Hi BP rock stars,
I am aware that in Halifax NS, the tenant is not required to provide SIN. Under this condition, how do you usually conduct background and credit check if the applicant is not willing to disclose this information, and it seems that the law says we can not simply deny their application just because they are not willing to provide it.
Regards,
Yuan He
@Yuan He in lieu of the SIN, I’d ask for the name, number and address of the Applicant’s last three landlords, and contact them to discuss the Applicant’s tenant history.
I’d also contact Access Nova Scotia to inquire if they’d ever been reported to Residential Tenancies for a breach of contract or dispute with the landlord.
And finally, I’d inquire what their gross monthly take-home is, to ensure my rent is within the threshold of what they can afford (eg. 30% or less).
@Yuan He
You need as much info as possible. Current And former address(es), complete. Full name with middle initial. I always put SIN portion on the application but tell them “it’s optional but does assist to make sure I’m able to grab the correct persons credit history. And once we sign a lease it is not optional anymore”.
@Yuan He in lieu of the SIN, I’d ask for the name, number and address of the Applicant’s last three landlords, and contact them to discuss the Applicant’s tenant history.
I’d also contact Access Nova Scotia to inquire if they’d ever been reported to Residential Tenancies for a breach of contract or dispute with the landlord.
And finally, I’d inquire what their gross monthly take-home is, to ensure my rent is within the threshold of what they can afford (eg. 30% or less).
@Yuan He
Tenant verification services out of Langley I believe. Costs me $12 for a credit check showing score and any outstanding collections. Don’t need the sin but it does help.
@Yuan He
You need as much info as possible. Current And former address(es), complete. Full name with middle initial. I always put SIN portion on the application but tell them “it’s optional but does assist to make sure I’m able to grab the correct persons credit history. And once we sign a lease it is not optional anymore”.
Thanks so much for the information ! So "once we sign a lease it is not optional anymore" Does it mean that if we sign the lease, they have to provide SIN to you ?
@Yuan He in lieu of the SIN, I’d ask for the name, number and address of the Applicant’s last three landlords, and contact them to discuss the Applicant’s tenant history.
I’d also contact Access Nova Scotia to inquire if they’d ever been reported to Residential Tenancies for a breach of contract or dispute with the landlord.
And finally, I’d inquire what their gross monthly take-home is, to ensure my rent is within the threshold of what they can afford (eg. 30% or less).
Appreciate your sharing Andrew ! I can see that those information can be incredibly helpful. What if it is the case the tenant is a relatively new immigrant and does not have many previous landlord references ? How do you cope with that situation.
@Yuan He I am not an expert. And I certainly don’t suggest discriminating or not giving people a chance.
But I’m sure there are people who’d ask you straight up: does an applicant meet your criteria or not? If they aren’t able or willing to provide you the underwriting info you need from them, then why would they continue to be considered?
You sound like a “can-do” kind of person, looking for a way to make this work for everyone. So if you’re catering to a certain set of people (young tenants, immigrants to Canada) perhaps it would be good to evaluate THEIR particular abilities and motivations... for example, if they don’t have tenant history and can’t afford a large security deposit, perhaps asking them for a co-signer to the lease would be enough to enforce “good behaviour”.
When in doubt, I often find it good to simply ask the other what they think is reasonable. If the answer is unsatisfactory, I move on :)
@Yuan He
Yes I require it once they sign a lease agreement. And I straight out tell them it’s because I report payments (both in time and lates) to the credit bureau. And then I follow through with that because they sign my form giving me permission to do it.
@Yuan He
Tenant verification services out of Langley I believe. Costs me $12 for a credit check showing score and any outstanding collections. Don’t need the sin but it does help.
Awesome, definitely will try this !
@Yuan He I am not an expert. And I certainly don’t suggest discriminating or not giving people a chance.
But I’m sure there are people who’d ask you straight up: does an applicant meet your criteria or not? If they aren’t able or willing to provide you the underwriting info you need from them, then why would they continue to be considered?
You sound like a “can-do” kind of person, looking for a way to make this work for everyone. So if you’re catering to a certain set of people (young tenants, immigrants to Canada) perhaps it would be good to evaluate THEIR particular abilities and motivations... for example, if they don’t have tenant history and can’t afford a large security deposit, perhaps asking them for a co-signer to the lease would be enough to enforce “good behaviour”.
When in doubt, I often find it good to simply ask the other what they think is reasonable. If the answer is unsatisfactory, I move on :)
Great points ! What you said totally makes sense to me. You are right, since I'm new to this, I kinda have the "being-nice" attitude to everyone, trying to make something work out. Having heard what you said, I plan to make checklist and documents for prescreening and disclose all the criteria for potential applicants so everyone knows what to expect in this process.
@Yuan He
Yes I require it once they sign a lease agreement. And I straight out tell them it’s because I report payments (both in time and lates) to the credit bureau. And then I follow through with that because they sign my form giving me permission to do it.
I see, so to sum up your strategy:
In the application process,
you tell applicants that SIN is optional but suggested to provide.
If they provide it, everyone's happy and you do your check based on that,
If they choose not to disclose it, you do your check by other information they provided.
And then if they passed the check, you approve their application, both party want to sign the lease, you then REQUIRE that they provide SIN to you.
Are these generally your steps ? Just in theory because I'm sure it happens rarely, but what if they are not willing to provide you the SIN at the last step, and already you approved the application. Can you then just deny signing lease based on that ? Because I assume the law still says they are not obliged to give you the SIN. Or do you clarify that SIN is required condition for signing lease ?
Thanks for sharing !
I use a 3 party back ground company, I take a picture of the drivers license and send it to the back ground check .If they have no DL that may be a RED flag you need some form of ID .
I tell them the form is simple if you don’t fill out all the info it will delay the processing of the back ground check.
The cost for me $35 for credit, criminal back ground check I charge them the exact amount no trying to hustle a few pennies here .
I see you in the great north different laws etc...
Another option, is the potential tenants provide a current copy of their credit check which they can get from CreditKarma or Equifax. In Toronto, where the rental market is hot, many of the serious potential tenants, come prepared with their employment letter and credit report. If a potential tenant doesn't have a report, and doesn't want to give their SIN, you can direct them to CreditKarma or Equifax website. For new immigrants, you can ask for a guarantor, or a letter of reference. Good luck.
@Yuan He
It’s good to be nice, but don’t be to the point where they will take advantage of your kindness. Always run it like a business, if there’s red flags, move on to the next application. Don’t let people pay late, place late fees. Im very new to this as well and I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos and podcasts and they say they wanted to be nice and it ended up being a costly lesson. I’m also in Atlantic Canada. Be safe and best of luck!
I use a 3 party back ground company, I take a picture of the drivers license and send it to the back ground check .If they have no DL that may be a RED flag you need some form of ID .
I tell them the form is simple if you don’t fill out all the info it will delay the processing of the back ground check.
The cost for me $35 for credit, criminal back ground check I charge them the exact amount no trying to hustle a few pennies here .
I see you in the great north different laws etc...
Yeah, we are not allowed to ask for application fee here. The screening cost has to be an out of pocket expense for the landlord.
There is a mix of advice above ... some of it poor.
In Canada, you may ask an applicant to provide their SIN on a tenancy application, but, legally, you cannot make it a mandatory requirement - not on the application nor when a lease is signed.
On our application we clearly indicate that providing their SIN is optional. We also advise the applicant that without their SIN number there is a risk we will not be able to pull their credit history. In reality, unless the applicant has a very common name (i.e. John Smith), if they provide their residential addresses for the past 3-5 years you will usually be able to find the correct credit profile.
You should always pull your credit reports independently. We use RentCheck and TVS to pull credit histories in Canada and the U.S.A. There have recently been some third-party providers start-up in Canada which will provide screening services - I have not evaluated any of them; they didn't exist when we started and performing our own verification process runs smoothly. Do not accept a credit report from an applicant - they are too easily doctored.
@Yuan He
You’ve got it with one exception, they get told when they are filling out their app that “SIN is not required but does make it easier to ensure I pull correct persons credit. I will get your SIN from you when we sign the lease but not until then. We use it along with this form to report your payment history and help you build credit.” If they object to providing it I tell them I may not be able to report on time payments and ask why they would object to that.
Following that conversation I’ve never had anyone not provide it. It’s on the quick reference (front) page of my lease. You cannot legally require a tenant to provide it, but they’ve never refused. If they left that blank, I would follow up a week later and ask for it. At some point if they keep ducking it you’re stuck.
@Yuan He
Essentially I treat this the same way as I treat the lease agreement reading $200 higher than advertised and using an instant rebate for on time rent. They get told they’ll need to provide it well before they are asked for it, and if they raise a stink they get questioned. If things don’t add up, makes me think hard about them. I’m fortunate to provide a product that garners multiple applications in a short time frame. And they know that. So it hasn’t been an issue. They also get updated every time payments are reported (good or bad, but I’ve only had 2 lates the last few years).
@Yuan He
You’ve got it with one exception, they get told when they are filling out their app that “SIN is not required but does make it easier to ensure I pull correct persons credit. I will get your SIN from you when we sign the lease but not until then. We use it along with this form to report your payment history and help you build credit.” If they object to providing it I tell them I may not be able to report on time payments and ask why they would object to that.
We've been reporting rent payments for years, even in instances where we do not have the tenants SIN.
@Roy N.
I understand, and yes you still can, but no I don’t feel like I need to assure them of that fact. If I’m gonna trust them in a $400,000 house I expect them to trust me with certain things as well. I’ve been fortunate enough not to have anyone flat refuse at lease signing but if that was the ONLY red flag I’m sure I would let it go. The reason I start that conversation even prior to the viewing is so that neither of us wastes our time like that. .. even though it my money and my on site staff’s time I suppose
There is a mix of advice above ... some of it poor.
In Canada, you may ask an applicant to provide their SIN on a tenancy application, but, legally, you cannot make it a mandatory requirement - not on the application nor when a lease is signed.
On our application we clearly indicate that providing their SIN is optional. We also advise the applicant that without their SIN number there is a risk we will not be able to pull their credit history. In reality, unless the applicant has a very common name (i.e. John Smith), if they provide their residential addresses for the past 3-5 years you will usually be able to find the correct credit profile.
You should always pull your credit reports independently. We use RentCheck and TVS to pull credit histories in Canada and the U.S.A. There have recently been some third-party providers start-up in Canada which will provide screening services - I have not evaluated any of them; they didn't exist when we started and performing our own verification process runs smoothly. Do not accept a credit report from an applicant - they are too easily doctored.
Thanks Roy for these great advices and clarifications. Yeah I'll definitely borrow your ideas for doing screening using some of the screening services out there. One last question, do you actually give applicant an application form to fill out or you will just straight out collect those information directly through emails or other ways of communication ?
@Yuan He
Essentially I treat this the same way as I treat the lease agreement reading $200 higher than advertised and using an instant rebate for on time rent. They get told they’ll need to provide it well before they are asked for it, and if they raise a stink they get questioned. If things don’t add up, makes me think hard about them. I’m fortunate to provide a product that garners multiple applications in a short time frame. And they know that. So it hasn’t been an issue. They also get updated every time payments are reported (good or bad, but I’ve only had 2 lates the last few years).
Thanks Kris for the clarification ! What screening services you use ? I am looking at singlekey right now.
Thanks Roy for these great advices and clarifications. Yeah I'll definitely borrow your ideas for doing screening using some of the screening services out there. One last question, do you actually give applicant an application form to fill out or you will just straight out collect those information directly through emails or other ways of communication ?
We provide all those who enquire a copy of our application. Most enquiries arrive via e-mail these days and we have an information package on the property along with a PDF copy of the application sent in response. We also provide an on-line (via DocuSign) version of our application - I prefer this approach as mandatory fields cannot be skipped.
In rare instances we still provide paper copies to candidates.
@Roy N.
I understand, and yes you still can, but no I don’t feel like I need to assure them of that fact. If I’m gonna trust them in a $400,000 house I expect them to trust me with certain things as well. I’ve been fortunate enough not to have anyone flat refuse at lease signing but if that was the ONLY red flag I’m sure I would let it go. The reason I start that conversation even prior to the viewing is so that neither of us wastes our time like that. .. even though it my money and my on site staff’s time I suppose
Information security and privacy is my "other" profession ... I've spent decades educating folks to be more critical of disclosing personal / sensitive information, so it would be a little hypocritical - or, in the case of a person's SIN, illegal - to insist otherwise ;-)
I would have been a tenant candidate who would not have disclosed his SIN.
@Roy N.
I’ll have to wait till we cross that bridge, but I feel like I’ll probably still rent to you Roy.
Hi Yuan,
If you were wondering about some of the third party providers available in Canada that @Roy N. referenced above, we've recently begun using Naborly for tenant screenings and have had a good experience thus far. They provide a copy of the applicant's equifax report / verify income documentation, etc.
I will note that you still absolutely need to do your own verification and checks to determine suitability for tenancy (do not base your decision solely on the score that the program generates on an application), but Naborly does a decent job of collecting an applicant's info and providing some helpful analysis points on their application.
Cheers,