IT business with your wife and just try to acquire as many buy and hold properties as possible. ..Thats just my opinion, maybe someone in our market could prove me wrong, I don't know.

    Have a good one Rohit!

  • Investor · Van Isle · Member since 2021 · 455 posts · 226 votes
    4y

    Problem with BRRRR in the Vancouver area, is that buyers are overlooking reno costs, just to get in. Anything making it to the MLS simply has too much competition from buyers. That leaves off market properties, where your time investment can pay off.

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